Alabama court rules frozen embryos are children, chilling IVF advocates

a reply to: Degradation33

Why woould i need any extra womb at all?

Also .. if i was looking....

www.nature.com...

a reply to: Another_Nut

I mean ... Im not arguing that an embryo is a person...soooo....

What are you arguing, in this thread entitled "Alabama court rules frozen embryos are children, chilling IVF advocates"?

What are you arguing when you say an embryo has a right to a womb. What are you arguing when you say, "They have all the rights of a person under the jurisdiction of the u.s"?

DId you just misunderstand the topic?

a reply to: Sookiechacha
well... like i said on page one or two....

a viable human, with all the rights afforded to any person, is created at implantation.. this court ruling is silly...

im saying that a viable person has the right to life.

im saying that promoting the killing of unborn children is evil perpetuated by the evil or gullible.

but

when people try to deny the science or constitution , i say so.. like i have on the last 2 pages ..

a reply to: Another_Nut

So, you don't have any opinion about the rights frozen embryos, just on implanted embryos?

Got it.

a reply to: Another_Nut

Use a Gazorpazorp sex-bot for all I care, I'm calling out the absurdity of NOW going after a medical procedure with a history of "BIOLOGICAL WASTE" that was never noticed until now. The discarded embryos, even healthy ones, have always been discarded.

Didn't matter a year ago. Now, because some conservative judge wants to virtue signal about the sanctity of life with his ruling, you've set a precedent beyond Alabama for every person (that may or may not go through with it) needing help with conception.

It is another brick in the religious wall being built on the godliness of now hypothetical test tube children. Hope we never master cloning.

This is coming at every angle now. Any segue for another ruling. I feel It's a tell of the motis operandi of those riding that pendulum back to power. It appears many want to ride it right to a national ban.

As much as the 2008 Unborn Victims of Crime Act set up Dobbs eventually, this might as well force it towards the desired federal ban.

And screw what 60% of the country thinks.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

i do... i dont believe they are protected... and it doesnt have rights..

a reply to: Threadbarer

Citizenship starts at birth... Life starts at inplantation...

Ez

a reply to: Sookiechacha

I believe you have to be a citizen to be claimed on taxes

While the unborn are people they are not citizens

are you ok? you seem to be seeing things because i was , originally, replying to TB and you on when a person gains citizenship... since neither of you seemed to know.. then you went off about..

I agree that embryos are not citizens. But if you insist on them being "people", what is their legal status then, a resident alien? Legally, they have to have some national classification for them to be under the jurisdiction of the United States, according to the 14th Amendment.

to which i replied to you ... soooo...

get help.

a reply to: Degradation33

wow that was a massive rant about religion and how you hate things.. but i was just answering your question and asking my own.. good job on deflecting .

Use a Gazorpazorp sex-bot for all I care, I'm calling out the absurdity of NOW going after a medical procedure with a history of "BIOLOGICAL WASTE" that was never noticed until now. The discarded embryos, even healthy ones, have always been discarded.

see ...heres the problem with...some.. people... you dont even know what you are arguing or with who. i mean.. i agree with this statement

It is another brick in the religious wall being built on the godliness of now hypothetical test tube children. Hope we never master cloning.

im not religous at all... i just believe in the value of human life.. and i used to be pro abortion but the history, law , customs and biology all agree

a viable human is created at implantation. ez as

As much as the 2008 Unborn Victims of Crime Act set up Dobbs eventually, this might as well force it towards the desired federal ban.

And screw what 60% of the country thinks.

good. the constitution was written , not to force on the 49% what the 51% wanted.... it was to protect the 1% from the 99%

idc how many people are in favor of murder..especially when they have been brainwashed over the past 50 years....

killing is wrong .

a reply to: Another_Nut

are you ok? you seem to be seeing things because i was , originally, replying to TB and you on when a person gains citizenship... since neither of you seemed to know.. then you went off about..

Oh no, I know that one has to born in order to gain citizenship or any other legal status of recognition, according to the 14th Amendment.

The framers of the 14th didn't create a special class of personhood for the unborn. They just didn't.
They never required to have unborn children counted, even at a fraction of a person, in the constitutionally mandated census, either.

