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Showdown With Iran

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posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 12:29 PM
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The Iran nuclear topic is heating up again, and here are a few news stories to review.

In a Heritage Foundation address to be broadcast on C-Span2, author Jerome Corsi warned events are unfolding that likely will lead to a showdown with Iran this year.

www.worldnetdaily.com...

200 million casualties

Corsi pointed out the cleric-led regime has said it's willing to take 200 million casualties in the world as long as a nuclear conflagration ultimately destroyed the state of Israel.

They mean it when they say "death to Israel" and "death to the United States," he said.

Iran Plays the World for a Fool

Iranian President Mohammad Khatami is on a well-publicized tour to France, trying to convince the world that a deal with the European Union will permit the mullahs to retain their nuclear program, simply for a promise not to develop nuclear weapons.

Photo opportunities with French President Jacques Chiraq show handshakes and smiling faces. Khatami in his black turban, expensive mullah robes, with his precisely trimmed beard and neat thin-rim eyeglasses looked quite the respectable diplomat, ready to address UNESCO, to be followed by a diplomatic stop-off in Rome to attend the pope's funeral. Iran flooded the news wires with optimistic reports that a deal with the European Union would set a new framework, reinterpreting the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty for years to come.

www.worldnetdaily.com...

Will Iran Really be Attacked by America

www.greaterkashmir.com...

Some American military analysts believe China could now defeat Taiwan before American forces could arrive at the scene, leaving a political decision about whether to attack, even though Taiwan would already be lost.




posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 01:38 PM
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Well although that may come to a shock to some Americans I can tell you this. It was obvious from the start. Not only Iran is interested in the demise of the US and Israel but much of the Arab world.

I recall meeting an Iranian student in my university in the early 90s. I overheard him discuss politics with a friend of mine. This Iranian was studying toward his masters in nuclear physics at Stonybrook University. We got on the subject of the Madrid conference. He said it would never work. Peace in the middle east, he said, would only be acheived if the Jews left the middle east. His view for peace would be to instill an Islamic empire in the middle east as existed during the Ottoman empire. I assume he prefers a shiite caliphate than a Sunni one. His vision was obviously a taken from his home country of Iran.
These students were allowed to study in the US such subjects as nuclear physics, chemistry etc. because their country signed a nonproliferation agreement. Of course their country had no intention of ever keeping that pact. Ironically, it is with indirect US assistance that their nuclear ambitions are materializing.
Eventually the entire free world will need to deal with this threat - It is not to be taken lightly.



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 04:29 PM
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A few comments I should make before I write this post.

I am not pro-islamic, rather, more on the "anti" islamic side. I have nothing against jews as people.

In regards to the land that is being contested by the Jews and Muslims in the middle east, historically, the Islamic faith has more of a right to. Research it, its a fact. The only reason the US backs Israel in this, is because Jews have a VERY large influence in this country, economically, and politically. Simple as that.

And IRAN? Ha. Mark my word, Mid to End of June, the United States will invade Iran. And if the Iranians get sick of us, they'll probably just nuke their own oil fields to give the US no viable reason to stay. You just watch. Iran has significantly more money than Iraq and Afghanistan COMBINED. Not to mention that Iranians are exponentially more psychotic when it comes to patriotism as compared to Afghanis or Iraqis.

I am acutally looking forward to watch us go in there like idiots, get our asses kicked, and hopefully come back taught a lesson, so that these STUPID crusades of global domination stop. Maybe then the rest of the world will stop hating us.



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 05:54 PM
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I am acutally looking forward to watch us go in there like idiots, get our asses kicked, and hopefully come back taught a lesson...


Ok, you know nothing about U.S. military strength. It all depends on what the U.S. objective is. If we want to preserve the infrastructure and not kill civilians then the war will be a little tough for us. If we just want to level the whole country then the war would not be so hard. Either way the U.S. will not lose.



