The Greastest Puzzle: Judaism + Christianity + Islam

I hope this isn't a repost but I'm reading an interesting site (from the Islamic perspective) on the shared history of the three religions of the Middle East.

Granted it would be nice if it weren't sympathetic to one religion over the other, but were it "secular" it'd be deemed "anti-religion" so you really can't win for trying.

Peruse at your leisure, but I was particularly interested in discussing the events of 325 AD as I was speaking with some fundamentalist Christians recently that had no idea of the date's significance.

It's a pretty "fundamental" date in Christianity if you ask me.

[edit on 21-4-2005 by RANT]

Rant before going into your link I am guessing that that day was when the debate about how to go with the trinity was done?

Or the trinity was officially born?ha,ha,

I will open the link now.

OK, its when Christianity went from been a sect to officially become a religion.

Yes and the members of the council of nicea would have done "anything" to make sure Christianity would rule......with lies, falsifications and tampering of texts.

Interesting read
The Council of Nicea is indeed an interesting and a turning point in the history of Christianity.

Islam has a lot in common with Judaism, but they both differ greatly from Christianity in certain things, things that suspiciously all have origin in decisions of the Council of Nicea and Constantine. Example: divinity of Jesus and Trinity.
Both Judaism and Islam believe that there is only one God and that no one is equal to him. Christianity believes that Jesus is God in human form. Add to that the Holy Ghost and you got the Trinity. God is one, but he is three but he is really one that is three... and so on.

In both Judaism and Islam idolatry is non-existant. Christianity is loaded with it.
Then there is no-pork rule in Judaism and Islam, and "hell yeah" pork rule in Christianity, then the circumcision... and so on, quite a few things are on that list.

Christianity kind of stands out there, in this line of religions that all allegedly come from one God.

What I also find interesting are added, changed and deleted verses of the New Testament and the explanations of the term Son of God.
Seems like the true meaning of the words of Jesus got lost in translation.


[edit on 21-4-2005 by paperclip]

Originally posted by marg6043
OK, its when Christianity went from been a sect to officially become a religion.

Yes and the members of the council of nicea would have done "anything" to make sure Christianity would rule......with lies, falsifications and tampering of texts.

Hi Marg,
where do you get Answers from?
You seem to be confident in what you say.

Quoting you /// ''council of nicea would have done "anything" to make sure Christianity would rule......with lies, falsifications and tampering of texts.
Do you know how many were present at the Nicea council?
And what was the reason for such a council?
you cannot go and make accusations just because!
Where is the truth in that?
And for what reason would they lie,and to what did they lie ?
Tampering with the texts?

The WORD of God,being Jesus Christ, gave His WORD which was from the beginning, with God.......
Now i'm not trying to sound nasty, but coming out with answers to what you seem to know nothing about is not valid and holds no truth ....

Do you really beleive that they were lies!
And why lie?
What did the early Fathers of the church have to lie about?
They had nothing to gain........read about the early church fathers...

The church does not ask for money or forcefully tell you to beleive in Christ.
The church(Ekklisia) being the people only want you to know the truth about the Son of God....who came and fullfilled the Old Testament and brought peace...not through violence, but with LOVE and not HATE....
Why do people always find truth in lies and make up lies for the truth?

The early church spread the WORD of God by proclaiming that God became Flesh and that the world should rejoice because DEATH is no more for those that accept Him......and SIN will be no more.

''then shall evil and sin be done away with and death shall be destroyed,since it is written that(1Cor.15,26).....
helen

helen670,

As you can deduce is my personal opinion with some historical truth, and also I have to point out that I do not believe the bible to be the direct word of God or the second testament the exact life of Jesus.

Both the old and the new testament was written by men for men and with men bias, insecurities, hate and illusions.

No, the bible is to human to be divinely inspired.

That is my opinion after much research and searching after all my spiritual grow and my relationship with my creator is very satisfying without the church and the bible.

I do regard religion as a subject that should be study and learn, and I do find fascination of the power it has on the believer.

With all that said you can pretty much make an opinion of my post.

marg.

That site cleared up one question I had at least. WHY is it that Dec 25th played such an important role in SO MANY ancient religions?
The answer: Because in the old calender, Dec 25th was the shortest day in the year. Do'h!

[edit on 22-4-2005 by babloyi]

Originally posted by RANT
I hope this isn't a repost but I'm reading an interesting site (from the Islamic perspective) on the shared history of the three religions of the Middle East.

Granted it would be nice if it weren't sympathetic to one religion over the other, but were it "secular" it'd be deemed "anti-religion" so you really can't win for trying.

Peruse at your leisure, but I was particularly interested in discussing the events of 325 AD as I was speaking with some fundamentalist Christians recently that had no idea of the date's significance.

