God is on our side, calls us to resist the NWO --- Scriptural evidence & explanation of judgment

a reply to: SeaWorthy

I have faith in God, I have a conscience and yet I’m not Christian. I guess it’s eternal hellfire for me.

a reply to: chr0naut

My personal situation is just fine thanks, and it's also my concern, not yours. Being so judgmental means that you're taking on the mantle of God's righteous judgment. Are you sure you'll use that as wisely as you should?

People underestimate the power of the Law, Old Testament style. Not a jot of the Law will pass away until the Second Coming, so said the Lord Jesus Himself, and there is a vast store of wisdom relating to how God deals with people who are not New Testament believers, in the OT. And I maintain, God deals with them in fairness & without hostility. His actions & decisions are noted in the many scriptural quotes I included in the OP. I deliberately stayed in the Old Testament, because it is precisely that wisdom which hints to us how God will deal in fairness with all people, regardless of whether they of of the Judeo-Christian faith.

Surely you can understand that?

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: SeaWorthy

I have faith in God, I have a conscience and yet I’m not Christian. I guess it’s eternal hellfire for me.

Only god knows that, but it surprises me, Jesus and the Christian bible is the only ones who has managed to explain the reason why everything is as it is. Anyone who looks deeply I am surprised they would not follow his way and teachings if they believe in a creator.

Remember Paul actually started out killing Christians. You never know, I certainly didn't begin well

Acts 22
3 “I am a Jew. I was born in the city of Tarsus in the country of Cilicia. When I was a young man, I lived here in Jerusalem. I went to Gamaliel’s school and learned all about the Law of our early fathers. I worked hard for God as you all do today.

4 “I worked hard and killed men and women who believed as I believe today. I put them in chains and sent them to prison. 5 The head religious leader and the leaders of the people can tell you this is true. I got letters from them to take to our Jewish brothers in the city of Damascus. I was going there to put the Christians in chains and bring them to Jerusalem where they would be beaten.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment


Galatians 3
10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under the curse. For it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the Book of the Law, to do them.”[c] 11 Now it is evident that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, for “The just shall live by faith.”[d] 12 But the law is not of faith, for “The man who does them shall live by them.”[e] 13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law by being made a curse for us—as it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”[f]— 14 so that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

I stopped reading after "God is misunderstood". What a pretentious thing to say.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Any thoughts on what God thinks of those who never had access to the Christian Bible?

Seems the word of God is beholden to the effectiveness of it's publisher.

Not that i disagree with everything you say, i think Christianity has some useful metaphors buried within biblical scripture.

perhaps this is what He thought >>

King James Bible But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jeremiah 31:33 biblehub.com...

a reply to: Grenade

Any thoughts on what God thinks of those who never had access to the Christian Bible?

I think the OP describes very well what God thinks towards those who have had no access - how could He condemn them, if they never had access? By the same token, it's going to be much harder for someone who was abused by a priest to ever understand the love of God towards them, they will understandably not trust, have doubts, even express anger towards God.

As per some of the scripture I shared, God looks at the heart, and considers all the circumstances. To state that one variable (believing in Jesus) cancels out the entirety of the context of that person's life & heart, their mindset & their love for family & so on, is ridiculous, and any intellectually honest person, whether a Christian or not, cannot seriously sit there & say God will condemn a human being on the basis of one factor, the reasons for their belief concerning which may be complex & dynamic, full of nuance, trauma & grief - God looks at the heart, the circumstance of their life, and the wider context.

He is the only One who CAN judge fairly, and the evidence of near-death experiences shows that God is merciful, incredibly loving, gracious, kind & forgiving, blessing intensely people who even may not have held a good impression of themselves.

I have no time for anyone who takes a hard line on demanding that a person must be a hardcore committed Christian to provide for them the foundation of what God thinks of them, and what destiny He has in store for them.

Christians often forget that one of the most wonderful promises in Scripture is ~

... I lavish unfailing love for a thousand generations on those who love me and obey my commands.

Exodus 20: 6

God blesses to a thousand generations in the family line of a faithful believer - those people in that family line are favoured & blessed with good circumstance, opportunity & prosperity, even if they themselves are not a faithful believer. But the blessings provided in accordance with that promise will generally lead them to live a charmed life, loving their families & working hard for their communities - that is His heart towards His children, and when people take a look at the vast bulk of near death literature, they will find that this is echoed, again & again & again ~ "God is light, in Him there is no darkness at all" (1 John 1:5)

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts

Absolutely right, thank you for including that one from Jeremiah. As per the thousand generation blessing, God writes His laws on tablets of flesh, in the heart, and these people naturally lead a righteous life, blessing their families, friends & communities, doing wonderful things in the world. It is a bigot & a zealot who will tell you a person must believe specifically in Jesus as personal Lord & saviour in order for God to love them & bless them.

