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WAR: Former Bush Administration Economist Believes WTC Felled by Controlled Demolition

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posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 04:50 PM
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I know that I posted this in another thread, but since some people here are talking about WTC 7, let’s see what the firemen who were on site that day have to say about it



Firehouse: Other people tell me that there were a lot of firefighters in the street who were visible, and they put out traffic cones to mark them off?
Hayden: Yeah. There was enough there and we were marking off. There were a lot of damaged apparatus there that were covered. We tried to get searches in those areas. By now, this is going on into the afternoon, and we were concerned about additional collapse, not only of the Marriott, because there was a good portion of the Marriott still standing, but also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.

Firehouse: Was there heavy fire in there right away?
Hayden: No, not right away, and that’s probably why it stood for so long because it took a while for that fire to develop. It was a heavy body of fire in there and then we didn’t make any attempt to fight it. That was just one of those wars we were just going to lose. We were concerned about the collapse of a 47-story building there. We were worried about additional collapse there of what was remaining standing of the towers and the Marriott, so we started pulling the people back after a couple of hours of surface removal and searches along the surface of the debris. We started to pull guys back because we were concerned for their safety.

www.firehouse.com...

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Boyle: A little north of Vesey I said, we’ll go down, let’s see what’s going on. A couple of the other officers and I were going to see what was going on. We were told to go to Greenwich and Vesey and see what’s going on. So we go there and on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good.

But they had a hoseline operating. Like I said, it was hitting the sidewalk across the street, but eventually they pulled back too. Then we received an order from Fellini, we’re going to make a move on 7. That was the first time really my stomach tightened up because the building didn’t look good. I was figuring probably the standpipe systems were shot. There was no hydrant pressure. I wasn’t really keen on the idea. Then this other officer I’m standing next to said, that building doesn’t look straight. So I’m standing there. I’m looking at the building. It didn’t look right, but, well, we’ll go in, we’ll see.

So we gathered up rollups and most of us had masks at that time. We headed toward 7. And just around we were about a hundred yards away and Butch Brandies came running up. He said forget it, nobody’s going into 7, there’s creaking, there are noises coming out of there, so we just stopped. And probably about 10 minutes after that, Visconti, he was on West Street, and I guess he had another report of further damage either in some basements and things like that, so Visconti said nobody goes into 7, so that was the final thing and that was abandoned.

Firehouse: When you looked at the south side, how close were you to the base of that side?

Boyle: I was standing right next to the building, probably right next to it.

Firehouse: When you had fire on the 20 floors, was it in one window or many?

Boyle: There was a huge gaping hole and it was scattered throughout there. It was a huge hole. I would say it was probably about a third of it, right in the middle of it. And so after Visconti came down and said nobody goes in 7, we said all right, we’ll head back to the command post. We lost touch with him. I never saw him again that day.

We ended up getting back to the command post at Broadway and Vesey. By that time, there were probably 50 officers standing in a row. And I was like, I’m not going to stand on another line like that. So we came down with Fox. I knew Fox was somewhere. So we found out that Fox was over at Cortlandt and Church. They were putting a tower ladder into operation, so we made our way over to there. We ended up helping.

They had no pressure at all off of any of the hydrants from Broadway. He was asking if there was any way that we could do anything at Broadway or West. From Broadway to West westward toward Church Street there was no pressure at all. We spotted one of the squads up on Cortlandt over by Broadway and he was hooked up to a hydrant, and it was running. There was nobody there. I don’t know which squad it was, but you know they were in there. We were just sitting there, so we stretched the line off of him. We relayed it to 274, who relayed it to another engine down the street and eventually we got more pressure. I think it was 22 Truck on Church and Cortlandt and they were operating to number 5.

We did that for a little while. It took a while to get the hose there because there was a White Plains company helping us and they had some different fittings. So we got water to 22, but then that’s when they said all right, number 7 is coming down, shut everything down. I don’t know what time that was. It was all just a blur.

Firehouse: Did they shut the tower lines and remove them from there?

Boyle: No, just left them. Everything was left where it was. Just shut everything down, moved everybody back.

