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UK Classroom Chaos

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posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 06:55 AM
UK CH5 20:00 Tonight - Classroom Chaos

A documentary featuring footage secretely filmed by a teacher, who after an abscence of 3o years, was so shocked by the classroom chaos on her return to the profession that she decided to capture it on camera.

Classroom Chaos (Documentary)
Time - 20:00 - 21:00 (1 hour long)
When - Wednesday 27th April on five
Daring undercover investigative documentary featuring footage secretly filmed in a random selection of schools. Ex-teacher Sylvia Thomas (pseudonym) was so shocked at what she found after returning to teaching after a 30-year absence that she collected snapshots of disruption even in schools praised by Ofsted. Other full-time teachers confirm that this is normal.
(Subtitles, Stereo)

I have a 14 year old daughter who is currently two years ahead in some of her subjects. During the recent appointments at the school her mother and I have been appologised to a number of times for the disruption she has to endure during classes. It is a disgusting position for the teachers to be in - I would not do it. I have been told several times that I would make a great teacher, I gladly help my daugher in many subjects homework with such advice that she in turn has relayed to her friends who now come to her for help.

But despite that it is, I believe, the most admirable of professions [I am serious too - a profession incidentally that society places far too little appreciation on in my opinion. After all what greater legacy can one leave than they enhance the prospects of the coming generation(s)]. As things stand though there is no way I would go into teaching. Why should I? I wouldn't think I have the required patience to reply kindly to a childs threats to my person while I try to help them. Rather I think they would just be out of the class, even should I have to remove them bodily, do not forget that we are not talking about 'problem children' but general students, such behaviour is not an uncommon occurance.

I am very grateful to my daughters teachers for managing to educate her to the advanced standard she is at currently, but such behaviour is increasing. This brings me on to another subject I was talking about the other day, which is that of grammar schools.

Now, should you watch the aforementioned programme, read my comments or be personally aware of the situation you will see the reason why some do not want their children educated in that atmosphere. My daughter has excelled thus far despite the attempts of certain classmates to disrupt the lessons. Why should she have to put up with such? Here, at this stage we are attempting to lay strong foundations for her to work from and progress to achieve her full potential in life. Whatever that might be is up to her, but presently it consists of advancing to a good University. Why should she have to be hindered by those who have no idea or desire to further themselves in any way, for it is a hinderance.

I was under the impression that the only way my daughter would be able to aviod such distracting behaviour throughout her schooling was through private school, which frankly I cannot afford. It was only the other day that I discovered it is possible to send your child to a grammar school through state funding. I was under the impression that the politically correct, campaigning since the '60's had managed to get them all closed down, and frankly I am more than a little regretful that I was not aware of this until now.

I know one of the more prevalent arguments against grammar schools was that those who failed the relavent exam were 'consigned to the trash heap' and it might well be that was indeed the case. Those 'secondary modern' or whatever you might wish to call them have changed drastically now from wht they were. A fair education can be had, what was perhaps the cause of so many tentions has been eradicated. But I see no further advantage for society for downplaying the possibilities of grammar schools. Especially when the secondary schools characteristics can be summed up by such programmes as will be aired tonight, and classroom behaviour so appauling that the teachers themselves believe it warrents a personal apology to the parents of those actually trying to take part in the lesson.

Is it time for grammar schools to take their position again for those who wish to actually work through their schooling and utilise their abilities? Or should such a promising student be dragged down and forced to suffer the waste of their potential through others behaviour for the good of equality in society?

I completely fail to see what those who battle against grammar schools are doing to remedy the current sitaution, and therefore make their postiion tenable.

Sort out the terrible situations in the UK's schools, then no grammer schools etc. will be required. The behaviour of someones child denying my daughter the possiblilty of achieving what she otherwise might is not social equality, rather a social constraint.

The widespread removal of grammar shcools availability is not working, it has come to a stage now where rather than continuing to increase the standards thus realise the potential of more students generally there is now a bar upon those who might otherwise do so much better. I look forward to seeing what this programme presents, and the response it recieves from those concerned.


PS: Remarks on the irony of me commenting on teaching of our children with incorrect punctuation will be ignored.

[edit on 27/4/05 by JAK]

posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 03:28 PM
I believe that school is now a battleground hinged on a turning point, on one path we have the continued methods that we currently use, thus resulting in continued chaos within the class room.

On the other path we have discipline and respect, both qualities that lack within today’s youth (I myself being one).

When I first entered high school (this being my last year) years ago I entered school looking up at the higher years and teachers with respect not because they were older but because I was brought up to respect others, especially those older than me.

As I progressed through my school life I noticed something, those in years below me were beginning to get more sure of themselves and more rude, often towards teachers.
As the years progressed (even in such a short amount of time) the change rapidly progressed to where I saw those in the lower years pushing and shoving their way past those in their way, people swearing in front of teachers with little regard to the teachers presence and a general lack of responsibility and respect.

