Abhay IFV from India

chinawhite you are clearly putting on a mask of ignorance to prevent yourself from acknodwledging the truth.

This is not about any hindu-times this is about wikipedia and the official indian government press relaese and the official DRDO website.

And that is the same wikipedia that you have quoted to mirza on his other thread.

Your claim that India does not have any freedom of press as you go on to claim is nothing short of idiocy. India have a much more free press imo than the US press if not an as free press. Infact freedom of press has been given sanction in India's constitution. Just because china have a state controlled media that misinforms its people and spills propaganda and you are jelous of India's free media doesnt mean that you can spill your nonsensical rubbish about India.

And the Lavi and the J-10 is an open secret the world over. And what point are you trying to make by saying that if i accept that Israel have not involved in the Lavi programme you will say that the Kanchan is good armour ?? ...well let me tell you that Israel have officially acknowledged that they supplied the Lavi's technologies to China for its J-10.

Read this :

David Lari, director general of Israel's Ministry of Defense, acknowledged in an Associated Press interview that "some technology on aircraft" had been sold to China and that some Israeli companies may not have "clean hands".

atimes.com...

If asking me to say that the J-10 is not based on the Lavi is the sole purpose of your making silly excuses to pursue a needless argument, then i must admit that you have disappointed me and you disgust me.

And even the data in the tripod homepage that you repeatedly post implies that the Arjun's armour is one of the best. Those fogures give the extent to which a bullet penitrates into a tank. Now those figures happen to be on of the lowest for the Arjun. That means that identical bullets fired from the same range will penitrate less into an Arjun (& M1A1) than any other tank. This clearly implies that the Arjun's armour-the layer that stops the bullets from penitratiang into the tank works far more effectively than any other tank (like the Type-98) . That implies that the Arjun's Kanchan armour is one of the best out there.

Understand one thing : The less a bullet penitrates into a tank, the more effective its armour is.

go check out the list yourself >> members.tripod.com...

And since you follow the data on that site, here is something for you from the same place :

Indian 120mm bullets penitrate tungsten 650mm at 2km

Chinese 120mm bullets penitrate tungsten 550mm at 2km

And i must recall Daedalus's signature : Never challenge an idiot to an argument. They'll pull you down to their level and beat you with experience.. and rest my case. You can go on and on and on saying that you accept wikipedia for all articles except those that say good things about India or you can say that you will discard all the good & true things written be the Indian media and accept only the ones that say bad things about India. The bottomline is that none of your ignorant baseless and shameless posts will change anything about the Kanchan armour...but nice try though.

[edit on 11-7-2005 by Stealth Spy]

Originally posted by Stealth Spy

And the Lavi and the J-10 is an open secret the world over. And what point are you trying to make by saying that if i accept that Israel have not involved in the Lavi programme you will say that the Kanchan is good armour ?? ...well let me tell you that Israel have officially acknowledged that they supplied the Lavi's technologies to China for its J-10.

im not even talking about tech i am talking about the airframe.


even you sources said that the J-10 uses some tech on the LAVI. last time i checked 35%of the cost of the LAVI is imported parts. but the chiense manufracture their own

And even the data in the tripod homepage that you repeatedly post implies that the Arjun's armour is one of the best. Those fogures give the extent to which a bullet penitrates into a tank. Now those figures happen to be on of the lowest for the Arjun. That means that identical bullets fired from the same range will penitrate less into an Arjun (& M1A1) than any other tank. This clearly implies that the Arjun's armour-the layer that stops the bullets from penitratiang into the tank works far more effectively than any other tank (like the Type-98) . That implies that the Arjun's Kanchan armour is one of the best out there.

yeah ok the M1A2SEP leopard 2 challenger all have the highest armour but the arjun has better. come on dont kid yourself


M1A2
Turret: 940-960 Glacis:560-590
Lower front hull:580-650

Leopard 2 A6
Turret: 920-940
Glacis: 620

Challenger 2
Turret: 920-960 Glacis:660
Lower front hull: 590

Arjun
Turret: 500-570
Glacis: 410

T-59D ERA
Turret: 520
Glacis: 490

Indian 120mm bullets penitrate tungsten 650mm at 2km

Chinese 120mm bullets penitrate tungsten 550mm at 2km

theres a problem with that. the chinese is 70s tech whilst the 120mm indian is a brand new design



And i must recall Daedalus's signature :Never challenge an idiot to an argument. They'll pull you down to their level and beat you with experience.

i said that.....