Firehouse: Could you see building 7 again from there?

Boyle: Seven, no. You got a half block away, you couldn’t see it, couldn’t see a damn thing. All we heard was they were worried about it coming down, everybody back away. We ran into the people running around for water for the eyes because everybody’s eyes were burned and I don’t know who they were. I think it was the doctor and some other people. They were just running around, washing people’s eyes out.

We were there about an hour or so until number 7 came down and everything was black again.

www.firehouse.com...

I find that to be pretty compelling testimony, don't you?




posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 04:55 PM
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Now, back to Stanley Morgan.

If you read his articles, he actually questions whether there were actual planes that hit the WTC towers. He also buys into the whole claim that the building floors were supported by I beams not trusses.

This guy is obviously suffering from Pierre Salinger syndrome


SMR

posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 05:02 PM
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What would be the oppisite of Pierre Salinger syndrome?
The tendency for online users, especially ATS Debunkers, to assume any information published on the Internet is automatically false.



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by SMR
What would be the oppisite of Pierre Salinger syndrome?
The tendency for online users, especially ATS Debunkers, to assume any information published on the Internet is automatically false.


Well, any false information, as what you told us about the use of "pull-it, pulled" by firefighters, can be corroborated to be false and just to be another made up wild fantasy.


Have you actually gone to a firefighting station and asked a firefighter what it means to "pull-it\pulled"?.... Haven't done that yet?...

[edit on 16-6-2005 by Muaddib]


SMR

posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 05:25 PM
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You gotta do better than that dude


Lets see.I have 3 friends that own a demolition company.They always use the term PULL IT.
I live near 3 huge fire stations and know many of the heros there.I have asked several if they have ever used the term PULL IT and guess what,,, NEVER!!!! They have told me time and time again they tell thier men to PULL OUT!

Ever since Larry said that famous line, members tied the two together.
Not once will you hear a firefighter say "ok men, lets pull it" and see the men leave a burning building.Not once will you see or hear a firefighter say they had to PULL IT

EDIT TO ADD:



Well, any false information, as what you told us about the use of "pull-it, pulled" by firefighters, can be corroborated to be false and just to be another made up wild fantasy.


False information? I think not Young Padawan.It isnt a fantasy, it is fact

Stay in school if your still there.We dont need more stupidity in America


[edit on 16-6-2005 by SMR]



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 05:37 PM
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And again, since when demolition men are firefighters?.... Read the entire sentence again...dude...and maybe you will realize that what he was talking about was TO PULL THE FIREFIGHTERS FROM THE BUILDING.....not to have demolition men bring down the building.....

Well, you can continue with your own dellusion as what he meant in that sentence... it is your choice to remain ignorant...but a firefighter is not a demolition man, and firefighters use the term pull, pull it, pulled to mean to pull everyone out.... They don't use the term pull, pull-it, pulled as demolition men do... But you can remain ignorant if you want....DUDE.....

[edit on 16-6-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 05:42 PM
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Starting to look like a little "chillin" is in order in this thread.


SMR

posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 05:49 PM
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You continue to babble and mix things up man

I am seperating the two but you cant see that can you?

Im not implaying firefighters are demolition men.I am stating that the term PULL IT is NOT used by firefighters.It is used by demolition men.Why cant you understand that? Your twisting words are more disinfo that plagues this site more and more.Twisting what people say to confuse.That tactic is offen used to get people to confess to crimes they didnt commit.

Once again:
PULL IT - Demolition term
PULL OUT - Firefighter term

Get it now? If you dont, so be it I guess.But stop selling your false statements as fact.I have facts because I have asked personally both parties.I have been told to my face what term is used by whom.



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 07:02 PM
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Now you claim I am giving disinformation... of course when an argument is shown to be false, there are some people who always have to claim it is just a tactic used by government agents....


I don't work for the government DUDE, and i am not paid in any way to post in these forums or anywhere else. Your argument and your claim is just the tactics people like yourself use when you make no sense and someone can refute your claims.

The problem is, that it was a firefighter who said "pull it"...and firefighters use pull to mean to get their people out, or get other people out of a burning building..... firefighters are not demolition men.