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23

Ok, you know nothing about U.S. military strength. It all depends on what the U.S. objective is. If we want to preserve the infrastructure and not kill civilians then the war will be a little tough for us. If we just want to level the whole country then the war would not be so hard. Either way the U.S. will not lose.


Typical comment from the population which believes that the US is untouchable, infallable, and holier than thou.

Yes, going in and leveling Iran would be VERY easy. But, we would DEFINITLY lose if the military did that. What do I mean by losing? There would be a worldwide uproar, every militant with a shread of dislike for the US would suddenly LOATHE us. We'd be royally F'ked. Everyone would come after us.

But, then again, they cant and wont do that. They'll have to go in and "play nice" per se. And by having to do that, a lot of Americans are going to die. The military force of men will dwindle, a draft will be initiated, and I'll move to Switzerland
Ill be damned if i'm gonna fight to fatten some idiot politicians bank account, ill let less intelligent GRUNTS fight these imperialistic wars while those of us with half a brain stay back and watch.


Throughout history, every empire has fallen. The US will be no exception. 200 yrs of imperialism will come to a crashing halt with how fast things move thesedays. I hope everyone has a plan to get out like I do...




posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 07:23 PM
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If we do 'go into' Iran it won't be a full-scale assault with the intent of regime change. It will be a quick surgical strike using Tomahawks and some guided munitions from F-117's, B-2's, and possibly B-52's to take out Iran's nuclear program, or at least disable it as best we can. I envisage a true 'shock and awe' strike where we deal one swift, crushing blow to Iran's nuke sites. We're not going to do this one on the ground, with the exception of special forces doing targeting and BDA missions.

It'll be a classic US airstrike. As the aircraft are en route, TLAMs will take out air defense sites, command and control centers, and hopefully catch aircraft on the runways with cluster munitions. The the F-117's will mop up any remaining air defences and remnants of the Iranian air force, paving the way for the B-2's and B-52's to take out the nuke sites. By the time we hear about it on Fox news, the bulk of the attack will be over and we'll be re-striking targets based on BDA.



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 08:44 PM
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I am surprised that someone would think that the rest of the world should love us. Why should they love us? What have we done for them? We never run to their aid when tsunamis cause billions of dollars of damage and kill hundreds of thousands. We never send them money and expect nothing in return, do we?

Do you think for one moment that they will love us for giving them money? Not a chance. In fact, all it will do is cause more hatred for us when the gravy train runs dry. "Those fat Americans think they are so much better than us. How dare they not give us any more money."


Originally posted by afterdark
There would be a worldwide uproar, every militant with a shread of dislike for the US would suddenly LOATHE us. We'd be royally F'ked. Everyone would come after us.


The reality is that they ALREADY hate us and want us dead. No matter what we do, they will hate us. If we feed them and support them, they will hate us. If we get rid of the people that oppress them, they hate us. If we teach them how to be self sufficient they will hate us. If we give them democracy, and let them think for themselves, they will hate us. In fact, they will hate us more because they will miss being told what to do. The countries in that region that have been given a democracy, have voted for an Islamic state like Iran has.

There is nothing about us to love. We have things and they do not. They may love our things, but will never love us.


Originally posted by afterdark
... and I'll move to Switzerland
Ill be damned if i'm gonna fight to fatten some idiot politicians bank account, ill let less intelligent GRUNTS fight these imperialistic wars while those of us with half a brain stay back and watch.


I hope that you would have the sense to not mention those feelings to someone in uniform who is making sacrifices so that you can have the freedom to make posts like that... oops too late, I am sure a couple have seen it already. Most of the people in uniform are the greatest people you would have the privilage of knowing. They put their tail on the line for you, while you would turn and run instead of helping them.

You may want to ask yourself one day what IS worth fighting for.

Have you ever lived outside the US? It is much different than you would imagine. Have you been a minority? Have you ever been hated? You will be seen as an idiot no mattter where you go and no matter what you tell people you believe in, they will hate you and all you stand for. They may smile in front of your face, but as soon as you are gone... the truth comes out.

