US-provisioned cluster munitions deployed in Ukraine - normalising brutality.

The only place cluster munitions are appropriate & normal is in the classic 90's video game 'Worms'.

However, Biden has decided that now they have dehumanised the Russians to extreme levels utilising their propaganda over the past 17 months, the time has come to drop cluster bombs indiscriminately on Russian troop concentrations, to 'dislodge' them. Yeah that's one way of putting it!

US-supplied cluster munitions have been deployed in Ukraine and are having an impact on the counteroffensive against Russian forces, a senior White House official has said.

“We have gotten some initial feedback from the Ukrainians, and they’re using them quite effectively,” White House national security spokesperson John Kirby said on Thursday.

Ukraine has pledged to only use the controversial bombs to dislodge concentrations of Russian enemy soldiers. Kirby said the cluster munitions are having an impact on Russian defensive formations and manoeuvring.

The munitions arrived in Ukraine last week and are seen by the US as a way to get Kyiv critically needed ammunition to help bolster its offensive and push through Russian frontlines. US officials have said Washington will provide thousands of the rounds, but provided no specific numberss

US leaders debated whether to provide the munitions for months, before President Joe Biden made the final decision this month.

Cluster munitions, which are banned in more than 100 countries, are bombs that open in the air and release scores of smaller bomblets that can kill indiscriminately over a wide area. Those that fail to explode can pose a danger for decades.

Human rights organisations criticised Biden’s decision, noting that at least 149 civilians were killed or injured worldwide by such weapons in 2021, according to the Cluster Munition Monitor.

Biden described the decision to provide the projectiles as “very difficult”, citing their record of killing civilians.

US leaders have said the US will send a version of the munition that has a reduced “dud rate”, meaning fewer of the smaller bomblets fail to explode. Each side has accused the other of using cluster bombs in the conflict begun by Russia’s invasion in February 2022.

Ukraine has begun deploying cluster bombs against Russian forces, says White House

So what do you think ATS? Is there ever a suitable time to deploy these indiscriminate munitions? Has the US crossed a line by supplying these munitions to destroy Russian troop concentrations? What do you think of the excuse that these are less faulty than previous munitions, leaving less chance of duds injuring civilians later on in years to come?

Personally, I think these are terror tactic weaponry, they are dishonourable & quite frankly I'm not surprised in the least that it was Biden who gave the go-ahead. He has a diseased soul, no respect for the sanctity of life, no respect for the proper rule of law..

Cheers,


FITO.

One with an evil heart lives the way of a dark life.

I cant wait until Russia returns the favor (this isnt new tech) and then the stooges of globalism will be crying war crime!

a reply to: greendust

You mean like how they’ve already used them against civilian targets?

originally posted by: greendust
I cant wait until Russia returns the favor (this isnt new tech) and then the stooges of globalism will be crying war crime!

Russia is already using them. Sauce for the goose and all, and why are you all upset? Bombs blow up and kill people. Is there any such thing as a humanitarian bomb? Are you any less dead if you get in the way of an old-fashioned grenade or a cluster bomb? Are the 100,000 estimated civilian casualties from Hiroshima somehow worse than the 2 million civilian casualties in Germany caused by "conventional" weapons? The "stooges" are those who think one is worse than the other.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

No surprise from brain-dead Biden... he will forever be entrenched as a badge of shame in US history.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

However, Biden has decided that now they have dehumanised the Russians to extreme levels utilising their propaganda over the past 17 months, the time has come to drop cluster bombs indiscriminately on Russian troop concentrations

Russia has been using them since earlier in the war , on civilians.

Since Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine on February 24, 2022, Russian armed forces have used cluster munitions in attacks that have caused hundreds of civilian casualties and damaged civilian objects, including homes, hospitals, and schools. The Ukrainian military has not denied credible evidence of its own use of cluster munitions in the conflict and has publicly asked to be supplied with the weapon.
www.hrw.org...

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: greendust

You mean like how they’ve already used them against civilian targets?

Glad I found you in a related thread too, what do you think about Ukraine getting low on 155 artillery shells, was this a factor? MAkes me wonder what else they are getting low on.

www.msn.com... -are-key-experts-and-officials-say/ar-AA1dMe2V

The US decided last week to send deadly but controversial cluster munitions to Ukraine's military.
Experts and officials say these explosives will help ease Ukraine's ammunition shortages.
Ukrainian forces are expending ammunition at a high rate during their ongoing counteroffensive.
Ukrainian forces, at times outgunned by their Russian foes, are fast burning through ammunition during intense artillery duels. But the deadly, albeit controversial, cluster munitions inbound to Kyiv will help alleviate the strain on its dwindling stockpiles, as well as those of its supporters, US officials and experts say.

a reply to: putnam6

It is one of the reason I have heard for this action. "Old NATO stockpiles have started to get low on standard munitions and this was a stopgap action until manufacturing catches up."

But personally I am not sure that is 100% true as the cluster munitions are great at hitting large areas of soft targets, such as we are seeing in the Russian defensive lines in occupied Ukraine slowing down the UAF pushes.

US leaders have said the US will send a version of the munition that has a reduced “dud rate”, meaning fewer of the smaller bomblets fail to explode.

A kinder and gentler cluster bomb made and gifted by the Biden administration, from leaders who really care.

War is War I would be blowing the crap out of Moscow . RUSSIA Attacked 1st and has killed many civilians wiping out entire city's. Quit bitching about war .

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: greendust
I cant wait until Russia returns the favor (this isnt new tech) and then the stooges of globalism will be crying war crime!