So, while I understand that you, personally, have a belief that life begins when an embryo implants into the uterus, the constitution makes no such distinction. It doesn't classify the unborn at conception, at implantation, at a pseudo heartbeat or even at fetal viability. The US Constitution only recognizes the class of people who have already been born.

a reply to: Another_Nut

wow that was a massive rant about religion and how you hate things.. but i was just answering your question and asking my own.. good job on deflecting .

In which you proposed wasting money using artificial wombs to make sure every embryo (including those with often fatal abnormalities) is given a chance.

It's absurd. And not a realistic ask of IVF.

You can't do this without waste. There is no IVF without defective embryos and discarded life. And it's been happening as long as there's been IVF. Always been 50-65% discarded. Without it getting caught up in this before. Not like this.

I stand by it being another angle to undermine any and all abortion laws.

see ...heres the problem with...some.. people... you dont even know what you are arguing or with who. i mean.. i agree with this statement

Throttling back then.

im not religous at all... i just believe in the value of human life.. and i used to be pro abortion but the history, law , customs and biology all agree

a viable human is created at implantation

It's developing life from the get go. It's up to the woman to decide what that value is.

One may whole-heartedly believe every human life is precious and valuable like yourself. And Feel it unconscionable to terminate it at any point.

Another may think it's a mass of dividing cells without the slightest degree of sentience and value until viability.

I think you've committed at 5th months (22 weeks). And I'm later than most. But I also don't disagree with the Coloado woman that says it isn't life until it's born out of her. And if that's what their state's consensus is, they chose it for a reason.

That rant sees the writing on the wall. It sees Colorado's laws will be put in a (mostly) religious crosshair and axed by a minority opinion. That makes it through congress on GOP toadies that go against their own states voters.

For the people, even if they don't know what's best.

I am horrified by the prospect of that happening.

good. the constitution was written , not to force on the 49% what the 51% wanted.... it was to protect the 1% from the 99%

The Supreme Court's approval fell to 38% after their 50 year commemoration of Title IX. Followed by referenda in Kansas, Kentucky, and Ohio.

And then you look at those 3 states. Why wouldn't that repeat in most states? I mean, Kentucky rejected a constitutional ban. It speaks louder than the majority opinion's logic, as written by Justice Ragnar Redbeard.

The majority doesn't think the life is special enough though.

killing is wrong .

Killing HUMANS is wrong. We are so special we can kill everything else for whatever. Food mostly.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

i know you wont understand this.. because ive tried to tell you many times before... but the constitution ABSOLUTLEY does not...

only recognizes the class of people who have already been born.

i will post this once more in hopes you will get it but ..since its true and goes against everything you believe ... you wont ...

now

the 14th amendment...

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

lets take that first sentence...

All persons born or naturalized in the United States,

now lets take out the "born or" part

All persons naturalized in the United States,

we understand this to make sense..
step 1:be a person (no making monkeys citizenship you must be a person.. a human being)
step 2 : be naturalized (this is the act you must undergo, as a person, to ...)
outcome: citizenship

now lets put back in the "born" and remove the "naturalized"

All persons born in the United States,

this also makes sense
step 1:be a person (no making monkeys citizenship you must be a person.. a human being)
step 2 : be born (this is the act you must undergo, as a person, to ...)
outcome: citizenship

so when you say

The framers of the 14th didn't create a special class of personhood for the unborn.

they didnt need to , why would they?

... all you have to be , in order to gain protection is ...

nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

they didnt have to make unborn people some special type of person ALL people born or unborn...are protected.



a reply to: Degradation33

now you are just being abtuse, bad faith or are just mentally deficient...

from page one..

a reply to: Dandandat3
Now this is a silly ruling.
A viable human is created at inplantation
Until then it an unviable human.
The end.

so i fyou think im ...

Throttling back then.

then im doing it in time also ...

just me being amazing me i guess

a reply to: Degradation33

I have similar views to 22 weeks being the upper limit of abortion as post 24 weeks sentience and pain responses begin to develop and the odds of survival become greater than 50%.

Having as low as a few days/hours after fertilisation is plain bizarre as chances of making to full term are ~1% and would mean imprisoning millions of women for manslaughter through no fault of their own such are the probabilities and practicalities of pregnancy if such rulings were meant to be consistent.

There's several hundred orders of magnitude of complexity between a couple of cells and a few hundred billion; trying to pretend they're one and the same is like pretending every lottery ticket is a winner or conidering every sub-atomic particle to be a human embryo due to laws of entropy.