So, enjoy your stay in Switzerland. You may want to learn another language and get a good education or you may find it hard to get a good job because you will be far less educated than anyone else there. What makes you think they will allow you to stay if you cannot contribute to their society?

Some good questions to consider.


Originally posted by afterdark
Throughout history, every empire has fallen. The US will be no exception. 200 yrs of imperialism will come to a crashing halt with how fast things move thesedays. I hope everyone has a plan to get out like I do...



Your attitude is exactly why empires fall. No one cares what happens to the place that their grandfathers and fathers sacrificed everything for. Feel free to exit anytime that you wish. People have sacrificed themselves so that you can.

"Better to fight for something than live for nothing." George S Patton

[edit on 11-4-2005 by xman_in_blackx]



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 09:12 PM
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The reality is that they ALREADY hate us and want us dead. No matter what we do, they will hate us. If we feed them and support them, they will hate us. If we get rid of the people that oppress them, they hate us. If we teach them how to be self sufficient they will hate us. If we give them democracy, and let them think for themselves, they will hate us. In fact, they will hate us more because they will miss being told what to do. The countries in that region that have been given a democracy, have voted for an Islamic state like Iran has.
Just listen to your self. “If we give them this and if we let them do”. Why don’t you just stay the Fu(k off of other countries and see if they hate you or not. There are more than 240 countries in the world. Have you ever wondered why everyone just hates you? And don’t give me this BS about we have this and they don’t. Many countries have more than you can handle. Its just your media feeding you BS making you feel you are the best. Hey, at least its working



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by persian
Just listen to your self. “If we give them this and if we let them do”. Why don’t you just stay the Fu(k off of other countries and see if they hate you or not.


If it were up to me, I WOULD stay out of other countries. I wouldn't donate any money to their causes at all, either.

I wouldn't have handed Iran any money during the 60s or had the Shah as my puppet (as you would say) the same Shah who redistributed the land so that 1.5 million tenant farmers became plot owners and gave women the right to vote. I would not have given Iran money in the early 70's so that they could become the region's strongest military power at the time.

I would also have not invited Iranian students to enter the country to attend our colleges. I would imagine that then we would have had no hostages in Lebanon because we wouldn't have interfered.

I would not have sent any money or aid of any kind to Iran after the earthquake of 1990.

I would not have lifted a finger to help in any way. This way, Iranians could fully enjoy their free press and their democracy. They can enjoy the wonders of freedom and opportunity that the current hardliners have made for them. Ahhhh. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is what Iran is currently all about. There are no demonstrations there because everyone is so happy with the way things are. I am sure that you can question authority at any time without retribution or fear of going to some dark prison.


Originally posted by persian
And don’t give me this BS about we have this and they don’t. Many countries have more than you can handle. Its just your media feeding you BS making you feel you are the best. Hey, at least its working


Yes, I know how much Iran has to offer. They make the best automobiles, music, and movies that are enjoyed all over the world. They make the best aircraft and space vehicles, which are the envy of everyone. When I think of luxury, the first place that comes to mind is Iran. Anything you can dream becomes reality. Iran is so full of opportunity, that there are hundreds of thousands of new millionaires grown in its economic abundance. The evil West is pale in comparison.

Yes, I was brainwashed, but I am afraid you were brainwashed, too. At least I don't have to worry about the secret police visiting me for disagreeing with the government's policy.


Sep

posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by xman_in_blackx
Yes, I know how much Iran has to offer. They make the best automobiles


I am glad that you have noticed the growth in our automobile industry. O think saying it the best in the world is an exageration but we are doing alright for ourselves after around 30 years of isolation. Since you seem to be intrested in this industry here are two websites

www.ikco.com...
www.saipacorp.com...




Originally posted by xman_in_blackxmusic, and movies that are enjoyed all over the world.


