Building Iraq's Army: Mission Improbable

It doesn't get any more depressing than this...

Building Iraq's Army: Mission Improbable
News.Yahoo.Com
By Anthony Shadid and Steve Fainaru, Washington Post Foreign Service
Fri Jun 10, 1:00 AM ET

BAIJI, Iraq -- An hour before dawn, the sky still clouded by a dust storm, the soldiers of the Iraqi army's Charlie Company began their mission with a ballad to ousted president Saddam Hussein. "We have lived in humiliation since you left," one sang in Arabic, out of earshot of his U.S. counterparts. "We had hoped to spend our life with you."

It's a long article (please post and discuss more of it), but that opening says it all.

This will never end. There is no exit strategy. We didn't bring freedom, we just lost our own. Now, we're stuck.

Please read the article, and tell me how to "win" this war.

[edit on 11-6-2005 by RANT]

...but...but if we pull our troops out now then Bush will have to admit that he truly is a failure. Lets see here,

...the WMDs that never were
...tying Saddam to 911 was crap
...his plan to bring democracy to the middle east failed
...hundreds of American troops dead
...tens of thousands of Iraqi's dead

All he has going for him is Saddam in his underpants.



[edit on 6/11/2005 by Lecky]

One of the biggest mistakes the US made was disbanding the old Saddam-era army. The vast majority of those troops weren't hardcore Baathists, they were just rank-and-file troops who wanted their monthly pay. Now, the same force that kept the Middle East's only secular Arab nation terrorist-free is out of work, disgruntled, and joining forces with the fundamentalists. Good job, neo-con planners!

I'll give the Iraqis about a year after the US pulls out, whenever that may be, before the North Vietnam- er, sorry... fundamentalists take over.

What sickens me is that the real reason for this war wasn't the lies about 9/11 or freedom or terrorism, it wasn't even primarily about oil or OPEC and the Euro, it was about a bunch of conservative ivory tower academics trying to prove that Vietnam was a fluke, a one-off affair, and that Iraq would be the final cure to America's "Vietnam syndrome," its' military power once again to be freely and widely used all over the globe, but particularly in the Middle East. This war was to vindicate their theories. And all they've done is made the same mistakes.

They had no excuse this time, but I suppose no one cares anymore.


-koji K.

[edit on 11-6-2005 by koji_K]

Wow. What an interesting article! The US really messed up when it ignored the generals advice (yet again) and disbanded the Iraqi military. The US, no matter how noble it's intentions, is not trusted in the region. We need an international presence, the UN, or other nations seperately. If Bush really cared about the fate of the Iraqi people, and not money, he would swallow his pride, admit he made a mistake, and ask for help. Maybe offer the spoils of war, contracts and other incentives, to ther nations that provide troops. He could say something like, "Today, French companies are taking over such and such aspects of Iraq. So, they need French troops to protect them." That would be a way to get help, without (gasp) having to ask for it or admit you made a mistake. Of course, that would mean giving up profits to corporate America, and that will never happen. Not as long as corporatists run our country.

In the end, if we continue failing the our country, and the Iraqis, do you know who will be blamed? "Liberal media" like YahooNews who report what is really going on. You can see it when some members talk about Vietnam. Why did we lose? It was the protestors and the media! No accountability from the blame the governemnt last crowd. It seems almost like a pride issue, where some don't want to admit that their government is sometimes wrong. In the meantime, for the sake of pride, and money, soldiers and innocent Iraqis die daily.

Originally posted by curme
In the end, if we continue failing the our country, and the Iraqis, do you know who will be blamed? "Liberal media" like YahooNews who report what is really going on. You can see it when some members talk about Vietnam. Why did we lose? It was the protestors and the media! No accountability from the blame the governemnt last crowd. It seems almost like a pride issue, where some don't want to admit that their government is sometimes wrong. In the meantime, for the sake of pride, and money, soldiers and innocent Iraqis die daily.

Too true. I fear the loons who cry, as Hitler did, that we were "stabbed in the back," this time by the so-called "liberal media". For they herald the future of this war.

To continue my point about making the same mistakes, in my post above, another thing that I really can't believe is how people can claim that it's public opinion and/or the media who will be responsible for the end of this war, as though they were unable to take that into account when planning it! Another lesson not learned from Vietnam, imo. Make sure your war is just and above reproach before starting it!

EDIT: Let me say though, that if the hawks will not learn from their mistakes, at least let those who opposed this war learn from theirs. I will never, never blame a single soldier, or look down upon them, for fighting in Iraq. They are heroes. It is the administration and the neo-conservative policymakers which deserves contempt.