It's a pretty "fundamental" date in Christianity if you ask me.

[edit on 21-4-2005 by RANT]

Hi Rant...
there is no great puzzle to the events that happened in Nicea.......

quote///In 312 an event occurred which utterly transformed the outward situation of the Church.
As he was riding through France with his army, the Emperor Constantine looked up into the sky and saw a cross of light in front of the sun.
With the cross there was an inscription: In this sign conquer.
As a result of this vision, Constantine became the first Roman Emperor to embrace the Christian faith.
On that day in France a train of events was set in motion which brought the first main period of Church history to an end, and which led to the creation of the Christian Empire of Byzantium.

Constantine stands at a watershed in the history of the Church. With his conversion, the age of the martyrs and the persecutions drew to an end, and the Church of the Catacombs became the Church of the Empire......

members.lycos.co.uk...

Behind all LIES there always lies the TRUTH...
helen...
Also.
members.lycos.co.uk...

[edit on 4/23/2005 by helen670]

325Ad...this is a pivotal point in the history of Christianity. Wow!! Your kidding right???

Paperclip...there is no historical significance to December 25th in Christianity. None. You will however find it in Paganism and pagan traditions that exist unto today. There is no Christian tradition or instruction to celebrate a birthday or glorify ones self in such a manner. You do however find this tradition in Paganism.

The "Sect " of Christians was and still is around from long before 325 ad. Something long forgotten by many who use the name Christian or Christianity.

Helen, Your statement about Constantine and this event being related to the end of the Martyrs and persecutions is incorrect...it only changed form and continued under this church. This is clear by the track record of its history. The Christian body..has by its very founding document.. the Bible ..has no such instruction to carry out persecutions, executions,inquesitions, burnings etc etc etc..or Crusades. No instructions whatsoever to do these things. Any Church operating under these instructions has overstepped its charter and authority and is no longer operating under instructions of the God of the Bible. This is clear ..they have switched Gods somewhere along the line.


As to the words of Jesus being lost Paperclip...they were never lost. Even in Olde Testament times we see the Children of Israel receiving them and learning they have not been following the Word and repenting and turning about in thier conduct.

As to all people worshiping the same God..you can see this is not true..when you see the history of these people..Jew , Muslim and Christian and the fruit they bear by their very history. Islam is one of the bloodiest religions of all time...next to some of the religions of India..the Fugies (spelling) The Jews deviated from thier instructions ..clearly...and we have the records of what happened to them and why. Exactly the deviation in instructions that the Christians are doing today....just like the Jews.
The astonishing thing to me is the huge ignorance among many who claim to be Christian of this history.
Someone early in this board made the statement to the effect that what happened in 325 ad was nothing but a survival technique to keep a system going and hidden ..that is centurys olde...and changing its form to survive into todays times. I agree with them. The amazing thing to me again is that so m any people of claimed intelligence use this group to represent Christianity by default. As if this group represent all of Christianty ..it is not so.!! It is ignorance by the very history and track record of what this group has done. People ought to be wiser than this.
Thanks for your time.
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999
325Ad...this is a pivotal point in the history of Christianity. Wow!! Your kidding right???

Paperclip...there is no historical significance to December 25th in Christianity. None. You will however find it in Paganism and pagan traditions that exist unto today. There is no Christian tradition or instruction to celebrate a birthday or glorify ones self in such a manner. You do however find this tradition in Paganism.

The "Sect " of Christians was and still is around from long before 325 ad. Something long forgotten by many who use the name Christian or Christianity.

Helen, Your statement about Constantine and this event being related to the end of the Martyrs and persecutions is incorrect...it only changed form and continued under this church. This is clear by the track record of its history. The Christian body..has by its very founding document.. the Bible ..has no such instruction to carry out persecutions, executions,inquesitions, burnings etc etc etc..or Crusades. No instructions whatsoever to do these things. Any Church operating under these instructions has overstepped its charter and authority and is no longer operating under instructions of the God of the Bible. This is clear ..they have switched Gods somewhere along the line.


As to the words of Jesus being lost Paperclip...they were never lost. Even in Olde Testament times we see the Children of Israel receiving them and learning they have not been following the Word and repenting and turning about in thier conduct.