I can't believe a thread about a tank can get so heated.

Please remain civil towards each other.

If it remains heated I'll close this thread.

Thankyou.

john bull this is a average discussion between me and stealthspy. we are still on topic discussing the quailty of this new indian armour which some indians claim to be superior to the M1A2 armour

Not some Indians but the official Government of India press release, and the Indian Defence Research Development Organisation and wikipedia and by international and Indian journalists all of which i have quoted and posted with links; and chinawhite in his attempt to get me to say that the chinese J-10 is not based on the Lavi has converted this thread into questioning India's constitutional provisions !!!

and the same newspaper that he discredits here for saying good things about India.....he is using it to post bad stuff about India on the other thread that he has resurfaced.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

is this bias or not ???

[edit on 11-7-2005 by Stealth Spy]

Originally posted by Stealth Spy

Understand one thing : The less a bullet penitrates into a tank, the more effective its armour is.

now you cant even read numbers making things up as you go.

you can clearly see that the M1 has less armour than a M1A1.

In many cases the measured LOS armour thickness will differ from the protection estimated above, often that is because of the incorporation of exotic compounds that offer better protection than an equivalent thickness of RHA.

The T-98 already has better armour with its exotic armour than a abram anyway.

T-98
Turret: 700
Glacis: 450

T-98G
Turret: 845
Glacis: 450-630

Al Khalid
Turret: 645
Glacis: 435-455

Arjun
Turret: 500-570
Glacis: 410


as you can see a arjun is less protected than a Al Khalid which is pakistans future tank. wow the arjun is suck a good tank. 30years over due and still worthless

Originally posted by chinawhite
yeah ok the M1A2SEP leopard 2 challenger all have the highest armour but the arjun has better. come on dont kid yourself


M1A2
Turret: 940-960 Glacis:560-590
Lower front hull:580-650

Leopard 2 A6
Turret: 920-940
Glacis: 620

Challenger 2
Turret: 920-960 Glacis:660
Lower front hull: 590

Arjun
Turret: 500-570
Glacis: 410

T-59D ERA
Turret: 520
Glacis: 490

And even this data that you post implies that the Arjun's armour is one of the best. Those fogures give the extent to which a bullet penitrates into a tank. Now those figures happen to be on of the lowest for the Arjun. That means that identical bullets fired from the same range will penitrate less into an Arjun (& M1A1) than any other tank. This clearly implies that the Arjun's armour-the layer that stops the bullets from penitratiang into the tank works far more effectively than any other tank (like the Type-98) . That implies that the Arjun's Kanchan armour is one of the best out there.

Understand one thing : The less a bullet penitrates into a tank, the more effective its armour is.

And is there any rule by which Indian developed tech must be inferior to others ????????????????

[edit on 11-7-2005 by Stealth Spy]

Stealth spy and dadu you must understand that china white's main motive is locked this thread by arguing unnecessarily.

i am requesting both of you stop giving answer to mot.-fuc chines because i don’t want this topic locked .

This request has been also extend to my other thread and all of your thread did not you notice how your thread had been closed because of Mot.fuc.chines

Just ignore his post.

IGNORENCE ACCEPTED: up:

And you china white don’t think you win with your incoherent posting. You just bring it down standard of posting here

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
Not some Indians but the official Government of India press release, and the Indian Defence Research Development Organisation and wikipedia and by international and Indian journalists all of which i have quoted and posted with links; and chinawhite in his attempt to get me to say that the chinese J-10 is not based on the Lavi has converted this thread into questioning India's constitutional provisions !!!

blah blah blah a indian offical report is worthless unless a third party comfires this.

the involment of the LAVI in the J-10 has a offical israeli denial and a offical chinese denial.

how is a chinese or israeli denial not worth a indian one

your a joke

Originally posted by Stealth Spy


And is there any rule by which Indian developed tech must be inferior to others ????????????????

yes exactly what i am saying. i look at the facts and the facts tell me its worthless

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
Understand one thing : The less a bullet penitrates into a tank, the more effective its armour is.