Why is it that Conservatives can't help themselves from attacking women's reproductive rights in big election years? Do they want to lose more races; is there an advantage to holding enough power to influence parts of the country but not enough power to actually be in charge?

Why is it the Liberals like to point out that religion is dying every chance they can get; but then act like we are one steps away from a totalitarian theocratic government every time the religions right makes a sound? Is there an advantage to being a perpetual victim?

a reply to: Dandandat3

Elon and his fan boys on the right are ranting about birth control being evil. Other very religious leaders are spouting that recreational sex is ruining the country.

They do not want to stop at abortion or now IVF.

Meanwhile Alabama stopped a program allowing school children to get a lunch in the summer. It is absolutely not about any care for "the children".

a reply to: Dandandat3

Time to make some frozen embryos and put them on my tax return.

a reply to: frogs453

We also have politicians talking about it. Michigan state Representative Josh Schriver made a post about having politicians looking into birth control.

It's no secret that Speaker Johnson has supported getting rid of IVF and birth control.

Jack Posobiec's speech yesterday at CPAC succinctly encapsulates what the end game is for these Christian Nationalists:

Welcome to the end of democracy," Posobiec said, also referring to the Capitol riots. "We are here to overthrow it completely. We didn't get all the way there on January 6, but we will endeavor to get rid of it and replace it with this right here."

Posobiec then held up his fist, and added: "All glory is not to government. All glory to God."

Source

a reply to: Threadbarer

Yes, I've seen that. Alito is also rambling about Obergefell again. We seem to be sliding down the slope.

We see what happens when religious zealots start making laws.

a reply to: frogs453

On the topic of Obergefell, Tennessee just enacted a law that lets public officials refuse to perform same sex marriages. So expect that to show up on the SCOTUS docket in the next couple years.

originally posted by: Threadbarer
a reply to: frogs453

We also have politicians talking about it. Michigan state Representative Josh Schriver made a post about having politicians looking into birth control.

It's no secret that Speaker Johnson has supported getting rid of IVF and birth control.

Jack Posobiec's speech yesterday at CPAC succinctly encapsulates what the end game is for these Christian Nationalists:

Welcome to the end of democracy," Posobiec said, also referring to the Capitol riots. "We are here to overthrow it completely. We didn't get all the way there on January 6, but we will endeavor to get rid of it and replace it with this right here."

Posobiec then held up his fist, and added: "All glory is not to government. All glory to God."

Source

This is why the left can’t meme.
At first I was giving the libs the benefit of the doubt when I saw all the fake outrage.
Turns out it’s not fake outrage.
You people just cannot tell when somebody is being sarcastic.
Hopefully the wiser ones will chuckle when they finally figure it out.

Jack Posobiec's speech yesterday at CPAC succinctly encapsulates what the end game is for these Christian Nationalists:

As for the end game, here he states what it is…

My plan to end democracy: - End paper ballots - Remove all voter ID - Replace in-person voting with low integrity options - Place state assets in all media - Censor social media - Lock up protesters - Arrest the opposition leader 4 times
Remove opposition from the ballot Flood the nation with millions of invaders Lock up bloggers who publish govt documents called Wikileaks Steal Catherine Herridge’s confidential source documents
twitter.com...

Hope this helps 🤣

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: bastion

Science? NOW you want to talk about SCIENCE?

Science is ignored in every debate discussing the 937 "genders".
Science is ignored in every debate discussing climate change.


Science is ignored routinely.

Now science, if you want to talk science, science says that the fertilized egg, is genetically a human being. It is just in a different stage in it's development than you or I.

Not just science (s)he suddenly wants to talk about, but the Constitution, too. They've butchered science and the Constitution both to further their ideology when it suits them.

a reply to: Vermilion

Hmm... not what he said at all. He posted that hours and hours after his speech. He just conviently forgot that part of his speech?

originally posted by: frogs453
a reply to: Vermilion

Hmm... not what he said at all. He posted that hours and hours after his speech. He just conviently forgot that part of his speech?

His speech about the ‘end of democracy’ was linked by Threadbarer who I replied to.
The libs and the media got bent because they couldn’t see the humor in it, typical.
He then posted on X more sarcasm laying out his ‘end of democracy’ which I then provided here for your pleasure hoping it would make sense that it was a joke because we have to spoon feed this stuff to you apparently.
I truly hope you get it now because I feel like a moron having to actually explain it.