Agenda, Agenda, who has an Agenda?

I have sit back and watched Muslims flame America for a 400 year old slave trade while not only did the SELL THE SLAVES they continues to practice it today.

I have watched the Christians flame the Muslims because of things in the Koran about killing unbelievers while the Bible says the same.


I have watched the Catholics flame the Muslims because Mohammad married a nine year old while the new Pope covered up Pedophile Priests.

I have watched people flame the Palestinians for killing kids but bend over backward to forget the Israelis do the same.


I have watched the the right wingers try to force a Religious Theocracy down our throats while clamoring about how we must save the Arabs from the Muslim Theocracy

I have watched Republicans flame the Democrats for big Government all the while handing over more and more of our freedoms to the big Government they control

I have watched the Democrats whine like little girls about the Republicans but seem to forget that a lot of the plans were drawn up under Clinton.

I have watched Muslims whine about being a misunderstood religion of peace then Cheer everytime a car bomb kills a bunch of women and children

I have watch Americans cry about Saddam being some kind of monster while forgeting we proped him up.

My question is......

Do ANY of you think YOUR SIDE is the right one?

What makes everyone elses sins so great and yours alright?


When are we going to stop letting BIG COUNTRIES and BIG RELIGIONS and BIG COMPANYS think for us and see the BIG PICTURE?

EVERY COUNTRY AND RELIGION AND CORPERATION HANDS ARE BLOODY.

That includes yours.

And this is why nothing ever gets resolved or accomplished.

Every time an injustice or crime is brought to light, the immediate response is "Yabbut, your gov't/religion did the same thing or worse".

As long as the infighting is nurtured, travesties can be committed without accountability. Although I must say that the US does seem to take more action than most other nations.

Originally posted by jsobecky
And this is why nothing ever gets resolved or accomplished.


As long as the infighting is nurtured, travesties can be committed without accountability.

That is the entire point of the so called leaders. Keep us to busy shooting each other and blaming each other for the crap THEY PUT US IN while they reap the benefit.

It amazes me that those that can clearly see the BS from the OTHER side buy into their own hook line and sinker.

I repeat my request for those who love to flame America, Israel, Iran, China, North Korea, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Mormons, Republicans, Democrats, Russia, etc. to explain how their side has went throughout history without blame.



People we are at a crossroads here.

We can continue to allow ourselves to be lead around like a dog on a leash or put a stop to it.

[edit on 13-5-2005 by Amuk]

Well, in a matter of speaking, I'd say you're pointing out the whole catch 22 of our unfortunate situation. All these Agenda's that are being pushed and all the actions that are taking place have created a massively tangled knot which is now tightening until it will become impossible to un-tie it. However, we continue to form new Agenda's to counter the old ones and Actively push for 'this or that' in an attempt to set things right. But therein lies the catch 22 in that all we ever do is create our own destructive agenda's and then set them into action. Almost everything we as people do are completely unbalanced and because of that will never 'proceed smoothly' or 'end gracefully'.

To focus in on what I'm saying I'll use the example of a classic 80's film about our own destruction being caused by our own stupidity. In the movie Wargames a supercomputer that was intrusted with control of nuclear weapons was instructed to 'simulate' Global Thermal Nuclear War as a game. However, the game becomes real and in the end it is made to 'learn' a very important lesson that saves everyone from destruction. That lesson was "Why Not to Play." There is a time when everyone needs to learn that it's not about winning or losing but how you "Don't" play the game!!

I waa hoping to hear from some of our more colorful members from both sides of the con game but I can hardly blame them for not posting here.


Since all of our stone throwers live in glass houses what did you expect?

I am giving them all a chance to explain just why all the rest of us are so evil except their little group and why everyone elses side is BS while there propaganda flows from lips of God.


I suspect I will be waiting for a while

Well, I'm not nearly as colorful as my lizard, and the only side I support is my own, so I don't think I meet the criteria for posts you were hoping to elicit. But I'd like to answer anyway.