If it had been a demolition man who said "pull it" then i wouldn't be arguing with you, because you would be right that demolition men use the term pull to bring down a building....but firefighters don't have the same meaning when using the word pull, pull-it, pulled.....

If anyone is confused, it is clearly you i fear....

Let's see the statement again....


'You know we've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is, is pull it.' Uh, and they made that decision to pull and then we watched the building collapse."


Humm, so they made the decision to pull because we had lost a lot of lives already.....which is exactly what firefighters do when they are told to pull everyone from a building that the chief sees it is too dangerous to have men/women in it....


[edit on 16-6-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 10:38 PM
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so are u saying silverstein was confused or what ?

or are you saying he could not be using the term like I think he did ?

seems to me, no matter who uses the term " PULL-IT" , the" it" part, is not referring to people, but to an object.

people are;

them,

the crew ,

pull them

pull the crew

not pull IT ," it", is a thing...people are not THINGS

and since pull" it" refers to a thing, I'm saying the THING being PULLED , is the bldg.

do we agree or disagree on that ?

I just wanna be clear here.



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 10:42 PM
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BIG show on tonight on Coast to Coast AM. Reynolds will be first on the show followed by a bigtime cast at a Round Table discussion, including Alex Jones.

Dallas



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 10:52 PM
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since u posted that info about the NYFD at the site

I thought I'd bring up a short video, at a NYFD FIREHOUSE recording the comments of firefighters about the twin towers after they collapsed

I had the link , but not sure which one...it's been a while.

if anyone remembers, please put up the link, some may find it interesting.

- one firefighter describing what he saw, to a fellow firefighter;

they were amazed that the bldg came down, " just like a demo" , floor by floor , boom boom boom boom , hitting the air with his hand while describing what he saw, to accentuate the situation.

their words, " the towers came down like a demo"

it's not proof of anything , but the fact that they too, never expected the towers to crumble like a ragdoll, and to accurately describe it , going down like a demo...


any comment ?



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by toasted
- one firefighter describing what he saw, to a fellow firefighter;

they were amazed that the bldg came down, " just like a demo" , floor by floor , boom boom boom boom , hitting the air with his hand while describing what he saw, to accentuate the situation.

their words, " the towers came down like a demo"

it's not proof of anything , but the fact that they too, never expected the towers to crumble like a ragdoll, and to accurately describe it , going down like a demo...


any comment ?


People use similes to describe unusual occurrences. Just because the firemen said it came down just like a demo doesn’t mean that it was. A building that size is going to come down fast, regardless of what the cause was.

As far as I am concerned, what they are describing is exactly what I would expect the building to sound like as it fell and the floors pancaked into each other.

Having witnessed a couple of building demolitions I can tell you that there are two separate sounds. First there are the sounds of the charges going off. While these are generally not simultaneous, they are so close together that they seem to be. In addition, the charges are quite loud. I don’t think that you can truly appreciate just how loud and sharp the sounds of the charges are. They are clear and distinct up a considerable distance away. On demo job I witnessed, the buildings were spread out over a half mile site. I was at one end, a couple of blocks south of the complex. The buildings were demolished in sequence, from those nearest to me to those a half mile distant. You could clearly hear the sound of the charges going off. These were quite distinct and totally different from the sound of the building collapsing.

If you are close enough, up to a quarter mile away, you can actually feel the pressure waves from the charges in your chest cavity.

After the charges go off, there is about a split second of silence followed by a gradually building rumble and banging sounds of the building collapse.

No where in any of the interviews with the firemen was that sequence of very distinctive sounds of demolition charges described.

Instead, what was described was the general sound of the collapse.

If demolition charges had actually gone off, half of Manhattan would have heard them. They would be clearly audible on the many videos and tapes of the collapses.

Furthermore, I simply don’t see how any charges could have been reliably set off on the impact floors. If you watch the building collapse, the impact floors were the first to go. How did these charges survive the shock of the impact and the subsequent fires? How did the wiring to these charges survive the impact and subsequent fires? How did whoever planted the charges know exactly which floors would be impacted?


