We Need A Rover On Europa!

Originally posted by MickeyDee

I think we're talkin life like whats at the bottom of our oceans, not little green men who want to make friends!!!

Well, i doubt there is life on europa, but if there is, no matter what level, invading it probably isn't going to be good for it. Imagine is an alien race that only eats to maintain chemical pathways wanted to explore earth, but decided to remove some of that pesky air first not knowing that we need the right gas balance to breathe...

Of course you can't explore without disrupting, thats just the nature of the beast. Even if we use radar or other active imaging, those would bombard Europa with different wavelengths of EM radiation which could be harmful.

Its a balance, does out want to know justify us disturbing things. Humans have completely ruined many of Earth's eco systems by accident, do we want to risk the same in the persuit of aliens.

Personally, I think the Earth is the most interesting thing in the solar system, but that's just me...

I don't see any issue with a plan to send a rover to break into the ice. There won't be life, and if there is it will be microbial - either way no one will mind, and it'll freeze over by the next morning anyway. If there is intelligent life, maybe they'll figure out this hunk of metal digging a hole that came from som other planet is not an act of war, just a probe sent by silly humans.

There won't be life, and if there is it will be microbial - either way no one will mind,

#

I would!

Are you honestly saying that it wouldnt be the biggest scientific find EVER if we found life somewhere other than Earth???

Nuclear powered space probes use plutonium sealed into disks to produce heat that can be converted into electricitity. Presumably a Europa lander would also use this heat to directly melt through the ice. The plutonium plates are so well sealed that should survive an explosion and Earth atmosphere reentry without leaking any radioactive material.

Nuclear powered space probes use plutonium sealed into disks to produce heat that can be converted into electricitity. Presumably a Europa lander would also use this heat to directly melt through the ice. The plutonium plates are so well sealed that should survive an explosion and Earth atmosphere reentry without leaking any radioactive material.

Another reason we should go to Europa, it holds many more mysteries than any other object in the solar system!!!

Originally posted by MickeyDee
Are you honestly saying that it wouldnt be the biggest scientific find EVER if we found life somewhere other than Earth???

Err, have you met me?! I'm honestly saying that if there was microbial life on Europa, no one would care if we sent a probe there to find it. Sheesh!

I'm honestly saying that if there was microbial life on Europa, no one would care if we sent a probe there to find it.

Microbial??? As in small tiny not even worth looking at!!!


Im not talking about that im talking about proper creatures similar to the ones that live in our deep oceans!

And if people still get excited about possible bacteria on Mars yrs ago im sure they would love real life on Europa!

I think this is a great read on a possible run at Europa in 2030 –after the planned 2008 orbiter. Want to note that (despite the Space.com story) for the mission they are also still looking at drilling/tunneling technology and not simply melting/fire/radioactive heat to melt through the ice.

I would add that one of the biggest technological hurdles (after penetration and distance) is that Europa's surface is bathed in high radioactivity that makes it difficult (actually at the edge of our current ability) to operate there for any length of time.

Finally, neat entry on Callisto - and why even though it is bigger and may also have an ocean -- it is a different kind of ocean, and is currently seen as less likely to harbor life.

I think this is a great read on a possible run at Europa in 2030 –after the planned 2008 orbiter. Want to note that (despite the Space.com story) for the mission they are also still looking at drilling/tunneling technology and not simply melting/fire/radioactive heat to melt through the ice.

I think it would be more sensible to drill through the crust rather than melt it!

If there was any life near the surface on Europa and we melted through the ice it may kill it! And its not very nice going to someone elses planet and killing them is it???

Originally posted by apc
Ahhh yes true true ice does trap heat well.
I must concede a mistaken assumption I made in that I assumed Europa's orbital time was rather lengthy. Apparently it is merely a little less than 4 Earth-days. So it would only spend half a day or so in the shade.
There's too many unknowns for sure regarding just how much heat the body generates internally, we wont really know until we can dig in and take a peek.

Can you imagine trying to land a rover on something traveling that fast? It would be interesting to find out exactly how fast Europa is traveling around Jupiter.

Hey I have an idea, it's a really wacky one but please bear with me here. Why dont we put he cost sending a pathetic little robot to Europa into feeding starving african kids and giving them an education and somewhere to live other than a house made out of compressed dung or canvas. Maybe by the time we have ended world hunger we might be advanced enough to send a rover that is more than a pathetic Tonka toy with a camera bolted to it. Then we can go all gaga over pctures of rocks and stuff with a clear conscience at least...

