Shocking black imprisionment statistics

wyrdeone says:

The point seems to have been missed. Blacks don't commit more crimes than whites, statistically they commit far fewer. The point is, they get locked up more often.

Wyrdeone, are you saying that Blacks proportionately commit far fewer crimes, or they commit far fewer crimes in absolute terms?

If the latter is what you mean, that's a no-brainer; Blacks make up about ten percent of the population in the US while Whites make up about 78 percent.

If you are saying that Blacks commit proportionately fewer crimes than Whites do; that is something entirely different.

Which one is it? My guess is the former, since I'm sure your research came up with the same results as mine:

Race

Blacks were 6 times more likely to be homicide victims and 7 times more likely than whites to commit homicides in 2000.

Eighty-six percent of white murder victims were killed by whites, and 94% of black victims were killed by blacks.

(From "Bureau of Justice Statistics Crime Data Brief: Homicide Trends in the United States: 2000 Update" , retrieved from: www.ojp.usdoj.gov... )

In all honesty....
If you went to high school with a mixed population and not "mostly white", it was fact and not "statistic that:

the group that had the most pregnancies were spanish. This was an obvious fact they went to school until they were full term. the few whites were whisked away to undisclosed locations or home schooled and the blacks simply dropped out. This is what happened.

most of the kids in the school gov. were white, not because they were a majority or the popular, but because it happened to be an high interest in this group.

the sport teams were predominately made up of black kids. These kids excelled in athletics
You were also more likely to get your butt kicked by a black kid. This was a known and obvious fact

the higher level math and science coarses were mostly guys with a mostly white asian or indian ethnicity

music was a mix of mostly girls, white spanish and black

The black kids that got into good colleges were mostly girls. This was obvious in the "what are they doing now" book that was created 10 years after our graduation.

These were obvious facts in a city school. You went to school with the same kids from 7th grad to 12 grade. You KNEW them. You were in the same school for 4 years with over 1000 kids. There are obvious trends. It is necessary to aid groups in there weakness and support their strenghts instead of ignoring the obvious.

I hope that faculty is more aware and willing to strengthen weakness of everyone by offering early intervention with aggression. -- maybe by offering services in the area such as anger managment and self control, martial arts or meditation, instead of drug therapy, or punishment. Many things were overlooked and ignored in my school.



[edit on 18-6-2005 by xxKrisxx]

OTS
The latter, but violent crime is the exception. Homicide statistics reflect very badly on the black community, no argument from me there. However, look at the other fields, like drug use for example. More white folks get arrested for simple possession year after year, but more black folks end up in lockdown because of it. Why? My opinion: Money.

About 10 million white folks are arrested for various crimes every year, compared to 3 million black folks. That alone is a huge margin considering the size of the demographics being compared, blacks should theoretically represent no more than 1.25 million arrests per year, but they run nearly three times that.

On top of that you look at average sentences, and they're MUCH higher for blacks compared to whites.

There're a whole host of social factors that contribute to these numbers, I think we're all aware of those trends. Some still choose to believe that it's simply a racial inequity, that's their perogative, but I'll call it as I see it; racism.

Edit: People make their decisions, and they suffer the consequences. That can't be avoided. However, speaking as someone who has lived in a number of very poor neighborhoods, in a number of very poor cities, I can say without a doubt that desperation and poverty are prime motivators for criminal behavior. That social trend transcends ethnic boundaries, truly.

The ones who need money the most will go farther to get it.

It goes without saying really.

Role models play a huge part as well. Living in N. Hollywood, in between some Mexican thugs and some Russian thugs, I watched the way the teenagers acted, they behaved in the same way their older brothers and fathers did. The same was true in Chicago when I lived underneath the giant Puerto Rican flag.

If the most successful males are behaving in a certain way, their offspring and others will see them as good examples to follow. If they have the nice car, the money, the pretty girlfriend, their behavior must be beneficial. So goes the logic, and it's not at all flawed from an evolutionary standpoint.