Russia is already using them. Sauce for the goose and all, and why are you all upset? Bombs blow up and kill people. Is there any such thing as a humanitarian bomb? Are you any less dead if you get in the way of an old-fashioned grenade or a cluster bomb? Are the 100,000 estimated civilian casualties from Hiroshima somehow worse than the 2 million civilian casualties in Germany caused by "conventional" weapons? The "stooges" are those who think one is worse than the other.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: greendust

You mean like how they’ve already used them against civilian targets?

Either of you got a single credible source to back up that statement, that hasn't already been caught lying multiple times about the Ukraine conflict?

Because me thinks you are just parroting what you've heard on FOX or CNN without actually really knowing what's going on. I have seen no evidence that Russia used cluster munitions outside what the MSM is claiming.

Ratner than cheering an escalation, you all should be advocating for peace like fully functioning adults would do on the brink of WWIII.

Just sayin...

The Russian simps here are stunning and brave!

How about GTFO of Ukraine?

a reply to: JAY1980

Of course I am, despite not watching either of them, or reading any news sites. But of course I'm just parroting what was heard on those two, because I'm too dumb to do my own research or find my own videos, so have to use their information.

Cluster munitions have been widely used in Ukraine following Russia’s February 2022 invasion of the country. Use of the of the banned weapon by Russian forces in civilan populated areas has been documented by ICBL-CMC member, Human Rights Watch, the New York Tiimes, and the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights. Allegations of cluster munition use by Ukraine Government forces were reported by the New York Times on 18 April.

www.stopclustermunitions.org...

Wait, let me guess, all of those have an agenda too, right? They're all anti-Russian and say whatever they're told to, right?

(Geneva, 25 February)-The International Campaign to Ban Landmines and Cluster Munition Coalition (ICBL-CMC) strongly condemns the confirmed use of cluster munitions yesterday by Russian forces in the Ukraine conflict, and the death and injury of civilians, as reported by the New York Times and Human Rights Watch. ICBL-CMC is alarmed by the threat of further harm to civilians including humanitarian mine action partners, following yesterday’s largescale escalation by Russia.

We call for an immediate halt to use of the internationally banned weapon, and urge all parties to guarantee protection of civilians, respect for international humanitarian law, and the international norm banning use of cluster munitions and landmines.

www.stopclustermunitions.org...

(Geneva, 15 March) – The International Campaign to Ban Landmines and Cluster Munition Coalition (ICBL-CMC) condemns in the strongest possible manner the disregard for civilian life and widespread use of banned cluster munitions by Russian forces in the Ukraine conflict, in clear violation of international humanitarian law and what may constitute a war crime.

“We are outraged by the ongoing targeting of civilian populated areas and use of cluster munitions by Russian forces in Ukraine,” said ICBL-CMC Director, Hector Guerra. “These actions are in flagrant disregard for international humanitarian norms protecting civilian life. The International community of states committed to peace and the rule of law—and particularly States Parties to the Convention on Cluster Munitions—have a responsibility to speak up and unconditionally condemn these actions and demand an immediate halt to all use of cluster munitions.”

www.stopclustermunitions.org...

Since Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine on February 24, 2022, Russian armed forces have used cluster munitions in attacks that have caused hundreds of civilian casualties and damaged civilian objects, including homes, hospitals, and schools. The Ukrainian military has not denied credible evidence of its own use of cluster munitions in the conflict and has publicly asked to be supplied with the weapon.

Cluster munitions are weapons that can be delivered by rockets, missiles, and aircraft. They open in mid-air and disperse dozens and even hundreds of smaller submunitions, also called bomblets, over an area the size of a city block. Many submunitions fail to explode on initial impact, leaving duds that act like landmines, posing a threat to civilians for years and even decades.

www.hrw.org...

It must be ok for both sides to have and use them as it seems even the 'civil' USA has them.

If they want a gentle war, they should be using rubber bullets and smoke bombs.

War is war. And considering all the munitions and other help the USA has sent Ukraine, why are they not doing better? Maybe these will help.

The US announced on July 8 that it would be sending the controversial munitions, and they were delivered to Ukrainian forces about a week later, as CNN first reported. Brig. Gen. Oleksandr Tarnavsky told CNN at an interview in central Ukraine last week that the munitions “can radically change (the battlefield).”

www.cnn.com...#:~:text=The%20US%20announced%20on%20July,change%20(the%20battlefield).%E2 %80%9D

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

No complaint about theRussians using them, including on targets with a civilian population, so it is clear where you're coming from: either being a Kremlin mouthpiece or completely ignorant of what has been going on there and what the Russians have been doing. In either case it is clear that you're just peddling Putin's propaganda, intentionally or not.

You apparently don't have a problem with Russia destroying whole cities, and targeting energy infrastructure, restaurants and the world's food supply. Guess you also don't have a problem with Russia abducting Ukrainian children, which is a war crime.

Pretty sure we used those in Iraq.

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck

US leaders have said the US will send a version of the munition that has a reduced “dud rate”, meaning fewer of the smaller bomblets fail to explode.

A kinder and gentler cluster bomb made and gifted by the Biden administration, from leaders who really care.

It is, actually.

The issue with cluster bombs is not due to their effects on military forces. It's as legal to kill an opposing soldier with a cluster bomb as it is to kill them with a bullet, a bayonet, or a hand grenade. The issue is that when you spray cluster bombs over a wide area (which is how they are designed to be used) the duds lie around indefinitely and can go off later when the civilians come back into the area.

"Russian cluster munitions reportedly have a "dud rate" of 40%, meaning large numbers remain a hazard on the ground, whereas the average dud rate is believed to be close to 20%. The Pentagon estimates its own cluster bomblets have a dud rate of less than 3%."

www.bbc.com...#:~:text=Neither%20have%20signed%20the%20treaty,to%20be%20close%20to%2020%25.

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