What really happened in the garden of eden and scratch your head

a reply to: new_here

It could've been an apple, it doesn't matter. It wasn't the fruit itself that was the knowledge of good and evil, it was committing the first act of betrayal. As soon as they did what they were instructed not to do, they understood what good and evil were.

Jaden

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: MykeNukem

Gen 3:15  And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Her seed is Jesus Christ.

From this point on you can follow the Scarlet Thread of Satan trying to eliminate her "seed" throughout the whole Bible.

Almost ALWAYS the firstborn son. With one exception in Isaac (which is explained).

All the way up to Christ.

IMO we just have to read what it says, not interpret. Do we interpret ANY other book? That in itself is weird, no?

Gen 3:1  Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Yea hath God said?, means "Is that what he REALLY said?", then the con comes...

Anyway just my opinion, not preaching at ya.

Havin a beer actually, lol.

Many people interpret it your way as well, just bothers me that we have to "interpret" it when we come up with these allegories, which we can just make up as we go along.

The whole book is full of parables, symbols, metaphors, allegories etc. and you say you just need to read the words to understand? You say this after you say the word "seed" means Jesus... I wonder if the Jews think it means Jesus too.

One thing we can all take away from it is that the Garden of Eden was a place of innocence with humans and animals the same. Adam and Eve leaned of sin and self-awareness where animals do not know either, and as humans were once the same.

‘Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil.’

This is a form of evolution....

Lot's of books have metaphors, symbols, figures of speech, etc.

You have a problem understanding those?

They don't require "interpretation" do they?

Interpret Moby Dick for me and then tell me it'll make sense, it won't.

Just MO.

originally posted by: godservant
Whenever I ask folks, including Christians, what it was that Adam and Eve did wrong in the garden of Eden, most often they answer;

"They ate the apple."

So we're not supposed to eat apples?

Of course it was not an apple tree. That's just a picture we remember from Sunday school as a kid. It wasn't a tree as we know it at all.

Some know that much.

However....

God made everything, skip to;

And God said eat of any fruit in the garden but not from the tree of life and not from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

So.... God did not want us to live in our physical body forever. Understandable. And he did not want us to have knowledge of right and wrong.

Why?

He could have just not made them. Maybe hide them real good or unreachable.

I've often thought it is because there is no such thing as either or we need both to grow spiritually.

HOWEVER........

To be told to NOT do something means that if you do, it's wrong.

That's before any knowledge of bad and good. You don't know yet.

Wait.... what?

Yeah Man, I know.... right? There way more to this.

What y'all thinking about that part?

Of course there is lost translation, like explain a ride in an airplane to a tribe in Africa and it'll become a ride on the back of a big bird.

Food to feed a meditation for soul in prayer....

If you merge the information about the Anunnaki that comes from the Sumerian Cuneiform and the Bible, you start to get into the bigger picture. First, nowhere does it say all of mankind got the boot from the garden, and second, the "Flaming Sword" that shines in all directions is there to show the way back.

It seems some folks were just a bit too intelligent for this god, its a sin to know "Too Much". Its a sin to know where this god and his angels actually come from, and its a sin to know what this god and his angels did to humanity. At least, from their perspective, not from ours. The man who left the garden was destine to be nothing but slaves to these gods, and therefore treated as such. And it was a sin to understand the evil of slavery.

If you take a deep hard look at life today you will see a system of bondage, we call taxation. You do your work and are taxed, virtually to death, and sometimes beyond. These taxes eventually by many means go to support the direct blood descendant's of the direct mating of the sons of god (Enki Enlil etc). It is these bloodlines that the ownership of earth was given. Not, the ignorant smart monkey slaves. "Gods Chosen People" are this blood line.

This bloodline has created many secret societies to maintain ignorance and control over the population (Sheep), to give them fairy tales and fiction, and to keep them from understanding the true global power structure, and, to keep them from finding their way back, to the garden, the tree of life. For this god, and his bloodlines knows, when that day comes, It will be the end to their Parasitic way of life.

For those that remained in the "Garden", they never realized what kind of hell they were being subjected to. Long life does have its drawbacks. But I await to hear them tell it.