It's crazy I know. Sorry about that.

Maybe by the time we have ended world hunger we might be advanced enough to send a rover that is more than a pathetic Tonka toy with a camera bolted to it.

And i suppose the Mars rovers are 'pathetic Tonka toys'???

Im sure i could make a list of people on ATS that would dissagree there!

Probably but I think that if that is all you have to say then you have missed the point of my post. Remember the UK rover that fell of its tracks and sa there upside don with it's wheels spinning until it conked out? That money could have found a better use in some of the slum areas of Britain surely.

Probably but I think that if that is all you have to say then you have missed the point of my post. Remember the UK rover that fell of its tracks and sa there upside don with it's wheels spinning until it conked out? That money could have found a better use in some of the slum areas of Britain surely.

No i dont, please enlighten me!

I have never understood the logic of the space exploration vs. social program dichotomy. It is a false strawman. Yes, we (almost) all agree if your choice truly is saving a starving man vs. spending money on space exploration by all means let us save the starving man.

Show us where this has ever happened … or better yet: Show us where one tough social program choice was ever sacrificed on behalf of space exploration. *taps foot waiting, to sound of crickets* You know why you can’t? Because it has never, ever happened. Anywhere.

Space exploration competes with other science funding. It is funded at budgetary miniscule amounts. When it is cut it is used to reduce budgets not to fund other things.
Here is how the argument truly is framed in the UK : should the tiny budgetary amount be spent on telescopes or Mars exploration. (You will note it is not framed as “A ship made of gold to Mars vs. cutting tuition fees for all across the UK.” … because that is truly not the choice)
newswww.bbc.net.uk...

There are legitimate reasons to question space exploration, it is entirely legitimate to say you don’t want your taxes to support it. It is not intellectually honest though to frame it as choice between funding social programs or funding space exploration.

So lets play rockets and f**k the world. And they aren't even good rockets. Most of them look as though they were knocked up in someones back yard by a retarded 12 year old with a head full of acid. No wonder almost everything put into space from here f**ks up. Why not Condemn another 1200 people in need to an early death and put effort into the appearance and marketability of thes heaps of junk.

And for what?

To go look at some pond scum!!

YOU MUST BE F*****G KIDDING ME

[edit on 14/5/2005 by ThehorrorofAtlantis]

Originally posted by ThehorrorofAtlantis
So lets play rockets and # the world. And they aren't even good rockets. Most of them look as though they were knocked up in someones back yard but a retarded 12 year old with a head full of acid. No wonder almost everything put into space from here #s up. Why not Condemn another 1200 people in need to an early death and put effort into the appearance and marketability of thes heaps of junk.

Now now that was totally unnessary. Space Exploration has been proven to improve things on the ground far more then people expect. Remember we would not be discussing this if it weren't for the various R&D projects of the last 50 years. You obvously no nothing about how budgets work, listen to the above posters they hit the nail right on the head. If you want to argue for Social spending, argue at the right people not your allies, because you see most of us interested in Space Exploration are also interested in fixing the basic root problems of our society and Space is an excellent proving ground for all sorts of idea's, one of them being how we can get an isolated colony self-suffiecient. You realize how profound that discovery would be on Earth? Or how bout new clean power sources? You realize that the Space Program was the only thing that was steadily increasing the efficiency of Solar Panels when everyone else just gave up? You really need to do some basic research before you go and preach from upon your moral high horse If you want to make a difference then Volunteer for Habitat for Humanity or whatever your local equivalent is, it's about time we realize that the Gov't doesn't care about the poor so we the people need to start acting ourselves.

People are starving... This tells a feeble mind like mine that nobody knows how budgets work. Sorry if I am not with the 'Program'

Originally posted by ThehorrorofAtlantis
People are starving... This tells a feeble mind like mine that nobody knows how budgets work. Sorry if I am not with the 'Program'

Yes people are starving. What do you plan on doing about it except bitch and whine? Attacking people who basically want the same thing is not going to help at all. All it will do is set people against you. What have you been doing lately to help your fellow human? If you personally want to make a difference then Volunteer, Donate or better yet become a Politician and try to change the system

[edit on 14-5-2005 by sardion2000]

My thought on this is even if all we find is some mircocospic bacteria or something, it is still something. And maybe whatever we find could give us insight into our own evolution. I am all for searching the solar system for any kind of life that may still exist, or may have existed at one point. That kind of research is not going to do any harm to anyone, and the people who want to know the answers to space and evolution can put thier money into it.