As to all people worshiping the same God..you can see this is not true..when you see the history of these people..Jew , Muslim and Christian and the fruit they bear by their very history. Islam is one of the bloodiest religions of all time...next to some of the religions of India..the Fugies (spelling) The Jews deviated from thier instructions ..clearly...and we have the records of what happened to them and why. Exactly the deviation in instructions that the Christians are doing today....just like the Jews.
The astonishing thing to me is the huge ignorance among many who claim to be Christian of this history.
Someone early in this board made the statement to the effect that what happened in 325 ad was nothing but a survival technique to keep a system going and hidden ..that is centurys olde...and changing its form to survive into todays times. I agree with them. The amazing thing to me again is that so m any people of claimed intelligence use this group to represent Christianity by default. As if this group represent all of Christianty ..it is not so.!! It is ignorance by the very history and track record of what this group has done. People ought to be wiser than this.
Thanks for your time.
Orangetom

Hi Orangetom.....

Quote//
1. The Prophet Daniel declared that 4 great Empires will rule on the earth: the Egyptian, the Persian, the Greek and the Roman after which will come the End time and the Return of Christ.
The Roman Empire was both pagan (inaugurated by Augustus Caesar) and Christian (inaugurated by St. Constantine).
The Christian Roman Empire had two phases - the Byzantine and the Russian. Nicholas II and his predecessors were successors to Constantine and those Greek or Byzantine Emperors that followed him.
The capital of the pagan Empire was Rome, of Byzantium, Constantinople or New Rome (“2nd Rome”) and the Capital of Christian Russia was Moscow or Third Rome. See S. F. Platonov, Textbook of Russian History Vol. I Prague, 1924-25, p. 128 f; H. Schraeder, Moskau, Das Dritte Rom. Darmstadt, 1957.

www.stvladimirs.ca...

getting back to the Old Testament and the Church......The Church was from the beginning as said in the Bible/Paradise was lost because of SIN and in order to become available to man again,Christ instituted the Church.........see below...
quote//Adam was put in the Garden – and here the Hebrew words are very interesting – Adam was put into the Garden to serve it (‘abad) and to guard or preserve it (shamar, Genesis 2.15).
Adam was the servant of the Garden, and his work there was his ‘liturgy’. The words are interchangeable.
His role was to guard and protect, and so stewardship is a better word than dominion......The whole of the Book of Revelation is about the return to Paradise.........
At the end of his vision, John sees the river of the water of life flowing from the throne of God. He sees the tree of life growing in those waters, ‘and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations’ (Revelation 22.2).

more from site....

orthodoxeurope.org...

Its amazing how folks will eat up a document that speaks AGAINST christianity, but wont listen a lick to christians tell the other side.

First, RANT, the RCC is not christian. Its catholic. The RCC is the ongoing Pantheon of Rome. You dont have to be christian to know that.
Rome is easier to link with the religion that started in Babylon then it is with christianity. So is Islam for that matter.

The Romans called christians, a sect of Judaism. The truth of the matter is, Judaism is a sect (offshoot...unbelievers) of christianity.
Islam is Judaism but with many twists.

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad."

Abraham was a christian. This means that jews who dont believe like abraham are wrong. He started the whole shebang.

As for muslims, they say they believe in both Jesus and Muhammed.
Deut 18:18 says that the prophet will be like Moses.
Moses was the shiznit. He had ALL the knowledge, and spoke with WHO?
God. He spoke with God.
Jesus ? Same deal. Jesus was stumpin the top dogs on the first ever ABS BBS at the teimple when he was 12 years old. He had the scrolls and was running circles around everyone. Top Dog at age 12.

Now what about muhammed? He couldnt read. He said he spoke to an angel...did you ever read that account? His gabriel was like a dragon...huge...wings from one side of the valley to the other...and almost killed him.
Muhammed never spoke to God.
Moses and Jesus did. Deut 18:18 is complete.

Now...if Jesus was that prophet...and Deut dont say there will be 2....then who is the muhammed dude? A phoney.
He is satans version of the RCC for the folks on the south side of the med.
How so?
The north side had the roman pantheon
The south side had allah the moongod and his friends.
Satan converted the names and took control.

Now its cool to see how the RCC and Islam are drawing near.
How so?
Mary, Fatima..ie...moving toward Goddess worship.
google that one. Modern goddess worship. Pop in a few denomination names if you want.

Now if you just want to slam Christ...the stop with what you got.
But I have given you leads to follow up, if your truely studying this stuff.
Enjoy

Originally posted by jake1997
The Romans called christians, a sect of Judaism. The truth of the matter is, Judaism is a sect (offshoot...unbelievers) of christianity.
Islam is Judaism but with many twists.

That makes no sense at all. Judaism came before Christianity, how is it that Juaism is a sect (which you further misdefine by calling sect=unbelievers?)?

Originally posted by jake1997
Abraham was a christian. This means that jews who dont believe like abraham are wrong. He started the whole shebang.