This problem has been allowed to grow into a major problem that threatens those who wish to learn and the future moral and social beliefs of Britain’s future generations.
This chaos has been allowed to spawn because we as a people have been soft on children, children and students need discipline, they need punishment for their mistakes and they need to be told they are wrong.

I foresee that simple measures aren’t enough to deal with this issue, those who refuse to behave at school need removing and punishing, whether that be final or temporary removal, the punishment should fit the situation.

For the more serious offenders military style punishment and education would be needed, and I don’t want to hear its not fair on them, well its tough, it wasn’t fair on the teachers and students who would have had to put up with the offender in the classroom.

For those who are simply bad mannered and lacking in respect, I believe forcing them to put work and time into the society which they apparently have no respect for should be top of the agenda. Have them clean the school ground, pick up litter in the surrounding neighborhood, scrape off chewing gum from under desks, and personally sacrifice their time to learn that they are wrong and what they did was simply not acceptable.

Great thread JAK

Thanks for reading everyone

posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 08:39 AM
Great post Jak and U.K. Wizard, I gave you my vote for Way Above this month. I'll get back to this thread once I've been able to find the sources I wish to quote.

posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 09:17 AM
Britain, just like many Western countries has got to the point where Social problems have began to overwhelm us. No longer are students, teachers or parents doing what they should anymore and this is where the problem lays. Teachers through Secondary and Primary tend to lead a mostly authoritarian style class room, you do as they say and do not question them - which can lead to children being labelled “problems” due to the fact they speak out. I myself did get labelled as a “problem” due to this. During my first year of GCSE education only 1 of my 14 teachers got on with me; because he expected us to question him and discuss things. In my 7 years of State School, I had two teachers sacked due to their behaviour - one threatening to hit me (because I agued with him about Nazi Germany) and another made comments to my parents divorcing (with him actually calling me “scum” because of it.). In the end (during the second year of my GCSE’s) I actually got expelled from School because I broke someone’s arm in my year. The fact that the guy whose arm I broke tried to stab me didn’t mean anything to the School and my head of year - who had never got on with me was fine with my dismissal.

Parents on the other hand tend to run a shockingly different house hold to how many teachers teach; a majority of parents now do not discipline their children. They expect them to “learn” morals out of “thin air” instead of displaying to them from an early age what is right and wrong. I myself was raised in a way where my parents taught me to “question” what is told; but not to be insulting, rude, etc. On the other hand a lot of people I see now allow their children to swear, scream, shout, etc, and these children tend to only be 4/5 year olds. I myself think this is where the problem is. If a child does not know how to behave from an early age they will develop into a “brat” - to use the term. Which is where the problem comes in.

But the major problem is how do we decide and fix this problem? I myself think we need to get children into “Pre-School” in the “worse” areas. I had the unfortunate experience of living in one of the poorer parts of Wolverhampton after my parents divorce - which prior to that I was living in one of the more “well off” parts of Oxford; where we live now. The Social development in the “poorer” parts is shockingly different; children tend to have very little to do - except hang around in “gangs”. Also within these poorer areas drugs and crime tend to be more “rampant”, this coupled with the lack of socialization by parents only forces a “downward” spiral. The child by 13 probably smokes, tries a couple of soft drugs, gets labelled as a problem because they are not at the same level as those around him. Then once they are labelled a vast majority tend to live up to this label. They see themselves as a problem and due to the fact they don’t understand how to not be (due to their parents) they keep being a problem.

So you are left with how to over come this?

Firstly I think the Government needs to attempt to get more children into pre-school between the ages of 3 and 5, this socialization which their parents are not doing can then be done in Pre-School as well as allowing them to “mix” with other children from a much younger age.

Secondly, Primary Education needs to target problem children and attempt to correct it then. Teachers should be able to “discipline” them. I’m not for direct corporal punishment as I don’t think it’d work but jobs that would make them want to behave. Such as the ones U.K. Wizard has already mentioned. If they have to do jobs that “embarrass” them in front of their “peers” it is doubtful that they would do it again. Once they have got out of this trend then it should help to carry it on through School; but each time they “misbehave” they need to be punished. If they keep it up “Specialist” schools for those children need to be set-up to work out the problem.

Thirdly, Parents need to be responsible for their children. It is all well and good to hand out Anti-Social Behaviour Orders on children but these tend to do very little when the parents do not care. Parents need to take an active role in the upbringing of their children - with the Government punishing parents who fail to raise them properly.

Fourth, the Government needs to work on removing the “drug culture” that tends to exist within the worst neighbourhoods as well as give children something to do. Part of the problem is the lack of anything for them to do, which tends to result in children getting drunk, taking drugs, etc, which only makes the situation worse.

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