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Grand Lodge ever thought of bringing a lawsuit against stuff like this: ?

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posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 02:58 PM
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Freemasons Secrets Revealed Ebooks - Illuminati

I see nickel and dime stuff like this for sell all the time, and it seems like extrapolated versions of www.freemasonrywatch.com . It would seem that the Grand Lodge would have legal grounds to sue over slander or libel if the person(s) were profiting from the sell of this, right?


I'm no lawyer, just curious.


X




posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 07:00 PM
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The other side in a lawsuit gets a great deal of latitude in what they can ask for in discovery and depositions. Meaning, they ask for things not related to the case, the judge lets them have it on theory that he can always declare it irrelevant after he sees it.

If you want to keep secrets, don't start a lawsuit, expose your documents to court ordered scrutiny, let opposing counsel run free through your files.



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 07:21 PM
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Well that is a nice piece of information to have and I thank you, Researcher.


I would have thought they could go after such things without having to over expose themselves or their fraternity, but your point makes sense. Whatever they went after could force them to reveal parts of their frat that members are usually privy to.

That's one hell of a double-edged sword, eh?


Thanks again, I've wondered for quite some time why they didn't directly attack(or defend) certain things. I was just trying to think of a way that they could overcome the stigma they seem to face.

I guess they would of thought of that by now though.


X



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 07:24 PM
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I'd think that a small, local lodge in a town tho can engage in such a suit, without actually having any thing 'secret' that they'd not want to be revealed in court.



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 12:06 PM
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You guys gotta understand that masonry doesn't have a "patent" on it's secrets, we can't even get a trademark on the name "Freemasonry". This means that anyone is pretty much free to take our stuff and do with it what they want. That is why we have n to resort to "Recognition" between legitimate lodges and disassociating ourselves with lodges and other organizations who we do nont authorize to use our secrets and stuff.



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 01:16 PM
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I see,

I had no idea that your information/symbols etc were not protected.

That makes more sense.

Thank you.

X



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 05:26 PM
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What is keeping someone from:
A) Joining a regular lodge.
B) Then joining an irregular lodge.

And so, there we have it. NO ONE would join only an irregular lodge, as no one would (by their own preference) be referred to as an irregular Mason until they somehow were 'outed', discovered, revealed, embarrassed, scandalized....

Then, its "Oh yeah, ol' Jimmy Joe was an IRREGULAR Mason, uh huh, thats why he committed the Savings and Loan scandal, honest injun"



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
What is keeping someone from:
A) Joining a regular lodge.
B) Then joining an irregular lodge.

And so, there we have it. NO ONE would join only an irregular lodge, as no one would (by their own preference) be referred to as an irregular Mason until they somehow were 'outed', discovered, revealed, embarrassed, scandalized....

Then, its "Oh yeah, ol' Jimmy Joe was an IRREGULAR Mason, uh huh, thats why he committed the Savings and Loan scandal, honest injun"


Keep dreaming, Akilles. You know damn well it's not like that, so say it all you want but it's not gonna change the fact that there is a very clear distinction between regular and irregular masonic lodges and therefore masons.

Someone might join an irregular lodge if they wanted to be in an organization with women, for example. And as masons, we are forbidden to associate ourselves masonically with any lodges or masons that we know to be irregular. It's that simple.



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 05:42 PM
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THAT is ridiculous.

Then why wouldn't Freemasons be warning the public about Irregulars?

If Freemasons themselves won't even associate with the Irregulars 'masonicly' (whatever that is, associating is associating is associating) don't they have a duty to tell others WHY they feel this way?

Maybe even going as far as to point out ACTUAL SPECIFIC differences that makes them irregular (and un-worthy of association) from regular Masonic teachings (oh my God, they think women can have social meetings with men, let's dis-associate,
)

Whats... that... SMELL.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 12:37 AM
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Originally posted by akilles
Then why wouldn't Freemasons be warning the public about Irregulars?


They absolutely DO. You can read about clandestine lodges on just about any masonic information site and Grand Lodge websites. Regardless, sometimes it might not be a public issue, like when a certain lodge has a falling out with their Grand Lodge and gets their charter pulled. It all depends.



If Freemasons themselves won't even associate with the Irregulars 'masonicly' (whatever that is, associating is associating is associating) don't they have a duty to tell others WHY they feel this way?


What is meant by "associating masonically" means that a mason will not join in meetings or discuss anything masonic with an irregular. Basically a mason must treat a clandestine mason like he treats the uninitiated. No talking about ritual details or modes of recognition.

And Grand Lodges absolutely DO make it publically known why they will not recognize certain lodges or even jurisdictions. It just all depends. Like I said, a great example is co-masonic lodges, because they admit women. French lodges because they admit atheists. Anyone can find this info.



