NEWS: Florida To Allow The Use Of Deadly Force In Self-Defense

Originally posted by subzHaving stringent guns laws in only two states and lax to non-existant ones in the rest of the states will entice criminals to said softer states. Why do an armed robbery in Texas and get your head blown off when you can do it Washington and chances are the victim is unarmed. Crime not prevented, just moved.

Now compare US deaths due to firearms to other COUNTRIES with complete control on firearms and the facts speak for themselves.

lol thats obsurd, noone would move from here to DC just to commit a crime, thats just reaching and anyways its not meant to stop crime in other states.

use of guns per violent crime is much lower here than most countries, even canada, heck most gun violence comes from ILLEGAL guns that were stolen or bought on the black market, not legal guns.

Originally posted by subz
Having stringent guns laws in only two states and lax to non-existant ones in the rest of the states will entice criminals to said softer states. Why do an armed robbery in Texas and get your head blown off when you can do it Washington and chances are the victim is unarmed.

So are you admiting that guns prevent crime?

Originally posted by grover
I keep telling ya put some prozac and lithium licks about the damned state so the excitable and reality challenged can go up, take a couple licks and medicate themselves saving the rest of us a world of trouble.

So are you from Florida grover?

I THINK THIS IS HORRIBLE

What about the poor rapists and murders thats lives will be endangered by this law?

What kind of world are we living in where someone would think they had a right to not be raped or killed?

Think about the victims here, people who only wanted to rape/rob/murder someone and now they might get harmed in the process. Some serial rapists might have to start ASKING for sex instead of taking it by force. Do you know how that might effect their self-esteem? What about the poor drug addict that just wanted your car or TV to help him score? Are you ready to live with his not getting high for fear of robbing you?

WHAT KIND OF ANIMALS ARE YOU

*runs screaming hysterically up and down the street*

What I still find incredible is the idea that self-defense could even be considered "controversial".

Absolutely. I find it amazing that people actually think that the police will be there to protect them when they need them. Its not going to happen.
The job of the police is to enforce the law not protect every citizen.

What if ...
Well, How about....
Let's say ....

A big green monster is walking up the street with an ostrich feather in his nose and I'm the only one with a concealed carry license and a 44 magnum, but your sainted Aunt Lulabell runs in front just as I unleash on him with withering gunfire and Aunt Lulabell loses a heel off her shoe, shot off in the fracas ... and because the sun is up and the sky is not overcast, it isn't self defense and the monster dies, but my magic bullet goes through a couple of walls after killing the monster and ... and ... and....

Sheesh....

No offense intended, truly, but some of you folks need to get a grip on reality.

Hand guns and other firearms are a part of the American culture like it or not. You can make up all sorts of reasons for them not to be, but lots of folks want them and that's the way it is.

If you don't want to be around guns, move out country. Don't expect everyone to conform to your paradigm of reality. It simply doesn't occur that way. And if you are, in fact, so smart, so sure and so right, run for office. Get a political stance and do something about it in the political arena.

Ooops.... Gotta go polish my M-60.

I think this isn't such a bad idea but the whole self defense in public part is a bit iffy, I mean even cops are concerned about shooting it out in public because of the collateral damage, and these guys are trained for this. Imagine a school shooting situation when you step in trying to stop it from happening and end up shooting up some of the kids you were trying to save in the first place.

I'm wondering does this only apply to firearms?, can you have plead self defense from physically defending yourself

Originally posted by subz
LMFAO do you need any more proof that Americans are hell bent on self destruction?

Want to commit a murder? Drag your victim into your house and shoot them. They were threatening you after all. Hell you dont even need to drag them into your house any more, just shoot them in the street and say they came at you with a knife, baseball bat, gun whatever you drop on them.

I agree that you have the right to defend your house and property but the right to kill some one shouldnt be enshrined in law. The law should lean on the side of reasonable force but be flexible enough to not convict people who clearly are innocent. This carte blanche killing law is quite literally a Pandora's Box.

What do I care though, ruin your country. I dont plan on ever going there

Killing fools while in the commision of a violent crime will certainly lighten the court workload, save innocent lives, take a bunch of unnecessary genes out of the gene pool, save innocent lives, give comfort and security to law abiding citizens, and save innocent lives.

I cannot believe this is not the law of the land the world over. CRIMINALS FEAR AN ARMED POPULACE!!!! So do despots. It would not hurt to put the fear of retribution into bullys as well.

