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Mourning

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posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 04:43 PM
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After reading a few posts on this board, primarily theRiverGodess' oobe experiences, and then the follow up reading including the Robert Bruce explanation, I am wondering what people think the reason for mourning is.

To me there seems to be no real evolutionary explanation as to the deep soul destroying feeling that is losing someone close to you. I appreciate that it does enforce the bonds of others close to you, but that still to me has no grounds in Darwinian evolution.

Perhaps the reason for mourning could be for the transfer of energy to the person that you are mourning. It is a seriously weakening time to the mourner, so perhaps there is a more spiritual reason why?

edit - spelling

[edit on 20-6-2005 by Strodyn]




posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 04:45 PM
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Hmm..*skeptic out to lunch, be back...whenever*

Another emotional technicality....



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 04:50 PM
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maybe mourning is the mere fact of unbalance hormones..thats y they have those uppers and downers..



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 04:57 PM
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Well ask yourself this: Who is the one who is mourning and thus feeling the possible negative energy? And what does the person you are mourning about feels when he/she is for example dead?



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 05:09 PM
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Ok perhaps I need to rephrase my post into a few different opinions.

I am suggesting for one that there is no real evolutionary reason for the pain of losing someone.

I am therefore suppositioning that the mourning process is used as a transfer of sometype of energy from the mourner to the mournee (I made that word up, it may exist, but I am sure you understand.)

Reasons for the transfer of energy - possibly to assist in the transfer from this realm to the next, for reason that I tbh have no experience.

I have no doubt that there is a massive hormonal change, that imo is to be expected, but I dismiss this as being a consequence of the energy transfer....much the same as I dismiss the fact that peoples brain waves change during an oobe. It is a consequence that can be measured, but does not actually disprove the oobe. It just shows that a change in brain pattern happens....well I would be very surprised if that did not.



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 06:13 PM
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Is there an evolutionary reason for Love?

I think you are looking at it from the wrong end. We mourn because we Love, we Love so we can reproduce (or because we have been born, ie our parents), and when we loose that Love we mourn.

I do believe that there is somewhere to go after death but I think the reasons we mourn are obvious. It is not about who we lost, it is about what we ourselves have lost, tangible real things.

Interesting idea you have though, points for original thinking.


A.T
(-)



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 06:18 PM
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I would say there is evolutionary reason for the "pain of losing someone".--If there wasnt a strong bond made, you wouldnt have a clan, or a pack, and survival chances would diminish significantly. The bond would make you more likely to fight FOR a member if they were threatened instead of leaving him behind. The thought of leaving one behind must be one of pain, unthinkable, a complete catastrophe. Pain is primordial, it is our best defense to losing our fingers, and our family. I think it makes sense, and we would probably evolve past it, if the human race were to remain alive long enough. Now that a human can be self sustaining with his wits, he may not need the pain of loss.

I think when a clansmen would lose a member to another clan, he would become stronger, and less likely to lose another, from the lesson of pain from the first. He lost a valuble member and the pain would linger as a reminder necessary for survival. Just my opinion.

Even if that member were a burden, there must be something to keep you from abandoning him,...As a mother with child usually will die to defend it, which propogates the race.

[edit on 20-6-2005 by xxKrisxx]



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 06:37 PM
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That does make a lot of sense.


The reinforcement of the family 'bonds' due to the loss of someone I suppose is something that would have been relevant when things were primarily determined by oneself, and even though today most things are beyond our control, it has not been long since the above was the case.

I crave for a deeper understanding of the human consiousness. I believe that there is a lot more than we are aware of, from first hand and referred experience. I am however incredibly aware of how ignorant I am of such matters.

The love point is the reason for mourning, without it no one would mourn...so perhaps the reason for loving is the answer.

Thanks for your posts, exactly the sort of response I wanted to read.

My soul and/or brain still struggles though to understand...perhaps we are not meant to know. Frustrating but so very intriguing.


[edit on 20-6-2005 by Strodyn]



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 06:37 PM
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Some what like xxKrissxx said.....perhaps mourning is a response to losing a member of our 'gene pool', an out growth of that 'instinct for preservation' of that gene pool....similar to the instinct to fight for offspring, when they are threatened.