The most important thing is survival into adulthood, followed by securing a mate, and producing competetive offspring. Instinct doesn't give a rat's ass about law, or justice, or the American way. It cares about numbers, and cold, hard, calculating competition for territory and resources. I sometimes think human beings give themselves too much credit.

You have to understand, living comfortably with a salary and property and insurance, all these things, that's a whole different life than most people in this world live. In a lot of places it's still about survival, and the contestants play by nature's rules, not man's.

As far as the testosterone link, it's there, but it's not an excuse. I for one have an extraordinary amount of testosterone, and I'm a free man. Sure, I have a temper, a hell of a temper actually, but I've learned to control it. Do I get angry with my friends and neighbors sometimes? Sure. Do I bludgeon them to death with a tire iron everytime I get the urge? No. Decision made, simple as that.

But again, I don't think the problem has anything to do with some fundamental inability of blacks to make good decisions, I think it has to do with a society that is set up to disadvantage some segments for the benefit of others. Take blacks out of the ghetto, and you will see a marked decline in the homocide statistics.

In my opinion, the largest problem confronting the black community is the same problem the majority of America is struggling with, this rampant, institutionalized materialism.


[edit on 18-6-2005 by WyrdeOne]

WyrdeOne, quality contribution as usual.

I really like the way you and Off_The_Street interact.

Both of you, well done and thanks for the input.

-O

Here's a little thing to add: Plea Bargining.

Let's just say a poor black kid and his rich black friend get busted selling crack. They both are innocent because they each were at a party with 100 or so of their friends when two people looking like them were seen selling crack 20 miles away. Still they're arrested and given 10,000 dollar bonds each.

The rich kid bonds out and hires a lawyer while the poor kid can't afford bond and has to stay in jail. Eight months later, the two cases finally come to trial.

The rich kid has been in contact with his lawyer every week prior to trial and after paying his attorney another 10,000 dollars they are ready for trial. He is found not guilty.

In the meantime: The poor kid hasn't seen his public defender except for one time 7 months prior when the public defender was first assigned the case at the kids arraignment. The poor kid calls and calls his office but the lawyer never returns his calls because the lawyer is too busy with his paying clients to worry about a client who in his opinion is 'just another black crack-head'.

The poor kid finally meets the public defender the morning of the start of the trial. They meet in the holding cell behind the courtroom and the trial is set for that morning at 10AM.

Now the kid has been locked up for eight months and knows he is innocent. Even so the public defender, knowing a trial will take time and therefore money from his pocketbook, starts to attempt a plea bargin with the poor kids case. After all, the public defender is only getting about 200 dollars from the state to handle the case. He'll get payed the same for an instant plea bargin or a two day trial. He does have that paying client to consider; the one paying him 250 dollars an hour in the civil case in the other courtroom at 1PM that day.

He looks at the poor kid and says, "If we go to trial there is a 20 percent chance the jury wont believe you and even though that would most likely get turned over on appeal, that could take a few years and you'll have to wait it out in state prison. Your looking at 10 years if you're convicted. BUT, IF YOU PLEAD GUILTY TODAY I can get you time served. You'll walk out of that courtroom a free man but you will have a felony conviction on your record that will follow you for the rest of your life."

Well the poor kid thinks it over. He knows he would most likely win so he asks the lawyer a few questions about the case. The lawyer can't answer the questions though because he hasn't bothered to review the case. Now dont forget the trial starts in 2 hours. The poor kid then asks the lawyer, "How many cases like mine have you taken to trial and won?" The lawyer says, "None." So the kid fires the lawyer.

But wait a minute; the judge tells the lawyer the docket is set and the trial would go on and to "Go back in there and make the most of it. He can always appeal if he's found guilty."