Maybe even going as far as to point out ACTUAL SPECIFIC differences that makes them irregular (and un-worthy of association) from regular Masonic teachings (oh my God, they think women can have social meetings with men, let's dis-associate,
)


You see Akilles, there's a perfectly good explanation for EVERYTHING that you think you might be able to use to portray masonry negatively. Why don't you just DROP your bogus theories and take a fair and balanced look at masonry for once? If you put half the effort you make trying to make masonry look bad into trying to learn the truth about masonry, you could become very knowledgeable about the subject.



[edit on 9-4-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 01:30 AM
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I came here to learn about symbolism.

Have I learnt anything from the Masons here? Nope.

Did I ask what I would learn from Masonry, if I did not subscribe to a(ny) major religion? Yes.

Did I EVER get an answer? No.

Another question I've had is whether Masons see any potential for abuse, and all I've heard is "no more than any other organization". Now that doesn't seem to be advocating positive change, it seems to advocate the status quo, don't ya think?

So Masons have not answered my major questions OR provided anything interesting info whatsoever about symbolism (masonic or otherwise) that their 'teachings' might help them share.

You guys have had an agenda against me, not the other way around.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 02:44 AM
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Originally posted by akilles
I came here to learn about symbolism.

Have I learnt anything from the Masons here? Nope.

Did I ask what I would learn from Masonry, if I did not subscribe to a(ny) major religion? Yes.

Did I EVER get an answer? No.

Another question I've had is whether Masons see any potential for abuse, and all I've heard is "no more than any other organization". Now that doesn't seem to be advocating positive change, it seems to advocate the status quo, don't ya think?

So Masons have not answered my major questions OR provided anything interesting info whatsoever about symbolism (masonic or otherwise) that their 'teachings' might help them share.

You guys have had an agenda against me, not the other way around.


YOU LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!! We've given you TONS of information about symbolism. You just refuse to believe us. That's your fault, not ours!

And you never asked any of those other questions. Maybe if you tried asking an HONEST question, instead of making everything sound like a cheap shot, people would take you seriously.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 03:13 AM
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mr necros
Why should he believe you, by your own admission your sworn to "protect the secrets" and that allows (actually compells) you to give false explainations and disinformation.


Then why ask any quetions about masonry?

If masons are compelled to enforce a conspiracy, or if one beleives that, then why engage in the charade of asking masons about their organization?



Some people and maybe even the Oxford Dictionary would call that lying.

Some would call posing innocent as a device dishonest behabiour too.

]Morgan won't post anything else because (surprise, surprise) he and whatever ISP he is with are constantly being threatened with lawsuits.

You know the person that runs it?

Why not ask them to come to ATS?

Perhaps an interview can be setup ?


akilles
I came here to learn about symbolism (why geometry is important to Masons, etc. who promptly declared it unimportant, as I MUST have an agenda, for even asking about it).

Not for nothing, but I've seen you ask questions like that, and then also get answers. Often the answers are followed up with an explanation that the rituals and symbolism are illustrative and not 'in and of themselves important' or somesuch.

So you do get answers. Its obvious that there is hostility, perhaps its understandable, but that certainly doesn't make it 'acceptable'. But, surely, you can't expect to not receive some static when you're constantly denigrating their organization?


To bring the thread back on subject, this thread is a microcosm of the greater issue of lawsuits and freemasonry. The 'charges' against freemasonry are, ironically, for the most part esoteric and vague. When the charges are specific, like 'such and such person did this' or 'this group did that', then its followed up in the normal civil/criminal court system.
So when there are actual criminal charges, it gets resolved. When its a squabble over 'priviliged information' and alleged undemonstrable conspiracies, its up in the air, to be debated between indiviuals, not courts.

[edit on 10-4-2005 by Nygdan]



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 04:41 AM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
Why should he believe you, by your own admission your sworn to "protect the secrets" and that allows (actually compells) you to give false explainations and disinformation.
Some people and maybe even the Oxford Dictionary would call that lying.


The secrets are the 'modes of recognition' and that's all . A freemasons is taught to be honest and truthful, so is a more believable source than a troll who's main occupation seems to be rubbishing an institution he comprehensibly fails to understand.

To say a freemason is compelled to lie is the exact opposite of the truth, and is a lie .


If you think to rubbish I get levelled at me seems quite extreme, then spare a thought for a guy who regularly gets burgled, has had several death threats and the police tell him to sort it out himself.


That's because the police know a loony when they see one.
You're lucky not to be charged with wasting police time.

"The masons destroyed my toilet, officer."



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 04:48 AM
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someone was discussing symbolism? feed the troll .

sebatwerk , whats the meaning of having the master mason handshake between the compasses with the G? (or can u not tell me that?)