Well there are a few restrications on the spreading of our movies and music because of our foriegn relations, but Iran has some of the best writers and directors in the world. One of them for example is Majid Majidi who won many awards in the west and the east, mostly because of his great movie, the colour of paradise. Here is his website:
www.cinemajidi.com...

As far as music is concerned, in Iran, because of the diffrent cultures that live in Iran there are many types of facinating music. There is ofcourse the traditional music, which most of the westerners cannot relate to, because they dont undrestand the meanings, I mean it is hard to translate songs and poems.


Originally posted by xman_in_blackxThey make the best aircraft and space vehicles, which are the envy of everyone. When I think of luxury, the first place that comes to mind is Iran. Anything you can dream becomes reality. Iran is so full of opportunity, that there are hundreds of thousands of new millionaires grown in its economic abundance.



That is kind of an exageration, but Iran is having a kind of economic boom because of the recent oil prices. Because of that many of the industries are growing very fast. For example there is plans to invest 30 billion dollars in the tourism industry in the next 5 years. Our automobile industries are growing very fast as well. Because of the plans of recent president parts of Iranian industry ae being privatized and that is why many of the Europians and Asians are coming to Iran to invest.

I am suprised you give so much creadit to our space and aviation programs. We have plans to launch several satlites within the next few years. We produce some civilian and some military aircraft but they are by no means "the best", that being said considering that we have been under sanctions, we are doing alright.

And as for luxury, there are several hotels being built in the Kish island, specifically for tourists. One of them being the seven star hotel, the flower of the east, here is a website: www.floweroftheeast.com/ There are several other hotels like the five star darius hotel that has been built already. Maybe you have visited and that is why you think of luxury when you think of Iran?

[edit on 11-4-2005 by Sep]



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 01:58 AM
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Originally posted by Sep
...Because of the plans of recent president parts of Iranian industry ae being privatized and that is why many of the Europians and Asians are coming to Iran to invest.


Investors? Privatization? This doesn't sound like the old clerics talking at all.

Personally, I would like to see the reformists in Iran gain power (through no influence from my country.) Religion has no place in government when it tells people how to live or can imprison those who do not follow their doctrines. The people need to be able to vote for their leaders. Does your country have religious or secret police? Would you be afraid to tell me if you did?


Originally posted by Sep
We have plans to launch several satlites within the next few years. We produce some civilian and some military aircraft but they are by no means "the best", that being said considering that we have been under sanctions, we are doing alright.


You forgot to link the Iranian Space Agency A paranoid American would wonder if this technology could be used as a delivery system?

Sanctions? Would this have anything to do with wanting nuclear weapons?

This is the gist of the entire thread. As long as Iran has nuclear ambitions and their ruler is a religious one, I would worry that someone who has funded hezzbollah for so long could assist those who desire the death of the US. Why would an abundant and intellectual society such as Iran want nuclear weapons? What is to gain from them? How could a peaceful Iran walk down a path of violence? Couldn't an oil rich Iran use oil to create electricity? Wouldn't it be cheaper and far less toxic to the people of Iran? Especially if Iran's booming industries are gaining such momentum.

How is your country planning on getting rid of the toxic radioactive waste if it is for electricity? How expensive would that be?

Even the US is embarrassed to use nuclear energy because it is so costly to clean up.

How much influence do the hardliners have in mainstream Iran today?

Even though I see big changes ( like people skiing near Tehran eating fast food ) I still wonder if these are just ordinary people who have no influence on what their government is doing. Would they allow their leaders to launch a nuclear weapon at the US? Would they allow their government to sell or hand one over to Hezzbollah?

If the answer is yes, then we cannot allow Iran to see their nuclear ambitions come to fruition at any cost.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 04:05 AM
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I was always under the impression that empires fell due to getting overextended, running out of money and other nations ganging up and carving them apart (like the europeans did to the Ottoman empire).

I rather doubt that the Iranians will initiate a nuclear war, the image we get from the media of millions of people screaming for the blood of western civilians presents an exraordinarily slanted view. Granted, they feel rather peeved that they are demonised as a nation.