T-34/85
90

M1
Turret: 400 Glacis: 400

M1IP / M1A1
Mantle & Turret: 450 Glacis:350-490
Lower front hull:430-470

M1A1HA
Turret: 660-680 Glacis:560--590
Lower front hull:580-630

M1A1HC/M1A1HA+/M1A2
Turret: 880-900 Glacis:560-590
Lower front hull:580-650

M1A2 SEP
Turret: 940-960 Glacis:560-590
Lower front hull:580-650

according to you a T-34 has more protection than a abram

Originally posted by mirza2003
Stealth spy and dadu you must understand that china white's main motive is locked this thread by arguing unnecessarily.

i am requesting both of you stop giving answer to mot.-fuc chines because i don’t want this topic locked .

This request has been also extend to my other thread and all of your thread did not you notice how your thread had been closed because of Mot.fuc.chines

Just ignore his post.

IGNORENCE ACCEPTED: up:

And you china white don’t think you win with your incoherent posting. You just bring it down standard of posting here

Understood everything you suggested to the other members except the above. What Mot.fuc.chines mean?

Dallas

chinawhite it is you who posted this tripod homepage and its a pity u could'nt inerpret its results....stop spreading ignorance.

Originally posted by Dallas

Understood everything you suggested to the other members except the above. What *******chines mean?

Dallas

************
cencor that it

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
chinawhite it is you who posted this tripod homepage and its a pity u could'nt inerpret its results....stop spreading ignorance.

i interpeted the results correctly it is you who thinks the lower the amount the better it is.

Originally posted by mirza2003

Dallas

************
cencor that it

cencor that it to

lol cant spell

Originally posted by chinawhite

yes but americans are believeable hindu times is not.

i can show you a offical chiense website on tibet.

you acknowledge the fact that the LAVI has nothing do do with the J-10 because of offical israeli denials and i will acknowledge the arjun

claiming that the government press release does not satisfy you is just like saying that all those CIA links you have posted are woth nothing.

india might have demoracy bbut its diffinently not at the american stage of free speech.

and this knowledge stems from the many years u have spent in India??? u have absolutely no idea about the conditions in this country do u! i mean wht a statement to make!

let me assure u tht the indian media is one of the most free, if not THE most free media in the world. i did in a another thread explain to u somethin about the reasons why india and china have developed so dofferently. one major reason for this is because of the indian media

the media in India is typically extremely critical of the government and its actions. they pounce upon every little opportunity to crtitcise the government. if the government does not do somethin then it is blamed. if it does somethin then it does too little. even if it does what it was supposed to, it does it too late. that is the typical role of the indian media, afterall it maked for good news doesnt it.

the indian media holds more sway in indian politics than even the opposition in parliament. infact the opposition relies heavily on the media for its issues. the media is pro-active while the opposition is reactive.

so please do not make statements about things u have absolutely no idea about.

lastly i think it deserves special mention that the media's favorite whipping boy is the Defence Ministry. jus the number of scams and irregularities that are regularly unearthed by the media is proof enough of this

I recall these words of wisdom from daedalus's signatureNever challenge an idiot to an argument. They'll pull you down to their level and beat you with experience.. and will stop it here.


And congratulations to chinawhite for miserably failing to discredit the Kanchan armour and the Indian media

BOTTOMLINE : THE KANCHAN IS ONE OF THE BEST ARMOUR THERE IS and it wont be any less than it is because some ignorant & shameless poster fails to believe this because of inherant ignorance and jeolusy that India developed such an armour.

Congratulations again

(the last laugh is always the best laugh)

[edit on 11-7-2005 by Stealth Spy]