Man Exists. Why Does That Mean God Does?

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posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 02:42 PM
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3 Steps You have to take before reading this.

1. Forget Your Religion.
2. Stop Thinking We Are The Middle of the Universe.
3. Don't Instantly Go on the Defensive

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Alright, if there are an infinite amount of stars, solar systems, galaxies, you don't think that one planet in one solar system could be perfect for sustaining life (as we know it)?

Say it takes X + Y + Z to create life. There are millions and millions of galaxies, 1 system in a galaxy eventually has to be the right configuration.

Solar System 1: A - X - Z = G
Solar System 2: X + A + Z = R
Solar System 3: X + Y + F = H
Solar System 4: X + Y + W = P
Solar System 5: X + Y + Z = Life

The equation has no real value, but in the infinate amount of scenarios, mathematically you would eventually run into the anomoly that gives life.

I hate to use this example, but remember the Matrix? How Neo was one that mathematical anomoly that was just perfect? That is no different then our planet.

Billions and billions of stars / systems, eventually 1 has to have the perfect alignment / orbit, whatever you want to call it. We think we are so special, but if you think about it, it was bound to happen eventually.

Our planet exists because of luck, it isnt special, we are not special. Just because our world and solar system is "perfect" doesnt mean there is a god.

[edit on 20-6-2005 by Bane Of Your Existence]




posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 02:56 PM
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Ok Bane,
By the numbers there is a strong possbility that life is out there on different worlds. Most scientists are starting to agree with this.
Does that exclude the existence of a God or other omnipotent power? No, but it does not prove the God exists either.
If what I think you are getting at is that there is life out there that it excludes the existence of God, I believe that it may actually enhance this as it can go to show just how powerful such a deity would be.
It is only the ignorance of man that denies life (souls, Chi, etc.) only can exist in humans.



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by Bane Of Your Existence
1. Forget Your Religion.
2. Stop Thinking We Are The Middle of the Universe.
3. Don't Instantly Go on the Defensive


You must realize that disregarding the list you mentioned is not going to happen.



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 03:00 PM
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Jonna,
Why would that be?
Not everyone is a die-hard bible thumper which is the target audience that I think that Bane is going for.
There are a few out there that can discuss such a topic without goining off the deep end



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 03:07 PM
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yes out of the billions and zillions of 'equations' one has to have the perfect combo for life.... and thats us.
so the odds of another planet with life is pretty likely but it could be a zillion light years away. and what does the thread title have to do with your post, you didnt really explain that. are you saying god is created by man just for something to believe in and that we find life somewhere else in the universe it disproves god? it wouldnt really disprove god, but it could disprove alot of religions, of course they would just get defensive and say 'uh..nno uh we said god created everyything and uh all humans and aliens are equal' but still if there is a god(which i am very skeptical about) and he can do what everyone says he can, then he created that other life, and like kenshiro said it would just add to showing gods power and what not.



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 03:13 PM
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To put is simply and without using religious tones...

So, we have an earth that could be the result of a freak mathematical phenomenon, not from a benevolent creator. That the staples for life and existence just happened to stumble upon each other at the right time in the right place...

And if that freak occurence can happen once, why can't it happen twice, or bilions of times over considering the infinite vastness of the universe? So...the trillion dollar question would be:

Where did those "staples for life" come from?



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 03:54 PM
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Staples?

I dont think there are any real staples for life. Maybe for our planet there are certain ones pertaining to US.

But if you think about it, oxygen and water, are just gases.

There is no reason to think that life cant thrive in a methane rich environment or even a sulphur rich evvironment. The staples of life are oxygen and water because........thats our planet.

But i know what you mean about staples over all, but maybe the planet itself is alive, and we are just another form of vegetation? I DONT KNOW. NO ONE CAN ANSWER THAT..... lol


the vegetation thing didnt answer it.... AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH but that doesnt prove there is a mighty diety.

[edit on 20-6-2005 by Bane Of Your Existence]



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by mpeake
To put is simply and without using religious tones...

So, we have an earth that could be the result of a freak mathematical phenomenon, not from a benevolent creator. That the staples for life and existence just happened to stumble upon each other at the right time in the right place...

And if that freak occurence can happen once, why can't it happen twice, or bilions of times over considering the infinite vastness of the universe? So...the trillion dollar question would be:

Where did those "staples for life" come from?


And what makes you certain we are not a simulation?



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 04:20 PM
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I'll take a stab at it...

Man exists - agreed.

Why does that mean God does? It doesn't have to.

I would state that by merely focusing on one concept of God is a disservice. The God I am assume you mean is the old dude, white hair, ornery fellow. ALways sending floods, and death and smiting people at random. The God that christianity talks about - a personal god.

There are many people who don't beleive in a personal God like that, but beleive in a God. IMO, God was never a person or anything like that wasn't it Moses that said that God was the Law, and the Law was merely the all other laws were derived from. In essense, physics Theory of Everything would fit.