Also on a spiritual level, the need to mourn, might be connected to praying for the soul of the departed. Don't some believe that prayer aids the journey of the soul to heaven? The more mourners, the easier the trip?



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 08:37 PM
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I seem to remember a show about a wolf pack. And, if I recollect correctly, wolves "mourn" when one of theirs dies.

I had a dog that I rescued from a cruel owner. The dog bonded closely to me. When I was sick she would lay by my side. Isn't that on a similar emotion as mourning the dead?

We do mourn our pets, s they are part of our pack.
People have been known to mourn non-living things. Alcohol comes to mind.

I don't know about any energy transfer. I think we just miss what we love, what we have been close to.



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 10:08 PM
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Mourning is a lot of different emotions tied into one word. Regret, loss, saddness, anger, many things. It goes through stages, until it is complete. I think mourning simply comes with intelligence and self awareness. Someone asked about energy transference and mourning. Its not quite like that, but close. When you mourn, the other who has passed, does feel it, and they grieve for those living,some who hurt more than they should. This is why there is after death contact, most of the time it is to add closer to a mourning person, sometimes years after. Just my 2 cents



posted on Jun, 21 2005 @ 03:36 AM
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mourning is the process to let go of the physical aspect and to realise the loss of that individual for the rest of this life. it's also combined with a lot of emotions such as darkblade said. emotions that are usually about unfinished things. Such as you still had to say sorry for something or were still angry at him/her or whatever.

it's nothing special. induced by certain chemicals in your body.

in our family we mourn for the loss of the physical container, but that's less then a day. after that we celibrate the death because it's a new beginning for the soul. our ceremonies and such are pretty cheerfull.

[edit on 21-6-2005 by Enyalius]



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 06:26 PM
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it's nothing special. induced by certain chemicals in your body.


Bravo!

However, mourning is the emotional loss and emotional repair associated with loss, so blame the subconcious for this temporary weakness.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 06:31 PM
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Thats actually a cool theory... I mean, who knows? When your mourning for someone you are extremely drained of energy... Where did it all go?



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by Raideur



it's nothing special. induced by certain chemicals in your body.


Bravo!

However, mourning is the emotional loss and emotional repair associated with loss, so blame the subconcious for this temporary weakness.


I'm not sure I'd class mourning as a weakness - quite the opposite in fact.
To ignore, or hide, or try to disguise mourning, would (and does) lead to much more severe problems.

Elephants also mourn, for what it's worth - perhaps not in the same emotional context as humans, but still far beyond most animals.

It's an essential process, and it's a natural process.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
I don't know about any energy transfer. I think we just miss what we love, what we have been close to.


True. I have mourned deeply for the passing of people I was not related to, just cared alot about.
My son mourns desperately for his Pokemon cards when I take them away for some infraction on his part.......so I think we just miss what we love, be it person, place or thing.

I believe funerals and mourning are for those left behind, as a type of closure. I do not think it aids the spirit moving on in any way.
I do not attend funerals, prefering to remember them as they were, vibrant and alive. I do NOT want to see them as a dead stiff pale body, so I avoid funerals. I will go to wakes, or celebrations in honor of the life they lived......as long as the body is garenteed (sp?) to NOT be there.

[edit on 22-6-2005 by theRiverGoddess]



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 06:46 PM
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Oh, people can survive and function without mouring. I wish I were one of them, but most of them being "disturbed" or sociopaths. Im sure that it is physically possible to influence the brains chemistry to prevent mourning, and Im sure the military has done research into such a field.

Someone without any remorse is very effecient.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 06:48 PM
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And, I'd think, very lonely.

Why suppress emotions?




posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 06:53 PM
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Because they are the most illogical and utterly senseless part of the entire universe. Emotions are the only thing keeping us from seeing clear and totally unclouded views of the world through a concious and fully, and unfettered self aware mind.

They do nothing but make us conflict with ourselves and flip back totally insane love to complete blind rage of destruction.

www.ignorancedenied.com...

Best bashing of emotions to my name.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 08:25 PM
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Raideur,

I respectfully disagree


Emotions don't have to control us, nor do they have to destroy us. It is possible to feel emotions and remain a healthy, productive and "clear minded" individual.

The problem tends to be when we do let the emotions take over.

But it's not as black and white, to me - there is a lot of middle ground...and both extremes are unhealthy.

S'all about balance




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