Yeah Man, I know.... right? There way more to this.

You are absolutely, correct.

Open the Nibiru......... Let them speak............

originally posted by: MykeNukem

Lot's of books have metaphors, symbols, figures of speech, etc.

You have a problem understanding those?

They don't require "interpretation" do they?

Interpret Moby Dick for me and then tell me it'll make sense, it won't.

Just MO.

What you wrote above makes zero sense. When you say "understanding" that has a million different meanings as to the depth and nature of that understanding. Understanding Moby Dick for many could just be a story of a man hunting a whale and that understanding ends there. When you read the bible for the first time did you see "seed" as Jesus or did someone tell you it meant Jesus? We know the story of Moby Dick is based on the arrogance of man in believing that he can conquer the forces of nature, because that is what the author said it was about, but 100 people can take it 100 different ways on their own. I can take 1000 religious people and they will have 1000 different view points on parts of the bible too.

The problem here is that your use of the word understanding is based on YOUR understanding...

a reply to: godservant

And God said eat of any fruit in the garden but not from the tree of life and not from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

God didn't say that they couldn't eat from the tree of life.......they could but not if they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil was about dividing and judgement.

Instead of there just being the garden, suddenly there was the idea of something other.......now they wanted and felt lack.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: MykeNukem

Lot's of books have metaphors, symbols, figures of speech, etc.

You have a problem understanding those?

They don't require "interpretation" do they?

Interpret Moby Dick for me and then tell me it'll make sense, it won't.

Just MO.

What you wrote above makes zero sense. When you say "understanding" that has a million different meanings as to the depth and nature of that understanding. Understanding Moby Dick for many could just be a story of a man hunting a whale and that understanding ends there. When you read the bible for the first time did you see "seed" as Jesus or did someone tell you it meant Jesus? We know the story of Moby Dick is based on the arrogance of man in believing that he can conquer the forces of nature, because that is what the author said it was about, but 100 people can take it 100 different ways on their own. I can take 1000 religious people and they will have 1000 different view points on parts of the bible too.

The problem here is that your use of the word understanding is based on YOUR understanding...

Yes, who else's understanding can I conjure up to discuss this? Did you miss the "In My Opinion" part?

I thought we were BOTH discussing this based on our mutual "understanding".

"seed" has been a common term for "descendants" or "progeny" since like forever, not a stretch at all, not hard to understand, again, IMO

Of course people have their own understanding of the Bible, I thought that's what we were discussing...

Satan Tricks Eve - Gen. 3 - 1- - 3 / 2 - 4


^^^^^ Should answer lots of questions

The Abrahamic religions' core sources (the bible and its' ancillary texts) are the collections of accounts which the regional culture has labored to gather and refine into a message which speaks to the spiritual body and life of collective humanity - and most importantly (to the authors) what form it should take. The biblical paradigm invokes the willingness of humanity to shift from the mundane, to accept eventually, that the world and life aren't all about "just me and what I want." It introduces - into the narrative - a concept which forms a cornerstone of a religious life..., consequences.

But to embrace this particular set of stories requires a practice that necessitates more than the kind of suspension of disbelief that simple entertainment requires: It requires faith. It is unfortunately that faith, along with several other virtues, have been actively attacked by ideologues who find it to cross their purpose and desires.

Faith could be explained in a number of ways, some negative, some positive - and others still neutral. But I think that faith is a primordial currency. It is minted only by the individual (owner,) can only be "spent" by the actual "owner," and thankfully, it can only be 'given' - not taken. But I apologize for the digression.

"A and E, The fruit, and their home."

We know the story (generally speaking) ... But I think the message has been elaborated beyond the simple message it may have been meant to illustrate.

Namely,

In (human) life there are rules
imposed or not, fair or not, logical or not...
ignore them and there could be unfortunate consequences.

It is our human nature to be litigious, to mince and confabulate words we want to promote, attack, or discuss. Good, evil, right, wrong may not have been the point of what could be considered as one of the first real parables we find in the biblical narrative...

