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WAR: Iraq Puts Civilian Death Toll at 12,000

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posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 10:57 AM
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The Iraqi Interior Minister said yesterday that over the past 18 months the insurgency has claimed the lives of 12,000 civilians (including 700 in since late April).
 



www.washingtonpost.com
BAGHDAD, June 2 -- Violence in the course of the insurgency over the past 18 months has claimed the lives of 12,000 Iraqis, Interior Minister Bayan Jabr said Thursday, giving the first official count for the largest category of victims of bombings, ambushes and other increasingly deadly attacks.

At least 36 more Iraqi civilians, security force members and officials were killed Thursday in attacks that underscored the ruthlessness and growing randomness of much of the violence. The day's victims included 12 people killed when a suicide attacker drove a vehicle loaded with explosives into a restaurant near the northern city of Kirkuk.

In Baghdad, gunmen opened fire on a market area crowded with civilians, killing nine, the Defense Ministry said.




Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


I know there has been plenty of (heated) discussions here on ATS regarding the insurgency, but I think we can all agree this has got to end. That 12,000 number is about 20 civilians per day. The question is, what do these insurgents plan to accomplish by killing 20 (mainly Shiite) civilians a day? Civil war or fighting against the occupation?

According to most casualty count numbers since the war began, the 12000 number would also mean that more civilians have died at the hands of the insurgency than US forces.

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Provocateur State: Who's Really Behind the Insurgency?
The Mystery of the Insurgency
Car bombs outside GIRLS SCHOOL!
WAR: Over 40 Percent of Iraqi Suicide Bombers Are Saudi

[edit on 3-6-2005 by ThatsJustWeird]




posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 11:24 AM
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I thought the civilian death toll figures due to military action in Iraq were between 21940 and 24897.

Iraq Body Count



posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 11:54 AM
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subz,

Probably these figures are just for the people killed by the insurgency and not those who died due to actions of the US military.

[edit on 3-6-2005 by Quake]



posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 12:39 PM
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Quake, I assumed "Civilians reported killed by military intervention in Iraq" means those killed by a military force. Insurgents are not a military are they?



posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 12:45 PM
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Source Code


From the source article:
BAGHDAD, June 2 -- Violence in the course of the insurgency over the past 18 months has claimed the lives of 12,000 Iraqis

Hope that helps.



posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 12:49 PM
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The 21940-24897 represents all civilians killed since the war begain. This number includes deaths caused by the insurgency as well as by coalition forces.
The 12000 represents all civilians killed in the past 18 months due to the insurgency alone.



posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 10:53 PM
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If the member who submitted this post makes the introduction part longer, this would be a good submission. If you add two more paragraphs describing the article i'll vote for it to be upgraded.


I think we are not paying attention to the requirements for submissions, and it's happening to quite a few submissions. Even thou some of them have only one paragraph, they have been upgraded.

BTW, there are no response from any of those people claiming that there have been 100,000-200,000+ Iraqis dead caused only by the coalition?



[edit on 3-6-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 11:47 PM
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The thread title is misleading (see Muaddib's response), how about "Insurgency claimed 12.000 lives over the past 18 months" ? Or "Civil war claims ..." ?
That would be accurate i think, and consistent with the article linked to.




[edit on 3-6-2005 by Moretti]



posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 11:58 PM
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Hey I thought Sryian Sister told me there were over a hundred thousand dead. Could her facts be wrong? Could the facts that more than one has spat off here be wrong?



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 12:08 AM
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She might be mistaking Hussein's mass graves for the deaths due to the war.



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 12:17 AM
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Originally posted by Thomas CrowneShe might be mistaking Hussein's mass graves for the deaths due to the war.


Yup, that must be it then, what about the gassed Kurds? Do they count in that tally also? The gassed Iranians?

hmmm I think 250k is more nearer to the figure don't you?



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
BTW, there are no response from any of those people claiming that there have been 100,000-200,000+ Iraqis dead caused only by the coalition?



I haven't heard of 100,000 - 200,000 killed by the coalition.
The 100,000 figure was 100,000 excess deaths over previous years. That figure included persons killed as a result of insurgents, coalition forces and even disease and random violence which escalated after the war. It also goes back to the beginning of the war.

These latest figures only count civilians killed by insurgents and it only goes back a year and a half. They state that there were thousands of Iraqi security forces also killed but they don't seem to have included them in this total.



Interior Ministry statistics showed 12,000 civilians killed by insurgents in the last year and a half, Jabr said. The figure breaks down to an average of more than 20 civilians killed by bombings and other attacks each day. Authorities estimate that more than 10,500 of the victims were Shiite Muslims, based on the locations of the deaths, Jabr said.

There have been 1,663 U.S. military deaths since the United States led the invasion of Iraq in March 2003, according to the Pentagon's official count. Bombings and other insurgent strikes have killed thousands of Iraqi security force members. No official totals have been released for those dead, or for the total number of civilian casualties since the start of the war


If you were to count Iraqi security forces killed and insurgents killed, it would probably raise that figure substantially. I'm also not too sure how accurate those figures are. They sound very low.
Let's look at a current article on the numbers of person killed in May 2005:

boston.com
1.) 151 police were killed in May
2.) Dr. Sabah al-Araji of the Health Ministry said 434 civilians were killed in May
3.) A Defense Ministry official said 85 Iraqi soldiers were killed in May
4.) 66 U.S. military personnel, two British soldiers and two U.S. contractors killed in insurgent-related violence.
5.) Defense Ministry spokesman Radhi Badir, who has been collating the figures of insurgents killed in Iraq, told the AP that more than 260 insurgents were killed in May.
---------------------------------

Civilians were less than half of the total for May and I wouldn't be surprised if other months were the same.

[edit on 4-6-2005 by AceOfBase]



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 07:31 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
If the member who submitted this post makes the introduction part longer, this would be a good submission. If you add two more paragraphs describing the article i'll vote for it to be upgraded.


I think we are not paying attention to the requirements for submissions, and it's happening to quite a few submissions. Even thou some of them have only one paragraph, they have been upgraded.



Introduction paragraph: A single properly formatted paragraph as a summary of the story you're submitting in your own words. Do not copy-and-paste material from the online news article your sourcing. Minimal intro paragraphs will not be accepted.


I think you should actually pay attention to the requirements for submissions Muaddib. You are required to post 1 introductory paragraph, not several.

This news item only has 1 sentence so maybe a few more sentences should be added, not a few more paragraphs



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 08:24 AM
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Well funny to see that now they are actually keeping the death toll in Iraq, before it was not allowed.

So now that the death toll can be blame to "isurgency" is ok to post it.

Double standards as usual.



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Well funny to see that now they are actually keeping the death toll in Iraq, before it was not allowed.

So now that the death toll can be blame to "isurgency" is ok to post it.

Double standards as usual.


They have been keeping the "real death toll" in Iraq since the war started Marg....

All those figures that are floating around in the internet which supposedly puts the death toll in the 100,000-200,000 is an exageration and a lie.

BTW, yes, much of the death toll is because of the insurgency. You just have to look at the news from around the world and see how many Iraqi civilians keep dying in insurgent suicide attacks and other insurgent attacks.



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 09:16 AM
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Originally posted by subz
............
I think you should actually pay attention to the requirements for submissions Muaddib. You are required to post 1 introductory paragraph, not several.

This news item only has 1 sentence so maybe a few more sentences should be added, not a few more paragraphs


You are right, i should have written sentences and not paragraphs.
I was too tired to notice.



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