Eastern philosophy also subscribes to a God like force, although that too is not personal.

So, from my personal POV, Man exists, and because man exists God does, for with out God, there would be no laws and without those laws universes, galaxies and planets would never happen, thus man would never happen. Man has happened, therefore those other things had to have happened, therefore there is a original cause - which is called generically God.

Or maybe I am about to be tried like Job?




posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 04:24 PM
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You got the sequence wrong,

It is not that man exist because of God,

But rather God exist because of man pursue for identification with something not of this earth.


It makes the human race feel special.



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 04:28 PM
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Hehehe...yep, Earth is an early beta version of Project Inhabitable Planet. I'm guessing the designer is probably still considering the wisdom of adding humans. Are they more trouble than they're worth?


Or, maybe God is thinking that he should not have indulged Adam by giving him a companion. Like a lot of parents, God is probably thinking "I should have just said "let's think about this for a while and, meanwhile, how about a pony or a dog?"

[edit on 20-6-2005 by Al Davison]

[edit on 20-6-2005 by Al Davison]



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 04:28 PM
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Where did those "staples for life" come from?


The $64 question.

To deny GOD is to deny the existence of man, earth, the solar system, the ever expanding universe.

The energy of the eternal light runs through ALL. It is what keeps everything EVERYWHERE up and running. Is the eternal light GOD? Did GOD step out of the eternal light to create or did GOD create this tremendous energy that flows through all keeping the illusion going?

Millions of these galaxies are over 6,000,000,000 LIGHT years from this planet. They have been around far longer than this Milky Way. Who knows what exists out there. Heck, we don't even know much about the little quadrant we are in.


pao

posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 04:49 PM
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well, what if instead of life being one in a million, what if life is the majority of planets and our solar system got "lucky" by only having one planet that was inhabitable????



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 06:22 PM
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Weird set of statistics:
It is an infinite (or incredibley large) universe, so there should be infinite (or incredibley large) number of planets capable of supporting life.
Since there are an infinite (or incredibley large) number of planets capable of supporting life, there should be an infinite (or incredibley large) number if species sufficiently intelligent so as to be capable of deep-space travel.
Since there are an infinite (or incredibley large) number if species sufficiently intelligent so as to be capable of deep-space travel, there should be an infinite (or incredibley large) number of alien species that have no reason to hide from us.

And yet, we are not swamped with aliens. There has not been a single verifiable alien sighting. Obviously there is a limiting factor here.



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
It makes the human race feel special.



I'm not really addressing this to marg only, I'm just using her line for my point so anybody can answer.

If the human race is an accident and there is no God and we are just an accident then there is no right and wrong. Jeffrey Dahmer liked to have sex with guys, drug them and cut them up and eat them and save parts in the refrigerater. Now if humans are just an accident that happened, who am I to think that this is wrong and he needed to be arrested and imprisoned for this. These other people he killed and ate weren't anything special. Since man is an accident then the acts he did were just an abnormality that through the evolutionary process showed in him and a few others. How can I have the nerve to believe that what he did is wrong and believe that he should be punished. I don't even have the right to say that what he had was an abnormality, that's just the way he was, that's what he thought was right. Maybe we are the abnormal ones not to do this also. He was probably just hungry, I mean I've watched TV and seen lions get hungry and kill an antelope and eat. We are an animal that happened by chance also. I don't see the antelopes getting upset and putting lions on trial for murder. If your hungry eat.

About a year ago an 11 year old raped an old woman while some other teens watched. I get the feeling he had a sexual urge that needed to be acted upon and fulfilled. Deers do it all the time. It gets to be mating season so they seek out another deer and have at it. That's all these boys did. They had a desire for sex and found someone who was able to be of use in that desire, no big deal.........

Now if you read this far and cannot see the problem here then I don't know what else to say.

If you read this far and see a problem continue reading.

Mankind is not an accident. Why was jeffrey Dahmer arrested along with these teens, because man deep down in his conscience(which God gave to man that makes Him different than animals) has been instilled with a sense of right and wrong. It's distorted because of our sin problem but the majority of the human race condemns these people's actions because we know that it's wrong.

Men and women, were created for a higher purpose and we are different than animals, because their is a God and He intentionally made us different.

To anyone, if you feel mankind is not a special creation and just an accident, then there is no right and wrong, and as such we should let people do what they want when they want, because who are we to say what they did is wrong.

But if that doesn't sit right with you and you are left wondering then here is hope. There is a right and wrong and we were created for an eternal reason and purpose by God and for Him. He is preparing a people to live with Him and inhabit eternity.

How some would choose to believe a baboon is our cousin and when we die we die is beyond me.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 11:42 AM
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My question is this? Who made the infinite amount of stars, galaxies and solar systems?





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