Let me not be misunderstood - I believe that the true Christian walk with God is the most blessed thing that can arise in a person's life as they live on the Earth, and the glories of that relationship are beyond compare. But Jesus came to seek & save those who were lost, and He stated that the healthy do not require a doctor, it is only those who are already sick that need the doctor, the 'Great Physician' as He is sometimes known. He came to lead the captives out of their prisons of darkness, to call the lost son or daughter, the prodigal, to turn & come home again, those who are oppressed & abused & despised - these are the outcasts, and He came for all of them, to honour them with a seat at the banqueting table. But those who are well, who lead righteous lives, who have the law of God inscribed on their hearts as their own God-given consciences - the Lord takes care of them too, but He did not come to save them, they are already safe in God's hands. It's a bold claim to make, in the eyes of many fundamentalist or evangelical Christians, but I'm an evangelical with knowledge which makes me certain that what I have claimed is true.

Naturally, the Christ-led life is optimal, but God doesn't condemn those who walk in righteousness, that would be crazy, and would not be FAIR JUDGMENT. The Scriptures state again & again that God judges fairly.

So if we can see from our limited human perspective that it would be unfair to condemn a truly righteous person, why would God, who is perfect, judge unfairly in that case?

a reply to: UncleAnimal

You are a fool to say that, quite frankly. If you had read further, you would have seen what was intended by those opening words. Thanks for vacating the thread anyway, looks like you wouldn't have had much to bring to the table with that opening salvo...

a reply to: SeaWorthy

Not sure what your point is, perhaps offer your opinion or explain your motivation for including that scripture. Thanks.


ETA - I see you are condemning me for drawing wisdom from the Old Testament. Where did I say that I rely on the Law? What did I say? That those who are not under the New Covenant are still being dealt with according to the Law, and although yes, it is 'death' (death is for all of us, don't forget - nobody escapes it) to be 'under the Law', yet God blesses, loves, calls, teaches, prophesies & grants wisdom through the words of the Old Testament. If they are not under the new covenant, what would the old covenant suggest might be derivative in terms of their spiritual station? And don't forget literally everything else I've said in the thread - principally, that God is gracious & merciful, as the psalms state again & again. He deals with people & judges them fairly, He will surround them with love & blessing at various times for various reasons, and to a thousand generations He will bless the bloodline of a faithful believer.

So your point, while valid if a person is arguing that living according to Jewish precepts alone is sufficient to inherit sainthood, is not valid when taken as a human judgment against those who are living according to conscience, in good faith with their families, friends & communities, committing no evil. Only God can judge such people, and it is wise to remember this - that He does so fairly, and the Old Testament shows plenty of evidence of the love of God for ordinary people.

To Gideon: "Hail, mighty warrior!", said the angel, though he was of the smallest tribe, in the weakest, poorest family, and himself the youngest, most frail son of that family. God took that humble young man on a journey to greatness, and loved him from start to finish. Just one example. There are hundreds.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

It’s my opinion that no-one could ever understand what god thinks and those who claim to know are deluding themselves.

Which is precisely what I have stated in this thread - no human can make a statement regarding how God will judge a person, for He judges fairly, looking at the heart, gracious & understanding of the varied circumstances of their lives, the nuances of their philosophical thought, their deeds in the world, the love they have for family, friends & community.

However, what you seem to believe is that God has never made any statement to a human regarding the manner in which He thinks, His plans for humanity & for individual humans, nations & communities, times of war & peace, etc.

In actual fact, the prophetic tradition, first in Judaism & then in Christianity confirms that God has indeed spoken to us, again & again, and these prophetic words, from the Logos, Christ the Living Word, were recorded throughout the Judeo-Christian scriptures. In the Old Testament time people would visit a prophet & ask him or her to enquire of God regarding some facet of the details of their lives, when searching for an answer re: how to resolve a particular situation. The prophet would pray, perhaps also perform a short fast, then would sleep, expecting that the vision, the narrative answer for the enquiring person, would be demonstrated clearly, usually through a potent spiritual dream, or in a vision of some sort occurring prior to sleep or upon awakening.