Maybe it's not about "obedience" or "morality" but more like a message to children... Whether you understand a rule or not, breaking it has consequences.

a reply to: godservant

It's probably best to start with the Epic of Gilgamesh and figure out where it went sideways by the time it got of the Book of Genesis.

a reply to: godservant

Kinda, missing the whole point and viewing it with attachment which is a form of Lordship.

It's not about God or some higher being Lording over you, in that type of manner, like you can point a finger to say it is anyones fault because that is choosing victimhood - it is about how you choose. Grace, is not the same as Lordship either and is similar to mutual respect for what is within rather than without.

It's about you - and what you want/do with the knowledge of good and evil you are being given, should you be so lucky, and making a conscious choice of where you stand... how far are you willing to go to discover "The Truth" and hold that truth within the heart no matter what happens to you... and if it leads you to God - what are you going to do about it? What do you want to do about it whilst you are here? What is within - speaks about you more than it does what God did for/too you...





We all die in the end (lose all attachments - what is love free from attachment?) - it is not about everyone else out there, so much as it is about what is inside that counts at the end when we face it all alone in the shadows - do not mistake anything I have said for not caring for others either. If you seperate the attachment from the love you have whilst retaining the love for others... it begins to clear it all up - at least to begin with and I cannot put it in more plain language.

he did not want us to have knowledge of right and wrong.

Why?

Because you die - possibly - to experience the knowledge of polarity - right and wrong (in a sense as life and death) as you put it and keeping with how you put it as you did rather than going full tard

With respect

PS: the fool always leaves himself clues you know - good luck

The first human pair were not devoid of knowledge of good and bad. God had told them that it would be wrong or bad to eat of the fruit of one designated tree; conversely, to obey God was good. (Gen. 2:16, 17) So the particular “knowledge” indicated by the “tree of the knowledge of good and bad” involved a self-determining of what is good and bad. On this, Professor T. J. Conant wrote: “By disregarding the divine will, and deciding and acting on his own, man chose to know for himself what is good and evil.” Yes, Adam and Eve rejected God’s determination and chose to set up their own standard of what was good and what was bad.

Adam and Eve knew something about evil before eating the fruit from the “tree of the knowledge of good and evil”. (Gen. 2:17) They knew it would be wrong for them to eat that fruit, and they knew that death was an evil to be shunned. To “be as gods, knowing good and evil” seems to mean more than just helpful knowledge of what is right and what is wrong. (Gen. 3:5) From Genesis 3:22, it appears that, not only Jehovah God, but also his only-begotten Son had knowledge of good and bad in the sense meant in Genesis.

To know “good and evil” as Jehovah and his only-begotten Son know it would seem to mean to know good and evil for yourself, that is, you make the decision of what is good and what is evil, you judge what is right and what is wrong. Adam and Eve were no longer theocratic, no longer looked to God as the Universal Sovereign over all creatures, no longer accepted him as the one to determine right and wrong. They were going to determine for themselves what they were going to do on the earth, and not let God be the Supreme Arbiter.

After Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit (Ge 2:17; 3:5, 6), Jehovah said to his associate in creative work (Joh 1:1-3): “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad.” (Ge 3:22) This apparently did not mean merely having knowledge of what was good and what was bad for them, for the first man and woman had such knowledge by reason of God’s commands to them. Furthermore, God’s words at Genesis 3:22 could not pertain to their now knowing what was bad by experience, for Jehovah said that they had become like him and he has not learned what is bad by doing it. (Ps 92:14, 15) Evidently, Adam and Eve got to know what was good and what was bad in the special sense of now judging for themselves what was good and what was bad. They were idolatrously placing their judgment above God’s, disobediently becoming a law to themselves, as it were, instead of obeying Jehovah, who has both the right and the wisdom necessary to determine good and bad. So their independent knowledge, or standard, of good and bad was not like that of Jehovah. Rather, it was one that led them to misery.​—Jer 10:23.

originally posted by: MykeNukem
Yes, who else's understanding can I conjure up to discuss this? Did you miss the "In My Opinion" part?

Well you said "in my opinion, but this is not an opinion, is it?

we just have to read what it says, not interpret.