Who does have an agenda? Who does, REALLY have their own agenda? How many people have instead chosen the easy route and adopted the agenda of some political, religious, or regional group? Are they even people anymore, in the logical, rational sense of the word? Do they have a soul? Is it their own? Is that simply the nature of our selves, to need a niche in a larger construct?

I've been thinking long and hard about the power of advertising, and the nature of slavery.

I think most people underestimate the power of advertising. It is, after all, nothing but the transmission of ideas. What people often forget is, the power of ideas. They have always had the power to change the course of history, every student of history knows that.

People elect their leaders based on advertising, they always have. Use the broadest definition possible for advertising, and you can include human sexual selection, threat displays, ideology and religion. This is the nature of power, the communication of ideas.

So many people, especially those of weak will, are susceptible to the charms and personality of those around them. People are fooled by appearances, beguiled by lies, and scared into obedience to whatever font of ideas happened to pluck them screaming from individuality. This world is populated by predators and prey items, it's always been that way here on earth. Idealogical, physical, emotional, predators is predators, and prey is prey - immutable, unbreakable law of our lives. It might change one day, but it aint changed yet.

People choose their mates, their friends, their belongings, their religion, all of it, using the same processing language, good and bad, reward and punishment. We make all our decisions in the same way, unconsciously, using numerous factors real and ephemeral.

Well, unfortunately for many people, the criteria, the code they use to make decisions, was cracked, and the techniques necessary to manipulate them are common knowledge in certain circles, secular and religious both. There are dozens of books written on how to manipulate people using words, appearance, body language, and of course, ideas. Every good tent preacher, every successful politican, every experienced salesman; they use time honoured techniques to insure that they are perceived as authority figures, respected, trusted, and most importantly, obeyed. That's what it comes down to in the end, isn't it? Obedience, the process of one human being doing, consciously or unconsciously, what another human being wants them to do. Politics, religion; just a large diorama of schoolyard politics, monkey pen politics.

It's really a lot more fun to observe from the bleachers, if you want my opinion.

I know a lot of people who are sick of this game, people who are inteligent enough to know a farce when they see one. Some people choose not to play, others choose to play for themselves, making their own rules.

When it all boils down, if you're going to play the game, and you're not playing for yourself, you're just a pawn.

We are humans, we are inheretly hypocritical idiots, We have been since man walked the earth, and yes we always will, there will never be peace, there will always be greed, there will always be hate, there will always be war, there will always be hypocrisy, This will never change no mater how much any of us want it to, you can either accept it, or ignor it, fighting it is pointless realy..

i just wish someone would push the darn button and end this crap...
/looks at sig..





[edit on 14-5-2005 by C0le]

it's not the religions, corperation, or even governments at fault for this. it is PEOPLE involved in those things.the type of generaliztion that you are useing is ALSO a part of the problem. not only are not ALL those peoples involved within your groupings doing these things, but for the most part it is only a small percentage of them. unfortunately especialy when talking about governments and corperations those who are the most ruthless end up in charge. these are those that backstab, climb useing others acomplishments and just plain deceitfullness to end up in their lofty possitions. where as those who refuse to stoop to those levels are generaly left behind.

when it comes to religion, unfortunately people tend to dwell only on the bad things compleatly ignoreing any good that is also done. and it is infact true that some people will manipulate a religion's teachings to the benifit of themselves and THEIR goals. the crusades are a perfect example of this. while being labl;ed as a worthy cause to "save" the holy land from the infidels. the real reasons were to gain ritches for both the church and those involved. one thin it did was to give "second sons" something to do to keep them out of trubble. most inheritances went ONLY to the eldest son leaveing any younger sons with nothing. so they could fight in the crusades and not only keep them from becomeing problems at home but would also give them a chance to get both money and properties for themselves. preisthood was also another thing that they would end up doing or liveing in monistaries. so as you can see the problem realy was not religion, but people were useing religion for their bennifit. this is not the religions fault but the fault of some people involved in the religion.

the same can even be said of what is happening in iraq. the stated reasons were bunk and excuses the real purpose is the controll of the oil. oil that the us needs to fuel it's self. yet ALL americans are not guilty of this, otherwise you wouldn't need to lie quite so much or as feverantly.

drogo
You, and most of the people on this planet, have confused religion with faith.