How was Abraham a Christian?
Did he believe in Christ? No
Did he believe that Christ's sacrfice had saved him? No
Had he ever even heard of Christ? No

Originally posted by jake1997
As for muslims, they say they believe in both Jesus and Muhammed.
Deut 18:18 says that the prophet will be like Moses.
Moses was the shiznit. He had ALL the knowledge, and spoke with WHO?
God. He spoke with God.
Jesus ? Same deal. Jesus was stumpin the top dogs on the first ever ABS BBS at the teimple when he was 12 years old. He had the scrolls and was running circles around everyone. Top Dog at age 12.

Now what about muhammed? He couldnt read. He said he spoke to an angel...did you ever read that account? His gabriel was like a dragon...huge...wings from one side of the valley to the other...and almost killed him.
Muhammed never spoke to God.
Moses and Jesus did. Deut 18:18 is complete.

Muhammad did speak to God. According to Islam he ascended to the highest point in heaven and spoke with God directly. Interesting you brought up Deut 18:18. The prophet was meant to be "like Moses" and "from among his brethren". "Son of God" doesn't satisfy any of those criteria (all according to the website posted. Check it out there).

Originally posted by jake1997
Now...if Jesus was that prophet...and Deut dont say there will be 2....then who is the muhammed dude? A phoney.

Didn't Jesus give the criteria for new prophets? What they should be like, what they should not be like, etc? Why would he if there was to be no other prophet.

Originally posted by jake1997
He is satans version of the RCC for the folks on the south side of the med.
How so?
The north side had the roman pantheon
The south side had allah the moongod and his friends.
Satan converted the names and took control.

Now its cool to see how the RCC and Islam are drawing near.
How so?
Mary, Fatima..ie...moving toward Goddess worship.
google that one. Modern goddess worship. Pop in a few denomination names if you want.

Ahhhh...here it is. The epitome of tolerance. The "Islam is the spawn of satan"/"RCC is the spawn of satan" arguement. Works very well if you don't want to listen to what they say. What is this "Roman Pantheon"? Are you talking about the trinity?
Allah is the moon god? Sorry, you are mixing it up again, as any study of ancient Arabia can clarify. The moon god in the pantheon was known as "Hubal" or "Sin". Allah was the chief God in the pantheon. Totally unrelated to the moon god.
Mary is worshipped? Most Catholics here would vehemently disagree with you. Fatima was also the name of one of Muhammad's daughters. Not connected in anyway to Mary. Fatima is certainly not worshipped.

Sorry to come of sounding angry and spiteful. Just showing you that there is another point of view that is "equally right" to yours.

All the questions you asked are already answered in my post.

If you werent too busy trying to bash christianity, you would have noticed my answer about abraham

you would also know the difference between someone who follows christ, and someone who dont, and that the rcc and islam dont.
You confuse tolerate with accept. Dont do that and it will clear up some problems.
Im not into the Unity thing. To quote a once popular move, 'dare kin be only one'.

Christ said HE is the way, the truth, the gate...

Jesus said that anyone who has seen him, has seen God.

Its amazing how folks will eat up a document that speaks AGAINST christianity, but wont listen a lick to christians tell the other side.


[edit on 23-4-2005 by jake1997]

I wasn't bashing Christianity! I was questioning the points you made. What makes you think that "your version" of Christianity is right and the others are wrong?
I still don't understand your answer about Abraham. The verse you mentioned says that Abraham saw Jesus's day and was glad. Despite the weird and confusing structure of the whole passage, it says nothing about Abraham following Jesus. Seeing "Jesus's day" could even be a referrence to seeing a time when "goodness" and "following of one God" was widespread. Something that Abraham and Jesus (perhaps to a lesser extent) experienced.

Christ said he was the way, the truth, the gate, and that anyone who has seen him has seen God, BUT he never said he was God. What he said could just as easily be interpreted to mean that what he taught was the true way to God.

I am very willing to listen to what you are saying. I didn't "eat up" anything from the other website. I maintain a healthy skepticism of what they say. They do, after all, have an agenda. Same as you.

The obelisk in Saint Peters square is very telling.
No where in Christianity do you see the building of huge buildings and edifices to a organization. Nor do you see the building of obelisks. You do however see them all over in Paganism.

The very word ...Obelisk...is O baal's lisk... the baal shafts of fertility.the occult gods male member. This is not Christianity. This should be obvious to Christians. This tells one what the organization is ..you dont have to go to school to figure it out .it is right in front of you.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Mat 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


This again shows that Abraham would be with Jesus, while the jews of the day, would not.
Notice it says Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. No Ishmael.

and then

Mat 22:42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
Mat 22:43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Mat 22:45 If David then call him, Lord, how is he his son?

There you have both David and jesus calling Jesus , Lord.

Also, only God has power to forgive sins, yet Jesus says that HE forgives sins. This is why they wanted him dead because they did not believe HE was the Son