Now if I was this poor black kid I would plead guilty. I wouldn't go to trial with an unprepared public defender and a 90 year old coot for a judge and take my chances on a jury trial knowing I had no money for an appeal bond if I were to be convicted.

What about if it became a hung jury? I'd have to go through it all over again and how long would it take for a new trial, 8 more months?

So the poor kid knows he can walk out the door that day if he says he's guilty. He then agrees to the guilty plea, gets a felony conviction, and goes home to his family.

Money talks, BS walks. The system is set up this way at least here in Texas. It wont change because if every poor person arrested were given a trial It would bog down the courts. After all, only about 5% of cases really go to trial. The rest are plea bargins mostly for poor defendants with 200 dollar public defenders.

It's hell to be poor. I think this is important for people to understand when talking about the American injustice system. This is a main reason the stats show a large number of blacks in prison. A lot of them are simply poor and take plea bargins because they can't afford proper lawyers to balance the scales of justice.

Big O, thanks for the compliment.

But I think both xxKrisxx and Texas Conspiracy Nut, too, make excellent comments; I'd like to expand on Kris' first.

First, I went to a segregated (all white) high school and graduated in 1963. The high school is still segregated (all black) by demographics of Prince George's County, Maryland. When I taught 5th grade, it was an all-white school, and it's only been in the past six or seven years, when I did special classroom teaching (the "Choices" Program) through my employer did I interact with minority kids in the classroom (although on several occasions, I taught for several days in an all-Hispanic class where I had to teach in Spanish).

But my point is that I don't have the kind of real, live interracial classroom interaction like Kris does; I'd say that his real-life observations are probably worth at least two Ph.D. research studies!

Texas brings up something which is terribly necessary to our system of justice: the plea bargaining business. It is both morally repugnant and absolutely necessary.

I do believe that more poor people (who are disproportionately minority) are in the jug because of just that problem, and I can't think of a single thing we can do to address it!

I'd like to add one other thing to this debate, then I'll go.

It's very hard for a person of color or any poor person to get a proper jury trial from his or her peers. You know, people from his or her own neighborhood and or economic background. Most minority possible jurors at least in this state wont show up for jury duty.

Here a person in a well off neighborhood is 5 or 6 times more likely to show up for jury duty than someone in a poor neighborhood who MUST work every day and has none of the protections his or her rich counterparts have at their jobs; A boss who cares about public service...etc...

Right now in this state jurors get only 6 dollars (THAT"S RIGHT 6 BUCKS) a day for their service. It cost at least 7.50 to park in downtown Houston each day buy the courthouse.

The Governor did boost juror pay to 40 dollars a day after the first day at 6 bucks, but that wont start for a few more months. You get my point.

The judges wont enforce the law when it comes to performing jury duty because the jury duty summons are sent through regular mail that isn't certified. This means the Court has no proof the mail was received by the person it was intended for and people know this. Poor people just throw them in the trash and go to work instead because they need more than 6 bucks a day to live on. They aren't worried about which new truck to buy or which steak to buy for dinner, they're worried about buying basic food and keeping a roof over their head. Six bucks a day wont cut it for them.

This alone makes a fair trial almost impossible based on the above scenario with the poor kid and rich kid because the public defender wont take the time to really question the possible jurors who are almost always at least at first, ( the first jury batch), mostly white and well off. They just go with the show and pick the jurors ASAP because after all, (the public defender) isn't getting paid much to take the case. They just go through the motions, the prosecutor get his way because the state has plenty of time and money to waste. It's no skin off the prosecutors' back if he has to come back next week. He gets paid by the hour.


[edit on 19-6-2005 by TexasConspiracyNut]

Originally posted by Kriz_4


So it wouldn't have anything to do with Texas being a racist religous extremist state then?

The amount of strange guff you here about this state it is hard to not draw this conclusion.

Lay off the stereotypes yourself! Have you lived in Texas, been to Texas, or seen it on a map? Here in Houston, white people are now a minority, hispanics make up the largest percent of population. I have no clue as to how these hispanics are 'racist religous extremist' as you claim them to be. You carpetbaggers make me sick trying to act righteous.