Religion is just a social construction for the dissemination of ideas, ideas used to control.

Of course people are responsible for religion, but religion itself is a specialized tool with a sole purpose, to define the world, to set boundaries, to act as an authority figure.

Faith is personaly, spiritual, and it can indeed move mountains.

The two couldn't be more different.

How many people use the word faith to describe their system of beliefs, when in fact, that system of beliefs was GIVEN to them, SOLD to them, advertised, pitched, delivered, signed.

But I agree with you, really. It's the fault of individuals, at the heart of all history's problems.

Through entities like religion and government, name and title, these individuals exert a lopsided, disgusting amount of influence on the lives of generation after generation. It's seduction by the cult of personality, religion is the cult, but it wouldn't thrive without personality.

Kudos, WyrdeOne, well put.
I believe the great man theory of history to be more valid than the evolutionary model, get someone to give a speech or write a tome that strikes a chord and the masses will follow.

Amuk
By the way, good thread. I hope people take what you said to heart.

Realist
It has always been the case..I agree. The impact of one Charlemagne-type cannot be equalled by any number of normal men. The simple act of acquiring wealth and siring many, many children is advantage enough, but when you add mass murder, oh..I'm sorry, conquest, , you've got a recipe for widespread change.

Genetic mutation means these sorts of extraordinary individuals can arise from any caste, any rank, any kingdom... So we're designed to protect and advance our genes, as well as those of our family, basically in hopes of striking it rich (in evolution terms) and acting as a progenitor for the next successful bloodline.

The point of all that was to say, we evolved to beat out others of our own kind for food and mating priviledges. We evolved to use social interaction to advance our own survival within a group. We evolved to kill, and to eat, and to..well you know the rest, but we also evolved to be compassionate in service of ourselves... Evolution isn't anywhere's near all bad, we've got this wonderful kind, inteligent, thoughtful streak that serves us well in most social situations, and if we could adapt our society to nurture these behaviors, and reward them with success unilaterally, well..that'd be utopia in about a thousand generations.

Our shared ancestors, the ones who were most successful, were those who used all the skills at their disposal to survive and breed, including a whole host of skills now illegal and frowned upon in civil society. Even societal problems most people don't connect to evolution are in fact descendants of our ancient instincts, behaviors like child molestation, racism, infanticide, abuse, rape, we evolved these behaviors at varying intervals, but now, with our wonderful minds, we want to act differently, we desire to be something other than we are, and some humans decide to advance institutions and ideals contrary to our programming in hopes of changing it.

The end of evolution is perfection, but it's unreachable for obvious reasons. One could say Heaven is just a metaphor for our perpetual destination as a species..one could say the parables that speak of Hell are simply speaking to our condition now, the punishment for continually walking the never-ending road to Heaven...

One could say a lot of things that might even be true, but one would invariably be branded a heretic, because those ideas has proven to be less beneficial in soliciting collection plate offerings.

[edit on 14-5-2005 by WyrdeOne]

Bravo Wyrdeone

At least someone is listening.....LOL

I see it everyday in everything from the Fox News to Jahidunspun to latest BS Muslim decree praising murders to the new Popes cover-up of Child-molesting Priests. I see the most obvious con going on except billions are being taken in on it.

Even here on this Board you see many scream "deny Ignorance" when what they really mean is deny YOUR IGNORANCE but embrace mine.

It is really fun to watch them lie, ignore facts, flame the other side for doing the same thing they are doing, etc all while trying to claim the moral high ground

Just an example from my own backyard.........

The Republican Party is now pushing an Agenda that would make the biggest "Big Government, WE know best, socialist" proud all the while saying they are doing it to protect us from the Democrats who want to do the same thing. The Republicans I know, instead of saying "hey this aint what I signed on for" are doing back flips trying to justify their party's agenda. If this had have been tried by the Democrats they would be screaming to the top of their lungs for armed rebellion.

Thats just here, I see the same story unfolding EVERYWHERE.