That doesn't make sense to me if it is all parables, symbols, metaphors, allegories...

I thought we were BOTH discussing this based on our mutual "understanding".

"seed" has been a common term for "descendants" or "progeny" since like forever, not a stretch at all, not hard to understand, again, IMO

Her seed is Jesus Christ.

How was Jesus Eve's seed. Jesus was no one's seed, but God in human form... He wasn't even Joseph's seed.... Seed is mainly referred to the father and not really the mother as in "seed of Abram".

originally posted by: Tortuga
A woman didn’t do a she was asked and ruined everything.

The point is how could there be original sin when there was no right or wrong yet?

Does the Old Testament have a remedy for sin? (Index thread)

originally posted by: godservant
And God said eat of any fruit in the garden but not from the tree of life and not from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Look again. God did not forbid the tree of life. It was in the middle of the garden because it was at the centre of their life in the garden. They must have been eating it continuously. God sends them away at the end to prevent them from continuing to eat from that fruit.

So.... God did not want us to live in our physical body forever. Understandable. And he did not want us to have knowledge of right and wrong. Why?

Because "knowing good and evil" actually means "knowing where the boundary line comes". In other words, they were choosing to decide for themselves what was good and what was evil, instead of leaving it in God's hands. They were separating their will from God's will.

You may say "But all humans want to decide things for themselves". Yes. That's why it's called "original sin". It's now inherent and inherited.

To be told to NOT do something means that if you do, it's wrong.

That's before any knowledge of bad and good. You don't know yet.

Wait.... what?

Yes, this is the paradox which disproves the usual understanding of what "knowing good and evil" means. It does NOT mean "knowing that they exist". It means "rightly knowing what the difference is".

I've written three or four different threads on this.

a reply to: Xtrozero

You view it one way.

I view it another.

However we view it, it is our opinion, not proven facts we are talking about.

Unless your dogmatic about all this?

originally posted by: MykeNukem

You view it one way.

I view it another.

However we view it, it is our opinion, not proven facts we are talking about.

Unless your dogmatic about all this?

True, there is no right or wrong here. People say the bible is the word of God so is absolute truth, but we are also talking about a time when people may not fully understand what they are seeing from God and describe it as best they can with the knowledge of the era. I personally think science and religion goes hand in hand and something like evolution does not answer the why to a question which is the god part of it all and just refers to a how things work, which we do all the time, but evolution is the one exception that religious people see as a blasphemy for some reason.

Lets suppose for the sake of argument, the "Serpent" was real. And this serpent wanted to be the top dog on the planet, but because of its nature was not chosen. Sitting at second would have a tendency to, because of his true nature, cause a great deal of trouble for those that were chosen. And lets suppose this "serpent man" was very clever and having the advantage of concealment and advanced knowledge, use this against his, in his opinion, foe (mankind). This description come very close to what the bible teaches, does it not?

What was President Kennedy trying to tell us in his "Secret Society" speech? Could it have been about a deeper secret society that infiltrated mankind, attempting to dominate mankind?

I will say this about today, it appears as though the worlds populations are doing a hell of a lot of infighting amongst themselves for no good reason. People seem to be less educated, but more so, less inclined to get, educated. Im not talking about the institutional version but rather the self educated kind. Has this "Serpent" have anything to do with this condition? Is this Serpent intelligent enough to manipulate mankind into poising itself with Fluoride? Then, have mankind infect itself with mind altering "Parasites"? All in the hopes of de powering the human population? And then, dominate?

Of course this argument rely s on the "Serpent Man" being a covert intelligent "Adversary" of mankind being a real entity. During my years of research I was given two personal testimonies from people who had no reason to lie, that the "Serpent Man, is real. Well, if your going to attempt a covert infiltration and domination you would first "Dumb" down the population so they are not the wiser. Then spread mind altering parasites amongst the population that would cause widespread "Insanity". Now ask yourself what was the real reason Ivermectin (Anti Parasitic Drug) was withheld from the public.

Maybe, this "serpent man" really did have something to do with separating, dividing mankind, from the garden(Guarded Den). Maybe, he has always been the instigator, adversary of mankind.