Big picture here regarding imprisonment of Blacks.......(or anyone for that matter)

Breakdown of the family leads to neighborhoods in decline.......that leads to Black children being victimized with a criminal background that is firmly rooted into the mindset and culture of the urban Black youths today........result...........increasing Black males in jails.............simple as that......

Look.............70% of all black children born out of wedlock..........no father figure at home and Black women having multiple births to different fathers raising kids on a welfare system that was suppose to assist and raise them out of poverty not make them dependent on it................Now with the prison culture of HipHop in dress and lifestyle rampant in urban Black neighborhood.........education becomes a non issue on the radar screen of a kid trafficing drugs and working in a gang............

This has led to a drop out rate of Black males in High school near 50%..........

Now in prisons 90% of the inmates are HS drop outs.............

Do the math.............

Bill Cosby calls the shots on the hiphop urban culture of today being geoncide to the Black race in a society where education is paramount to raising your quality of life............

While the race pimps Jessie Jackson and Sharpton keeping wanting things bent over backwards to accomodate Blacks in ever increasing voter numbers so they can continue to vote in politicians that keep feeding the system...........

Keep rewarding the irresponible in our society and pretty soon there are more of them than responsible individuals..............then you can kiss this country good bye...........

You want a solutions?

Regardless of race...............steralize anyone who goes to jail (especially for drugs, gang behavior or violent crimes) and steralize any women after they have one kid on welfare.............(and this goes for whites and Hispanics too........ever seen an episode of Cops at the trailor park?..........you want that drunk shirtless white guy and his uneducated wife/woman as a role model for future generations too?)

If you don't then they just end up being role models for the same social problems to the next generation..........a generation that is larger in popluation that the previous one...........

Steralization too extreme??

Then revamp our social and welfare systems to reward those who are responsible and penalize the irresponsible..............

One other thing to be considered is the influence of role models in the black community. Rappers are constantly singing about violence and crime as a good thing and usually in the first person.

Does this mean everyone who listens to it will go out and commit crimes? No, I don't think so, however, it does tend to normalize it.

Also, most people tend to stick to their own race just as a matter of comfort (again, I don't want to hear about how everyone has black or white or hispanic friends, again, just generalizing for the sake of argument). The only exposure many people have are what they see on TV or in movies. If you see a black man with tattoos and corn rows he is gonna look like a criminal to many people right off the bat. It's not right it's just, sadly, the way it is.

Another thing that I think affects the (poor) black community is that the welfare system is set up in such a way that you get accustomed to getting something for nothing. You get an expectation that isn't compatible with what the reality of the situation is. Add in mass marketing telling you that you have to have a new TV or 100 dollar shoes to be cool in an environment where style and cool is all that you might have and it becomes easier to understand why there is such a high percentage of blacks committing crimes.

I'd love to see studies on the economic makeup of prisoners (prior to incarceration).

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Ok what's so shocking about this? If one race commits more crimes that the other then there will be a higher percentage of that race in prison, what's so hard to understand about this?
Why does everything have to be in black and white?.
Pardon the bad analogy but this is like getting angry because sharks are more violent than tuna fish.

Hey KKKLansmen23, blacks do not commit more crimes than whites, there is simply more
white cops, white judges, white lawyers. white prison owners.

Originally posted by futuretense
Breakdown of the family leads to neighborhoods in decline.......that leads to Black children being victimized with a criminal background that is firmly rooted into the mindset and culture of the urban Black youths today........result...........increasing Black males in jails.............simple as that......

Your 100% right. This is the best answer Ive seen yet in this thread.....it all comes down to the family unit. When theres a responsible Father in the house, a teenager won't be out gang-banging with his homies.