-koji K.

[edit on 11-6-2005 by koji_K]

Iraq did not get the way it was over night and it wont be fixed overnight also. Maybe people now days expect wars and the rebuilding of a country to take a month, but it took us 10 years to calm the insurgency in Germany and Japan.
Maybe people want democracy in the middle east over night once again its not going to happen like that. A lot of presidents have tried to bring democracy to the middle east all have failed, now bush is trying something but he automatically fails. Pure BS.

If our military leaders would just put it to the civilians in the Pentagon bluntly that we have go to change our policies there, things would get better.

When have civilians ever known their a$$ from a hole in the ground about war?

The first and best thing we should do is pull out of the civilian centers and start training the Iraqi forces out in desert encampments. That way all would be as safe as possible. The less our forces are seen by the Iraqi population the better.

If we still needed help policing the population centers, we could try some DIPLOMACY for a change and try and get some kind of Arab (regional) force to help out with that. At least Iraqis might not be so hostile to fellow Arab security forces.

We have also GOT to get our shyte together regarding the issue of detainees. That is the biggest problem we face with the people of that region. So far, we've done an abysmal job of that.

It would also help tremendously if someone would start telling the president the truth!

Why dont you ask the British to help you out, i think they might have a solution to your dillema , but you wont ask .

Originally posted by Bulldog 52
Why dont you ask the British to help you out, i think they might have a solution to your dillema , but you wont ask .

You.. meaning our administration should. Good luck with that. They don't listen to Americans even.

If you let us have more say in Iraq im sure that the deaths of Americans would be less but you dont want to , is it because you think we are not as good as you?

How to win this "War"?

The problem is that this War was not intented to be Won.

Its main purpose was the everlasting struggle - the endless conflict.

People who started it exactly knew what they were doing, or else they would have never started it.

They Hope for this to happen - they Want this war to last as long as possible.

Why End it when business is Booming!

Its much easier if you look at it from Economy-Business point of view:

You "open" a new shop. The sales are great. Lots of products sold. Lots of products ordered. Lots of people buying your products. Why close the Shop now?

If you look at it this way, it makes Alot of sense.

Not in a way of preserving Human Life, Freeedom, Justice or anything,

But to preserve the Profit.

Only things i see is America paying loads of money in a country thats not a threat , Americans are being killed everyday because of your Government, the British don't deal with these situations like you do we have a different approach, if you had any sense you would let us get you out of this mess . I'm not being patriotic , just wanting to help.

Originally posted by Bulldog 52
If you let us have more say in Iraq im sure that the deaths of Americans would be less but you dont want to , is it because you think we are not as good as you?

Until the Bush administration figures out what DIPLOMACY means, we're all screwed my man.

I know you all want to get out of Iraq its an embarrassment to the Us and Britain but Americans are being killed everyday by your stupid Generals , let us the British have control and then you will have less casualties,Trust us we know what where doing.

Originally posted by Bulldog 52
I know you all want to get out of Iraq its an embarrassment to the Us and Britain but Americans are being killed everyday by your stupid Generals , let us the British have control and then you will have less casualties,Trust us we know what where doing.

Sad to say, but I think I agree with you here. Just out of curiousity though, could you give some examples of how you think the Brits might fare better (ie, what kind of things they would do differently on a tactical level?)

-koji K.

Originally posted by Bulldog 52
I know you all want to get out of Iraq its an embarrassment to the Us and Britain but Americans are being killed everyday by your stupid Generals , let us the British have control and then you will have less casualties,Trust us we know what where doing.

To be fair and honest, and no disrespect, the British did no better in Mesopotamia than we have, back when it was their game. They, too, wound up leaving the land battered. The problem is universal. None of us ever seem to heed history and learn. We should never have allowed our leaders to boondoggle us into this whole mess. It was thoroughly unjusitified. The mainstream media shares much of the blame for this. When the BIG LIE is repeated enuff, the people will believe it everytime.

WMD WMD WMD WMD WMD WMD WMD....

Another anti, Bush, anti administration, anti American thread. Sad, don't you guys ever get tired of the crap that you post?

Hello Westie,

Here's something you might find of interest:

Even if someone points out faults with your ideas and/or beliefs it does not meant they don't love you.

Try responding to the authors request:

Please read the article, and tell me how to "win" this war.

Try noting a little more what the point of the thread is and responding to support your alternative viewpoint (if that's what you have), before the red mist descends. Bring your thoughts, your solutions and your post will hold much more weight than a quick impotent rant.

Jak

[edit on 13/6/05 by JAK]