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 07:18 AM
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Originally posted by NuTroll
someone was discussing symbolism? feed the troll .

sebatwerk , whats the meaning of having the master mason handshake between the compasses with the G? (or can u not tell me that?)


I'm not Sebatwerk, but I've seen the design you refer to. It's not a "master mason handshake" as you say. It's called "the Right Hand of Friendship and Brotherly Love" It's given first to the Entered Apprentice upon being initiated. Look at practically ANY Masonic Monitor (you can buy them on Advanced Book Exchange, EBay, Amazon.com, etc.

Nothing secret about it. It's just a symbol of "friendship and brotherly love"


Enough food, or would you like more?


[edit on 9-4-2005 by senrak]



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 07:45 AM
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Originally posted by akilles
I came here to learn about symbolism.


No, you came here with preconceived notions about Freemasonry which you continually post as truth and you continually ignore the REAL truth because it doesn't fit your needs.



Have I learnt anything from the Masons here? Nope.


Of course not. A closed-mind cannot learn anything when it thinks it already knows and refused to consider anything else. Nothing curious about that.




Did I ask what I would learn from Masonry, if I did not subscribe to a(ny) major religion? Yes.
Yes, and it was answered. I know MANY very good Masons who don't subscribe to a particular religion...major or otherwise.



Did I EVER get an answer? No.


Once again, you weren't listening. You were too busy spreading lies and hate.



Another question I've had is whether Masons see any potential for abuse, and all I've heard is "no more than any other organization". Now that doesn't seem to be advocating positive change, it seems to advocate the status quo, don't ya think?


What kind of "abuse" are you talking about? Do you mean some kind of "hazing" Surely you're not referring to the silly nonsense that Necros says.



So Masons have not answered my major questions OR provided anything interesting info whatsoever about symbolism (masonic or otherwise) that their 'teachings' might help them share.


Sounds like you're getting confused. You don't ask questions, you bait. You've got your agenda against Freemasonry (which is fine...a lot of people do) and all you can do is spread lies in the form of questions based on your preconceived notions. Until you decide you want the truth, you'll never be anything more that what you are right now.



You guys have had an agenda against me, not the other way around.


Don't get a big-head Akilles...we're not THAT interested in you. We feel the same way about ALL the members here who spread lies about us.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
Why should he believe you, by your own admission your sworn to "protect the secrets" and that allows (actually compells) you to give false explainations and disinformation.
Some people and maybe even the Oxford Dictionary would call that lying.


If a subject came up that I promised to keep secret, like our modes of recognition, I would just say that I could not talk about it. I WOULDN'T LIE ABOUT IT! That makes no sense, why would I lie about those things when I can just tell you I can't talk about that!?!? Why would I make myself look like a liar in front of all these people and in front of my brothers, who would know that I'm lying? Think, Necros, THINK!

So you're completely wrong. You have no idea what we swear to keep secret, even though we've told you billions of times! The only things I will not talk about are our modes of recognition, like handshakes, and our rituals. That's it. So admit you're wrong, or shut up.


[edit on 9-4-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by NuTroll
someone was discussing symbolism? feed the troll .

sebatwerk , whats the meaning of having the master mason handshake between the compasses with the G? (or can u not tell me that?)


Like Senrak told you, it's just a symbol of brotherhood. The handshake has always been the symbol of brotherhood or cooperation, etc etc. It is not a Master Mason's handshake, though. That I will NOT tell you what that handshake looks likes (although if your like MrNECROS you might i think I would just lie about it to you and say it looks like something else).



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 11:04 PM
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Can you guys go one post without a personal attack? I have no choice but to continue to ask the questions that get me attacked.

I came here to learn about symbolism (why geometry is important to Masons, etc. who promptly declared it unimportant, as I MUST have an agenda, for even asking about it).

Did I ask what I would learn from Masonry, if I did not subscribe to a(ny) major religion? Yes. You won't get the words SUPREME BEING out of my mouth, but what did the Masons say?

No, you aren't eligible. If they DID NOT say that, please provide evidence, because all I remember is being attacked, and the question being dropped as dis-ingenuous (as it is every time).

Another question I've had is whether Masons see any potential for corruption, and all I've heard is "no more than any other organization/company".
What I wanted to know was, does the set up of Masonry allow you to find out every one you are associating yourself with, before doing so.
Could this be changed?

So Masons have not answered my major questions, again.

You guys have had a personal vendetta against me, going as far as going into threads I post in, and replying without even reading what I wrote. Esp. Sebatwerk, who thinks I have to prove things to him personally, as well as do his research for him.

Is that what Masonry teaches, let someone else do the work, then tell me about it?

[edit on 9-4-2005 by akilles]



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