SMR

posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 03:12 PM
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Muaddib,
First off, I have never once said you work for anyone.I never once said you are some dis-info paid poster.Again, you confuse peole with words making them think otherwise.Please stop putting words in peoples mouths.

On this whole firefighter/demo term.You are not getting it.I seperate the two.It is you that are not getting facts straight.Silverstein is the only person on record saying PULL IT
We do not have any name of a firefighter telling him what to do or otherwise.It all came out of Silverstein's mouth.He slipped up and we know it.He knows what that term means being in the business he is in.
You say and I qoute, "The problem is, that it was a firefighter who said "pull it"
No...... it was Silverstein that said that, not a firefighter.Can you provide a link to the firefighter who said this.A name or anything?


Toasted,
Correct.The word IT is refering to the building, not people.When he says 'PULL IT' he speaks of taking down the building.As I have said before, PULL IT is NOT a term the fire Dept uses ever.They use PULL OUT.Feel free to ask one, they are all over.So yes, we agree on this.

I will say once again to you Muaddib, please do not put words or opinions that are not mine in your posts.I dont need my posts being confused because you change them around.Again, I never once said you were a paid dis-info poster.I simply said that you post misleading terms and wording.You state fact that firemen use a certain term that they do not.

[edit on 17-6-2005 by SMR]



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 03:39 PM
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HowardRoark, how do you explain the speed at which the two towers fell?

One of the towers collapsed in 8 seconds. Thats the speed of free fall with no air resistance. If the tower's floors pancaked on each other wouldnt you expect the floors to cause atleast some resistance? Thus slowing down the fall considerably longer than that of a free falling object from the same height in the absence of air.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by toasted
...........
do we agree or disagree on that ?

I just wanna be clear here.


Not really, because the only people who use the term pull it to mean a building are demolition men....and that term was used by a fireman....not a demolition man....

Ask any firefighter what it means when another firefighter says "they told us to pull it because we already lost too many lives that day, so we pulled and watched the building collapse."

It was a firefighter who said this, so the meaning must be what firefighters mean to say when they use the word....



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 06:30 PM
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SMR....what proof do you have that there were demolition men in there and not firefighters?.... The people who died there were those working in the towers who were trapped and firefighters/first and other first aid responders.... Silverstein said they told him to pull it, it was probably the firefighter chief who made that call, because he is the one that makes such call, and to tell everyone to get out to save the lives of all those firefighter and first aid responders who were still inside the building....


SMR

posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 06:37 PM
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Muaddib,
Please show us some proof that the statement came from a firefighter.The ONLY time we have heard this term in this issue was from Larry Silverstein.No article has quoted a firefighter as saying that sentence.

You keep saying that a firefighter said 'Pull It' but that is not true.Larry Silverstein said it.
I have already stated that I have asked both parties who uses what term but you seem to keep ignoring that keep telling people that it is the other way around.It is not true.
This is what I am talking about when I say dis-info.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 06:48 PM
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i asked you for proof that there were demolition men in the WTC and you respond by asking me for proof?...

You are the one trying to tells us that when silverstein was told to pull everyone out that it meant what demolition crew use the word for... so where is the proof for this??

Where are the bodies of the demolition crew that were at the WTC and died?.... there are none?.....


SMR

posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 06:53 PM
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Ok, to even things out, it is said that the term came from fire dept commander.
The entire quote is this...


"I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse."

Ok now, what is "I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander" part.We have no name.We are not 100% positive it was really a, er, fire dept commander either.The MP3 can be heard here

In the same program ( "America Rebuilds" ) a cleanup worker referred to the demolition of WTC 6: "... we're getting ready to pull the building six." MP3 here

Molten steel was found “three, four, and five weeks later, when the rubble was being removed [from WTCs 1 & 2] Molten steel was also found at 7 WTC
Burning diesel can't produce enough heat to melt steel, so it certainly can't evaporate it, but thermite can


Also, I never said there were demolition men at the site.It's not like they need to be right there.Very possible they were near by to set off the charges.Perhaps right near a phone to tell Larry, "Hey Lar, get ready to make some cash!"
And that he did!






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