In modern, New Testament times, we all can ask the Lord to give us the gift of prophecy - indeed, the Apostle Paul told us to "..earnestly desire to prophesy", hence quite a significant proportion of people in active, charismatic churches operate in a simlar manner to old time prophecy, but frequently now, people will pray for the enquiring person one to one, or with a couple of partners in prayer. The Lord then typically responds by sending a clear vision, and the understanding of that vision, to enable the prophet to explain what the message means. And beyond this, prophets will work at varying scale indicators of authority - prophecy at the level of a church house gorup, at the level of the local community church, at regional levels with a number of churches under the prophetic mantle of authority given to that person by the Lord, a measure of strong anointing to enable them to carry the vision for the larger region. And it goes even higher, to the level of nation states & the international church.

What I hope I have expressed clearly is that God still speaks today, and thus we can know some of His thoughts towards us, though we could never comprehend the mind of God, as confirmed in scripture, and made certain by the application of logic.

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD.

Isaiah 55: 8

a reply to: Grenade

Another piece of scripture which emphasises the circumstances in which God becomes 'angry'...

I want no more of your pious meetings.
I hate your new moon celebrations and your annual festivals.
They are a burden to me. I cannot stand them!
When you lift up your hands in prayer, I will not look.
Though you offer many prayers, I will not listen,
for your hands are covered with the blood of innocent victims.
Wash yourselves and be clean!
Get your sins out of my sight.
Give up your evil ways.

Learn to do good.
Seek justice.
Help the oppressed.
Defend the cause of orphans.
Fight for the rights of widows.

Again, this shows that God is concerned with justice & the prevention of oppression of the weak.

God is not just angry/judgmental for no apparent reason. Throughout their history, the Jews again & again & again refused to follow the ways of God, who had covenanted an agreement of blessing, protection & prosperity for the Jews, but so often they turned back from behaving in a just, compassionate & honourable manner, depriving the poor of their rights & relentlessly oppressing the weak.

This is why it is so common to hear angry words of judgment from the Lord in the Old Testament. They had an agreement by which sacrifices & offerings would remove the guilt of their sinfulness, if they were to behave in a manner befitting that of a holy nation, which was called to be a light in the darkness, a nation of sanctity showing the right path to the other nations (most of whom still practiced human sacrifice, even children murdered by being burnt alive).

The Israelites were commissioned to raise the standards of behaviour in the Old Middle East, and eventually they would receive a promised 'Messiah', a chosen one who would redeem from sin once & for all, no need for additional sacrifices, only belief & a heart which is turned to the good, behaviour befitting a holy nation. And by Christ's sacrifice, that holy nation was expanded to include all nations, all being taught by Apostles who knew the Lord or had close spiritual communion with Him. Grace was instituted in the New Covenant, by which our sins are continuously forgiven if we turn our hearts from the evil we have done, and live in a way which brings honour to the name of Christ, whom we follow through choice, not mere servitude. We are indeed servants, but we are also brothers & sisters of the King, and our lives are spiritually blessed by close communion with God through the action of His Spirit - the 'Holy' Spirit of Jesus, connecting us with the Father, by grace, helping us to live lives which are spiritually purer than we could manage on our own. God shares wisdom with us through prayer, visions, dreams & the spoken word of ministers who teach & facilitate our growth as a community under the authority of Christ.

Jesus said:

The thief’s purpose is to steal, kill & destroy. My purpose is to give them a rich and satisfying life.

John 10: 10

The entire purpose of the Lord is to bless His people - those who come to know Him through the Spirit recognise this is absolutely & irrevocably true - there is nothing in this world that can compare - the void is filled & our hearts are full with the love of God.

We are supposed to share the wisdom & the love that we receive, and if we are fortunate to be materially blessed, we are called to share a portion of our funds to aid in the furtherance of the Kingom through charitable endeavour.

I hope this proves helpful to reveal more of God's purposes, to ensure that God is understood more clearly, to remove the impediment of incorrect belief that God is 'angry & judgmental' towards ordinary people who live righteous lives. If there is any way you can find it in your heart to believe in the mission of Christ, invite Him to enter your heart, ask Him to directly reveal His presence there, and He will, and you will find an adventure to which nothing can compare. The life of the Christian, when properly understood, is incomparably satisfying.

Cheers,


FITO.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

I should add that initially ,the Israelites were also called to fulfil a war of conquest & destruction of the most evil tribes which at that time lived in the area which is now Israel. They were called to destroy the last remnants of the races which were tainted by the echo of the sons of the Watchers with human women, the Nephilim, also known as giants - because they were literal giants.