Liberals tend to blame everything but the criminal....the cops are bad....Whitey is bad....schools are bad...the courts are biased....CIA selling crack on the streets......not enough money for the social programs.

Black parents need to be PARENTS and quit depending on the schools and cops to raise their kids.....than and only than will we see a change.


PS: Bill Cosby is right on the money


Maximu§

Intelligence Wise:

Jews > Asians > Whites > Middle Easterners, North Saharran Africans (both Caucasian, the African one is still "black") > Mexican, Puerto Ricans > Native Americans > South Americans, Hispanics > Sub-Saharran Africans > Australian Aborigines

That's the biggest generalization I've seen yet, and that's really saying something.

Individuals..they don't call 'em that for nothing.

TexasConspiracyNut - Great Posts. Too True about the plea barganing.

futuretense - Another Great Post as well. The downfall of the Family structure has alot to do with EVERYTHING not just crimes.

LA_Maximus - While I do agree with some of what you said, the stereotyping you do does nothing to help any cause.

A person could just as easily say: Conservatives tend to blame everything on immigrants, NATO, Democrats....the cops are above the law and never do any wrong....Blacks, Hispanics, Muslims, etc. are bad....schools are perfect the way they are, there is no need to update any programs, increase the education level of graduates...the courts don't have enough conservative, right wing, christian, eighty plus year old white males....CIA and FBI have NEVER done anything wrong, and should be allowed to do whatever it takes to get the *job* done......not enough money for the military, good ole boy network government contracting firms.

But, enough on that. The point is until the Family (And everything that has to do with the family, childcare, violent crimes against children and women, health care, jobs, economy, housing, retirement, social security) comes back to the focus of the US, then we will continue to see these trends. As long as the focus is on things outside our borders we won't see an end to this.

Phae


[edit on 6/20/2005 by Phaethor]

Besides, inteligence has nothing to do with criminality. Pretty much every prison has a MENSA chapter. There're a lot of smart guys in prison, geniuses.

So I don't understand what the point of that post was, unless you're just trying to seed that tired old bell curve crap.



I for one, am confused.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Besides, inteligence has nothing to do with criminality. Pretty much every prison has a MENSA chapter. There're a lot of smart guys in prison, geniuses.

So I don't understand what the point of that post was, unless you're just trying to seed that tired old bell curve crap.

I for one, am confused.

Of course there are SOME very intelligent people in prison. However, the average IQ of prison inmates is less than that of the general population. Lower IQs = increased crime rate.

RD
Show me, don't tell me. You have proof?

Since we're guessing, I'll guess too. The average prisoner IQ is..90 something, acccording to me. So if that's right, it's right about average. Over 80% of Americans have a lower IQ than the average college graduate (120). So I'm pretty confident that the average American rests comfortably below 100, not much of course, 5 or 6 points.

If there is a difference between average citizen IQ and average prisoner IQ, it's minute.

But please, prove me wrong with something other than speculation.

Originally posted by Phaethor
LA_Maximus - While I do agree with some of what you said, the stereotyping you do does nothing to help any cause.

Now American Blacks are caught in a bad spot......on one side stand the WHITES with their police, courts and prisons and on the other stand the HISPANICS and the Blacks are caught in-between. Alot of rioting has been going on in the LA schools and prisons between Blacks and Hispanics and hispanic numbers grow stronger every day.

So the Blacks are losing turf to the Hispanics in their neighborhoods, schools and prisons and they can ether fight harder and become more violent of they can "get smart" and work their way outta the hood and join the regular folk in the suburbs.

It all starts at home.....when Dad decides to become a parent and fufill his obligation and raise his child to be a success....thats where it all begins!!

Look at the Asians, how far they have come in America...because they have a tight family unit and they work hard at school. Black people should take some lessons from the Asians.

One way to get Black men outta prison is to let the non-violent offenders out (drugs) and try and help them instead of locking them up....thats a start.


Max





[edit on 053030p://111 by LA_Maximus]