Scares come and go, in the fifties everone was utterly convinced that the "godless commies" were going to burn the world in their effort to create a socialist paradise. Angry, scaremongering rhetoric inflames issues, it doesn't solve them.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 04:17 AM
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Originally posted by xman_in_blackx

Yes, I know how much Iran has to offer. They make the best automobiles, music, and movies that are enjoyed all over the world. They make the best aircraft and space vehicles, which are the envy of everyone. When I think of luxury, the first place that comes to mind is Iran. Anything you can dream becomes reality. Iran is so full of opportunity, that there are hundreds of thousands of new millionaires grown in its economic abundance. The evil West is pale in comparison.


I'm so glad that Sep set you straight on your attempt at sarcasm.

Here's a couple ATS threads on Iran:

Tehran - Mega Capital of Iran - Photo Album (Bush doesn't want you to see this side of Iran!)

Iran Khodro hits 2,000 car per day record.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 04:32 AM
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Wow, makes London look like a dump (which in many ways it is)! I particularly like the look of the clean and tidy Metro.

Cheers for the link to the pics, makes it even more clear that these people love their country and probably wouldn't want to recklessly get it destroyed!



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by afterdark
A few comments I should make before I write this post.

I am not pro-islamic, rather, more on the "anti" islamic side. I have nothing against jews as people.

In regards to the land that is being contested by the Jews and Muslims in the middle east, historically, the Islamic faith has more of a right to. Research it, its a fact. The only reason the US backs Israel in this, is because Jews have a VERY large influence in this country, economically, and politically. Simple as that.

And IRAN? Ha. Mark my word, Mid to End of June, the United States will invade Iran. And if the Iranians get sick of us, they'll probably just nuke their own oil fields to give the US no viable reason to stay. You just watch. Iran has significantly more money than Iraq and Afghanistan COMBINED. Not to mention that Iranians are exponentially more psychotic when it comes to patriotism as compared to Afghanis or Iraqis.

I am acutally looking forward to watch us go in there like idiots, get our asses kicked, and hopefully come back taught a lesson, so that these STUPID crusades of global domination stop. Maybe then the rest of the world will stop hating us.



World domination is not a goal of the U.S. Neither is war. Why make such a statement when you have men and women overseas protecting you, me, and everyone else? They are putting their butts on the line so we do not have to fight these people on OUR LAND. When we went into Afgan. and Iraq we went in to find those who were responsible for the 911 crisis. For the large part we have been very sucessful in preventing another attack.
Would you rather the war be brought to the U.S. or on the homelands of our allies? Personally, I wish they were no war but if it is going to be fought, take the fight to them.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 09:34 AM
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I agree, we should just leave other countries alone. No more help for anyone who doesnt APPRECIATE it anymore. Let them fight their own wars, grow their own food, create their own medicine, work for their own MONEY, build their own tanks and planes, and teach themselves how to be smarter without us. Maybe they will stop wanting to be like people they hate so much.

People hate us cause we stick our noses in their business Supposedly. So lets try something else for a change, lets just let them all DIE, and kill themSELVES. Lets let them make their nukes, and opress their own people, that way, their bad chioces might cause the whole middle east to go up in flames, and that is probably not that bad of a thing. The majority of the people their are evil, or atleast preach evil. It seems like most the hate in the world somehow originates from over there or from their beliefs.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by Termite197
Lets let them make their nukes, and opress their own people, that way, their bad chioces might cause the whole middle east to go up in flames, and that is probably not that bad of a thing. The majority of the people their are evil, or atleast preach evil. It seems like most the hate in the world somehow originates from over there or from their beliefs.


I'll take it you've been to the middle east then? or you were hopefully being sarcastic. Most of the hate originates there? i don't think you need me to provide examples of hate in the west, you'll be able to do that for youself once you let go of that east=savage mentality


Sep

posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by xman_in_blackx
Personally, I would like to see the reformists in Iran gain power (through no influence from my country.) Religion has no place in government when it tells people how to live or can imprison those who do not follow their doctrines. The people need to be able to vote for their leaders. Does your country have religious or secret police? Would you be afraid to tell me if you did?