They have a way of warping reality using movies. They seem to be upside down, inside out, and backwards from actual reality. For instance the movie "They Live". The theme of the movie is virtually identical to reality except when it comes to detecting and exposing this invader. The movie suggest we put glasses on to see them, when in fact the glasses represent information, the information they supply, the education I described above. Don't put them on, take them off! In the movie there is a transmitter on a roof top sending out a frequency that allows the aliens to be hidden. Destroy the transmitter and they become visible to the naked eye. The revers seems to be true. "Transmit" the frequency that exposes them. That would be one hell of a hoot lol

Can someone translate this clay tablet. What in the hell is being depicted here....... Serpent men being given "Wisdom", or information... ??




At any rate, here is a video which describes these "Serpent Men" in detail. Happy Hunting.

Dichotomy, and eternity, are like a real addictive drug and God knew we were still too young to deal with that mindset.

Teens do what teens do, and out of daddy's house we went.

The detox isn't really coming along good as there are too many drug dealers pushing the stuff on every turn.

In my opinion, this is code, (although a pretty obvious one) for forbidden knowledge.

More or less an alchemical reference.

a reply to: godservant

This is the passage I recall learning.

The serpent was more clever than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. The serpent said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat fruit from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden. But God did say, ‘You must not eat the fruit from the tree in the middle of the garden. Do not even touch it. If you do, you will die.’ ” “You will certainly not die,” the serpent said to the woman. “God knows that when you eat fruit from that tree, you will know things you have never known before. Like God, you will be able to tell the difference between good and evil.” The woman saw that the tree’s fruit was good to eat and pleasing to look at. She also saw that it would make a person wise. So she took some of the fruit and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her. And he ate it. Then both of them knew things they had never known before. They realized they were naked. So they sewed together fig leaves and made clothes for themselves. Then the man and his wife heard the LORD God walking in the garden. It was during the coolest time of the day. They hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. But the LORD God called out to the man. “Where are you?” he asked. “I heard you in the garden,” the man answered. “I was afraid, because I was naked. So I hid.” The LORD God said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten fruit from the tree I commanded you not to eat from?” The man said, “It’s the fault of the woman you put here with me. She gave me some fruit from the tree. And I ate it.” Then the LORD God said to the woman, “What have you done?” The woman said, “The serpent tricked me. That’s why I ate the fruit.” So the LORD God spoke to the serpent. He said, “Because you have done this, “You are set apart from all livestock and all wild animals. I am putting a curse on you. You will crawl on your belly. You will eat dust all the days of your life. I will make you and the woman hate each other. Your children and her children will be enemies. Her son will crush your head. And you will bite his heel.” The LORD God said to the woman, “I will increase your pain when you give birth. You will be in great pain when you have children. You will long for your husband. And he will rule over you.” The LORD God said to Adam, “You listened to your wife’s suggestion. You ate fruit from the tree I warned you about. I said, ‘You must not eat its fruit.’ “So I am putting a curse on the ground because of what you did. All the days of your life you will have to work hard. It will be painful for you to get food from the ground. You will eat plants from the field, even though the ground produces thorns and prickly weeds. You will have to work hard and sweat a lot to produce the food you eat. You were made out of the ground. You will return to it when you die. You are dust, and you will return to dust.” Adam named his wife Eve. She would become the mother of every living person. The LORD God made clothes out of animal skins for Adam and his wife to wear. The LORD God said, “Just like one of us, the man can now tell the difference between good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out and pick fruit from the tree of life and eat it. If he does, he will live forever.” So the LORD God drove the man out of the Garden of Eden. He sent the man to farm the ground he had been made from. The LORD God drove him out and then placed angels on the east side of the garden. He also placed there a flaming sword that flashed back and forth. The angels and the sword guarded the way to the tree of life.

I don't consider anything here to be something one must try to figure out. It's clear, the snake after learning about God's rule went against God and coerced Eve and Adam, he was standing with her, to partake of the tree. Obviously before they partook of the fruit they were not wise enough to figure out the snake's motives so why God punished Adam and Eve for being unwise, I just don't get it.