They should tack a rider on to this bill that makes it a capital crime to commit a crime with a gun. Rob a paperboy with a gun in your pocket and you get the death penalty. Lets not let them spend 20 years on death row before we terminate their lease on life either. Give them 30 minutes from sentencing to termination. One way or another lets get rid of the gun toting criminal element and leave the legal gun owners be. MAKE IT OPEN SEASON ON DANGEROUS CRIMINALS.

The elimination of the "Duty to Retreat" clause was only one component of this legislation. The other half of the bill prohibits criminals or their families from sueing the VICTIM of a crime for any injury(or death) that the person committing the crime receives. Florida law already protected people's right to defend themselves in their home, place of business, or vehicle under the "Castle Doctrine". This just makes it legal for a person to defend themselves without having to attempt to runaway first in any situation and they now don't have to worry about getting sued for hurting a criminal. The law isn't about firearms at all, it's about self-defense by whatever means nessecary. I don't how it is in other countries and some US states for that matter, but around here in Florida some of us actually take pride in our right to control our own safety and defend our families, no matter what it takes. The thought that killing a criminal is "wrong" would never enter my mind if they were a threat to my children or myself. In the US at least, the cities with the strictest gun control laws have the worst crime rates. Criminals don't follow laws, that is why they are called criminals !!!

Well, it was certainly a week too late for Terry Schiavo.

"I mean, honestly you're honor. She blinked at my balloon. She swallowed and made a threatening gesture, so I had to plug her. You know, self defense."

Or, unplug her as it were. Regardless, maybe if the husband shot her like Old Yeller, there wouldn't have been such a conservative backlash against him.

And yes, before anybody gets lost in the subtext, I'm pointing out the tremendous irony in the fact that the majority of the "Pro-life" Sciavo protestors will support this "pro-bullets banging around in bodies" bill...that will most certainly increase the number of assisted "euthanasia" cases

Now, before my conservative friends freak out. I support you and this bill 100%. You've got quite bit of work to do before the next census, but I think with you're help, we can lower the population of Florida and decrease the number of electoral votes that they have. AND, we can do it the old fashioned way. I mean, what would Gary Cooper do? He be plugging away at people driving slow in the passing lane. I'm having a wonderful vision, ready for it?

Concealed handguns in Disneyland. I love it.

Space Mountain? Not so fast, pal.

Seriously, I think this law is great. I mean, what do I care if a couple more thousand people shoot their toes off every year. It just means that can't wear socks with their sandals when they go to the beach anymore.

Originally posted by subz
.......
Now compare US deaths due to firearms to other COUNTRIES with complete control on firearms and the facts speak for themselves.

The deaths in those other countries are caused by knives and swords....like in Japan about three weeks ago when a man entered a kindergarden, or some school, and started killing kids with a knife, and the dude that went to his church in Germany last week choping people to pieces....

No crime prevention, they just use other weapons.....


[edit on 7-4-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Oblivions void
I'm wondering does this only apply to firearms?, can you have plead self defense from physically defending yourself

It applies to any form of self defense. If for example someone attacks you with a knife and you know martial arts and hit this person a bit too hard that he dies from the blow, that is self defense.

Originally posted by brimstone735
............I mean, what do I care if a couple more thousand people shoot their toes off every year. It just means that can't wear socks with their sandals when they go to the beach anymore.

We have had the concealed permit law since 1987.... how many people that had this concealed permit killed others?.....

Originally posted by Muaddib
We have had the concealed permit law since 1987.... how many people that had this concealed permit killed others?.....

And how many innocent toes have been sacrificed since then?
I rest my case, thank you.

This way, we can fight real crimes and fashion crimes all in one. I'm sorry, but what really is a greater South Beach threat? A car jacker or socks and sandals? Your way, right away. It's like Burger King, but with guns instead of whoppers.

Think of the children, man, just think of the children.

Originally posted by namehere
lol thats obsurd, noone would move from here to DC just to commit a crime, thats just reaching and anyways its not meant to stop crime in other states.

use of guns per violent crime is much lower here than most countries, even canada, heck most gun violence comes from ILLEGAL guns that were stolen or bought on the black market, not legal guns.

Use of guns per violent crime is NOT much lower in the USA than other countries.

There are 14.5x more murders with guns in America than in Canada (per capita)
There are 3.5x more robberies with guns in America than in Canada (per capita)
Gun stats

So basically the thrust of the pro-Stand Your Ground Bill posters here is that because there are so many guns in circulation in America innocent people need to protect themselves. So introduce a bill that will see another rise in the number of guns in society

Theres too many guns here and innocent people are being killed with them so lets get more guns to protect ourselves! That logic is flawed. You can directly correlate the amount of guns in circulation to the amount of people (innocent and guilty) killed/robbed with them.