I could not possibly agree more. Religion should stay out of politics. Iranians are working very slowly towards it. And about the secret police, I am not affraid to say anything since I am not currently residing in the country, and I can tell you that there are people who put down oppositions and arrest them and torture them, but there is nothing secret about it.


Originally posted by xman_in_blackxSanctions? Would this have anything to do with wanting nuclear weapons?


No, it has something to do with the start of the revolution. We took a bad first step and its getting worst since the "axis of evil" speech. Hopfully we will start a dialoge soon, there are several candidates that are promising to do just that in theiur campaign for the upcoming elections.


Originally posted by xman_in_blackxWhy would an abundant and intellectual society such as Iran want nuclear weapons? What is to gain from them? How could a peaceful Iran walk down a path of violence? Couldn't an oil rich Iran use oil to create electricity? Wouldn't it be cheaper and far less toxic to the people of Iran? Especially if Iran's booming industries are gaining such momentum.


I am not going to answer your firt few questions because they seem to be rhetorical. If you dont mind I'll skip to the fourth question. President Ford during his time thought that nuclear technology was vital for Iran. I'll refer you to this website for more information to what I am talking about:

www.washingtonpost.com...

You fifth question: President Ford didnt think so and we know that the American administration would never want something that is bad for it's "friends".

Your sixth question pretty much tells you why Iran needs the nuclear technology. Iran's industries need alot of electricity and power that is why Iran is trying to make electricity out of anything it can.

www.energybulletin.net...

www.payvand.com...

www.ystpp.com...

These are just a few examples.


Originally posted by xman_in_blackx
Even the US is embarrassed to use nuclear energy because it is so costly to clean up.


Then why does the US not stop. I am mean if it is so expensive and usless then I guess the US, China, Russia and all the countries that use nuclear technology should just scrap it.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by AceOfBase

I'm so glad that Sep set you straight on your attempt at sarcasm.



Yeah, Ace, but I don't think his "setting me straight" changes the fact that 40% of the Iranian population live BELOW the poverty line. Now THAT is the life of luxury.

He sure told me!



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by Sep
I could not possibly agree more. Religion should stay out of politics. Iranians are working very slowly towards it. And about the secret police, I am not affraid to say anything since I am not currently residing in the country, and I can tell you that there are people who put down oppositions and arrest them and torture them, but there is nothing secret about it.


Freedom of Speech is important, my friend.


Originally posted by Sep
No, it has something to do with the start of the revolution. We took a bad first step and its getting worst since the "axis of evil" speech. Hopfully we will start a dialoge soon, there are several candidates that are promising to do just that in theiur campaign for the upcoming elections.


I completely agree that a better dialog is needed between our two countries. I am also sure that things can be worked out if the reformers have their way.


Originally posted by Sep
I am not going to answer your firt few questions because they seem to be rhetorical. If you dont mind I'll skip to the fourth question. President Ford during his time thought that nuclear technology was vital for Iran.


That was during a time when Iran's leader wasn't calling the US a Great Satan.


Originally posted by Sep
You fifth question: President Ford didnt think so and we know that the American administration would never want something that is bad for it's "friends"....

...Then why does the US not stop. I am mean if it is so expensive and usless then I guess the US, China, Russia and all the countries that use nuclear technology should just scrap it.


Most Americans think that nuclear energy should be scrapped. One accident can ruin hundreds of thousands of lives. Chernobyl is the proof. China and Russia probably won't scrap it because they have such vast real estate and dont care about the people. Chernobyl should have a been a warning sign for us all.

Sep, I have no argument with the people of Iran, but it is the government that I disagree with. People should have a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The more people that have that right, the better off we all are. If we get along, we have trading relationships so that can both can prosper.

Hopefully the reformers in Iran can gain some power and end the sanctions.



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