It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
originally posted by: whereislogic
Then if I point that out, you'll just deny it again. Even though it's obvious from my previous commentary that none of these things you bring up now is part of my argumentation and if there's any "wide-brushing" going on, it would be you trying to paint that onto my argumentation.
originally posted by: Grenade
Intelligent design doesn’t have to be perfect. Cars don’t last forever do they? Yet the design and manufacture is the result of intelligence. Maybe this is one simulation among many in order to find a perfect solution to a problem.
originally posted by: Xtrozero
... You are trying to suggest that just using the term machine for anything also means intelligent design.
originally posted by: TerraLiga
a reply to: whereislogic
It's not terminology I have a problem with, ...
originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Xtrozero
Simple process?
originally posted by: TerraLiga
Whereislogic: 1. Are machinery and technology the product of engineering? Yes or no? (the argument of induction above is based on the established fact that they are, i.e. "yes")
TerraLiga: 1. Yes, of course. Products are designed for a purpose or function, unless they have none, in which case it is art.
originally posted by: whereislogic
You and TerraLiga have already acknowledged that machines are the product of engineering, because your answer to the first question was yes. That means that the term "natural machines" that you mentioned is contradictory if it is meant to imply that these machines were the product of a natural process, the forces of nature (in the context that you used it). And that is not engineering. There is no such thing as a "natural machine" in that sense.
originally posted by: Grenade
Who knows, I don’t know nor claim to know God personally. It’s entirely possible the creator of this universe could be flawed.
You are the only one using the statement "machines are the product of engineering", so that is your point, not anyone else.
originally posted by: Grenade
For the last time, I'm not a Christian.
originally posted by: Grenade
Both examples of intelligence driven processes.
originally posted by: Xtrozero
a reply to: whereislogic
Let's just say that your statement "machines are the product of engineering" is not correct in suggesting all machines. I would be more inclined to say that technology is a product of engineering whereas the term machine is more of a term describing a process that could be intelligent design or not. Saying that the usage of any word doesn't write in stone what something is or is not. I might use the term engineering to explain something totally non-intelligence and you could disagree with me, but in my use, it doesn't automatically suggest anything.
This is what happens when you make blanket statements and demand just a yes or no answer. Hence why I said, OK...I'll play your game.
originally posted by: cooperton
Biologists use the term cellular machinery because it acts like engineered machinery. ATP synthase works just like a motor...
When you have to start re-defining words to salvage your belief system that's a sign you're straying from objective reality