This aspect of the Jews' history is the least understood & most mischaracterised. They waged a war of conquest, and when that war was won, they occupied the land & defended their new territory. But they were called, after that time, to live in a more righteous manner than any of the barbarous tribes they had expelled/ destroyed. This war was necessary according to divine mandate, because of the corrupting influence of the Nephilim remnant, who had basically been the cause of the former deluge in paleo-ancient times, and who were continuing to negatively influence the overall cultural matrix of the Old Middle East at that time.

The consequences of their influence were known to God, and God deemed it necessary that they be removed forcefully, so that they could not overly influence world culture as it otherwise would have developed across the past six thousand years. We dodged a bullet when the Jews destroyed the remanant of the Nephilim - they were murdering cannibals who abused their subjects & enslaved ordinary humans. They had to go, it was them or us. The Jews were selected to remove them, and they did an average job in only partially fulfilling the task over a very long period of time, a lot of the reasons God was angry with the Jews comes down to their intermingling with the culture-killing Nephilim remnant.

This 'anti-Nephilim' matter is the 'hidden' aspect of Jewish history, and as noted, has been most mischaracterised, misunderstood, etc. It was a dirty job, but someone had to do it. Remember that God has a perspective that is infinitely more elevated than our own - it wasn't pleasant, but it was necessary.

That's all I'll say about that for now. All of it was preparing the ground for Christ, ultimately, who elevated the standards of behaviour in our world by a factor of magnitude which is incomparably heightened, compared to any other culture-bearer or teacher in any time throughout our history. As Napoleon famously said:

I know men, and I tell you Jesus Christ was not a man.

Superficial minds see a resemblance between Christ and the founders of empires and the gods of other religions. That resemblance does not exist.

There is between Christianity and other religions the distance of infinity.

Jesus Christ alone founded His empire upon love; and at this hour millions of men will die for Him.

Alexander, Cæsar, Charlemagne and myself founded empires. But on what did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon sheer force. Jesus Christ alone founded His empire upon love; and at this hour millions of men will die for Him. In every other existence but that of Christ how many imperfections!

From the first day to the last He is the same; majestic and simple; infinitely firm and infinitely gentle. He proposes to our faith a series of mysteries and commands with authority that we should believe them, giving no other reason than those tremendous words, ‘I am God.’

The Bible contains a complete series of acts and of historical men to explain time and eternity, such as no other religion has to offer.

If it is not the true religion, one is very excusable in being deceived; for everything in it is grand and worthy of God.

Napoleon Bonaparte

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

It’s my opinion that no-one could ever understand what god thinks and those who claim to know are deluding themselves.

Don't claim defeat so early! There's gotta be a way to commune with God. It takes focus and minimized distractions. When I fall back into mindless sinful habits I lose touch, but when I return to truth I see the world begin to transform within me and outside me. There is truth to be had. The prophets in the Old Testament who accurately predicted the coming of Jesus shows that we can connect with the eternal God who transcends all these earthly limitations.

a reply to: cooperton

Communication and understanding are two different things. I've experienced what i would describe as transcendence, i've known what it is to experience ego death and yet i couldn't even begin to describe how that feels or what that realm entails. Beyond the prison of our reality our collective consciousness is indescribable, to know everything and be everyone is the mind of God, as individuals this concept is fractured and diluted.

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
a reply to: UncleAnimal

You are a fool to say that, quite frankly. If you had read further, you would have seen what was intended by those opening words. Thanks for vacating the thread anyway, looks like you wouldn't have had much to bring to the table with that opening salvo...

Thanks. I appreciate your comment. I never intended to insult you. Somehow, you did towards me. How did I upset you so much?

a reply to: UncleAnimal

I felt it was foolish that you made a snap judgement about the content of the thread without actually reading beyond the first sentence. You do realise that such a move is quite foolish? If you come across new information in the assessment of a topic, reading the content before responding is pretty much a no-brainer. So quite frankly I don't really care that you feel insulted, it was insulting for you to add a trash comment on the thread, a stupid response having not even read past the first sentence. You see?

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment Not all comments have to be 4 paragraphs. I responded. In a simple comment. After reading your OP.

I read your whole post, your assumption I didn't is your own problem.

Foolish is saying more than you have to. Which I did not. I made my point. I'm not sorry you felt insulted by it.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

It’s my opinion that no-one could ever understand what god thinks and those who claim to know are deluding themselves.

So is it any wonder that cults of all flavors gravitate to ideologies that can morph into a religion with nothing more than a charismatic leader and a promise of a better life.