Originally posted by groingrinder
I cannot believe this is not the law of the land the world over. CRIMINALS FEAR AN ARMED POPULACE!!!! So do despots. It would not hurt to put the fear of retribution into bullys as well.

Obviously the populace fears an armed populace or you wouldnt be passing bills to defend yourselves from every man and a dog who owns a damn gun. If guns were not ingrained in your culture you wouldnt need more guns to protect yourselves.

Originally posted by Muaddib
The deaths in those other countries are caused by knives and swords....like in Japan about three weeks ago when a man entered a kindergarden, or some school, and started killing kids with a knife, and the dude that went to his church in Germany last week choping people to pieces....

No crime prevention, they just use other weapons.....

Agreed in part there Muaddib. No one is saying that banning guns will result in zero crime. There will always be people metally deficient enough that they'll go and kill .

Where I differ in your assessment of the differences is that with a sword or knife you will be physically less able to kill as many people as you would with say an assault rifle. Also it would be ALOT easier for police to subdue or take out said knife-wielding-murderer with THEIR GUNS when compared to an assault-rifle-wielding-murderer.

By having "the right to bear arms" you have increased the amount of firearms in your soceity which has directly increased the amount of innocent people killed or confronted with firearms. Now the NRA has heavily backed this "Stand Your Ground Bill" which will see another increase in firearms sales and proliferation.

The bill has been heavily backed by the National Rifle Association, the lobbying group which defends the rights of Americans to carry guns.

BBC Story on the Florida Bill

"All this bill will do is sell more guns and possibly turn Florida into the OK Corral," said Democratic state Rep. Irv Slosberg of Boca Raton.

Yahoo News story on the Florida Bill

Isnt the spiral apparent to you? Or are you blinded by your RIGHT to own a firearm? If you really wanted to reduce the threat to your own life (actually to your kids and grandkids lives) you should stop the sale of firearms and actively remove the existing weapons from the populace. But if you could suffer the short term imbalance of firepower you would be making life safer for your own kids and grandkids.

This will obviously never happen because criminals are bristling with weapons (because of legal access to firearms). Although criminal checks are carried out most of the time on gun purchases that is zero guarantee that the firearm will not make its way into the hands of a criminal. Not all criminals or potential killers will have a prior felony conviction. Also is there anything stopping the transfer of second hand weapons? What safeguards are there that a legal gun owner will not sell his/her weapon some time in the future to whomever they wish?

The hellish situation this bill is setup to defend innocent people from is entirely of your own making and can be traced back to "the right to bear arms".

Shortsighted bills that increase the amount of firearms further only line the pockets of gun making corporations. They do nothing in the long run to protect your saftey.

[edit on 7/4/05 by subz]

I'm tired of people from other countries talking about how stupid Americans are because we like to own guns. We have our reasons. Some of these reasons are better than others.

When it comes down to it, guns and cartridges are just metal firecrackers. We're not talking about every American owning a nuclear doomsday device, we are talking about many Americans owning guns that have to be carefully aimed and deliberately fired in order to cause intended damage. Accidents will happen. Deliberate murders will occur.

For all of our new concealed-carry laws and everything else, violent crime in America has been in decline every year since 1993. Firearm related crime has plummeted since 1993. Plummeted.

People will always talk about how bad guns are. People will always talk about how good guns are. BOTH SIDES can back up their positions with statistical data, evidence, and examples. In the end, your gun ownership stance is your own. Your opinion on handguns is your own opinion.

Oh yeah, I should throw in the ol' and that's what makes this country free and great, that we can have these opinions.

Without getting shot.

Zip

[edit on 7-4-2005 by Zipdot]

It has crossed my mind that maybe there was an alterior motive for this law? Just look at how many people on this board are now instantly suspecting all your everyday joes of going out now and just start offing people. I sure hope noone is scared to go outside now because of this bill. Maybe thats the reaction our Governor was hoping for. Keep everyone scared and inside so those who lack fear can be picked off without question and told to the fearing people that we were criminals. Well I am not going without a fight ya here!! After all it is legal now

No, I would have to say, contrary to what many ATSers believe, governments don't just pass laws "to get a rise out of people."

Well, I should say, the U.S. government doesn't.

Oh God, do they?

Is it just me or is John Titor accurate once again. The ability to shoot a person in a public place seems grounds the beginning of the American Civil War.

We've had the ability to shoot people in public places since the 1500's, when the firearm was invented.

We've had modern pistols since the 1800's.

We've had concealed carry laws for several years in several states, beginning in Florida, I believe, in the late eighties.

Even Floridians have been legally allowed to shoot attackers in the face if they tried to run away first, according to what I've read.

Titor is a hack!

Zip