Those who cheer for totalitarian control over their lives are insecure little babies

a reply to: forum

So is liberty.

I could make enough bread in 30 mins with a bread maker to feed multiple families.

That said I could also have authorities demanding I cease giving food away without the right documents so there's a lot of truth in what you say.

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain
Honestly, seems a little oversimplified and hyperbolic to me.

I mean, I doubt people who bought into totalitarian type governments had in mind that they would have the state care for them from cradle to grave without having to lift a finger. It wasn't even presented that way.

It was naive to think everyone was going to work hard and get a good sized slice of the pie without greed showing up and having those in power keeping most of the pie for themselves but everyone knew they were still expected to meet their responsibilities.

a reply to: daskakik

I mean, I doubt people who bought into totalitarian type governments had in mind that they would have the state care for them from cradle to grave without having to lift a finger. It wasn't even presented that way.

If the quotes are not enough, and they really don't do justice how good this book really is, buy it and read it. The whole point is that this is something we are not aware about, so saying "...had in mind that they would have the state care..." is not what I wrote.

Try read the book then you will understand it's not hyperbole but has a good foundation in psychology.

Those who cheer for totalitarian control over their lives are insecure little babies

Don't lump them all together - They are all Individuals and they are all different.

originally posted by: Jamie2018
Those who cheer for totalitarian control over their lives are insecure little babies

Don't lump them all together - They are all Individuals and they are all different.

Have you read the rest of the OP?

originally posted by: ThatDamnDuckAgain

originally posted by: Jamie2018
Those who cheer for totalitarian control over their lives are insecure little babies

Don't lump them all together - They are all Individuals and they are all different.

Have you read the rest of the OP?

Yes that's why I posted the video.

Did you watch the video - It's mocking people who want someone to control their lives.

a reply to: Jamie2018
No, I saw the movie before and can't watch videos anyways, most of the time.

Don't lump them all together - They are all Individuals and they are all different.

Well the underlying psychology does that already. Just merely pointing it out, I won't deny that there are also just sociopaths and other disturbed minds that cheer for this, though.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain
Yes, the burdens of freedom in a society are real. Those burdens entail nasty little words like responsibility and accountability among others, and some folks don't do very well with them.

Yes. Those things that once were thought of as expectations one required to grow up, mature, and become productive and successful in society.

I wonder if our own dislike of having to fight to acquire those characteristics, is why we tried so hard to prevent our children from having to walk that path.

Many of my friends and constituents have grown children still living at home, dependent on them, that are over 30 years old. Most of them with college degrees.

They have plenty of excuses for why they have done nothing with their lives, and a different plan everyday for what they will do in the future. But to me, it looks like they are just waiting for their parents to die.

Sad thing is whatever inheritance they get, will be gone in a short amount of time and they will be in the streets. Expecting the government to take care of them.

Our society looks much like the Utopia mouse experiment, and most of us know how that ended.

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain
You may not have written "state care" but that is what is hinted at by your use of "totalitarian control".

That is the idea you presented, "the primitive child in his unconscious yearns for more complete protection and irresponsibility". Complete protection is care and how would the next generation be effected if you are not talking about instituting such ideas at the governmental level?

That is not to say that there isn't some truth to that, I just had to listen to my wife after a grueling day at work say: "I long for the days when I was a kid and didn't have a care in the world" for an example of that but you added a bit of political spin to it.

a reply to: daskakik
Yes it is, I think I lost something in translation maybe. Your example with your wife is something very fitting, I think a lot of us have thought or said this at least once in a similar manner.

I quoted and answered on this, I highlight it bold what I think the core argument/point of this was.

I mean, I doubt people who bought into totalitarian type governments had in mind that they would have the state care for them from cradle to grave without having to lift a finger. It wasn't even presented that way.

I did not write something like this but may have made the impression. This is not something I tried to say and I too think it's not a valid statement. We really agree on this, I think there is a misunderstanding on that meaning.



Add: Oh but I wanted to write too, that the quotes are not doing justice to the book. It's a very good read and IMHO not very political leaned. Zosimov brought it up and it's a gold mine of interesting pathways of thought.

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

I have said this time and time again about many of those who call themselves libertarians. They want all their vices legalized but they still want the social welfare state to catch them when the consequences of those vices make normal life difficult to impossible.

They want all the fun with none of the responsibility.

a reply to: ketsuko
I would not put everyone in a single basket. I think any human is made of different political fractions. Like one is traditional in different personal matters or progressive, while another topic is important to change, or stay the same...

originally posted by: incoserv
This was clear when I told my son, "You need to think for yourself," and he responded, "I don't need to think for myself."

I didn't raise him with that mentality. (We're, honestly, pretty certain there's s female involved, sadly.) His saying that made clear to me that he was in regression to state of immaturity and irresponsibility.

You're telling him that he has to think a certain way, and he is disagreeing with you. And he's dating someone you don't approve of? Classic teenager. It sounds like he is thinking for himself.

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain
I know you didn't say it in those words, but the quote from the book specifically says: "Totalitarianism appeals to this confused infant in all of us; it seems to offer a solution to the problems man's double yearning creates."

That is plainly political and sniping at a very specific type of politics. Now, if we look at propaganda from these types of governments we don't see a promise to be free from responsibility.

Given the original publication date of the book, it isn't surprising that this sentiment was expressed in a book directed at western readers, so while it may be true that humans long to be free from responsibility at some level, totalitarianism never actually offered that.

I just couldn't help but notice that a book with "the psychology of thought control" in the title seemed to be doing that which it was, from the couple of snippets you provided, criticizing.

We’re all insecure little babies when the # hits the fan. When you get into a fist fight, no matter how tough, prepared, or experienced you are at it, each time you get that first fist in your face it’s a shock, a wake up call that knocks those fantasies of macho BS you’d been unwittingly nurturing out of you in a ringing instant.

At that point you have a choice, push forward, or back down. But no matter how well you recover your shattered delusion of invincibility, your ‘character’, in that initial moment after your face took its first impact of the day you are an insecure little baby.

Imo (because it’s only opinion until you’re in the frakked zone of a real social revolution of blood and violence, in which rules no longer apply - a free for all with your loved ones no longer safe in their homes… at least a lot less safe) until that happens all this talk is just talk and maybe, just maybe if that day ever comes they’ll be some among you that will cheer when totalitarian control is restored.

You’ll all think, ‘Not me, no way!?’ Well good luck to you! You’ll need it.

And for context, i come from waaay over the wrong side of the tracks. I grew up preying for that revolution to fix the inequality. I wanted to eat the rich. A few beers, or some bad luck and I still feel that way. But 50 years on, one thing I’ve learnt is that nothing is as straight forward, or black and white as you think it’ll be and you need to be careful what you wish for. I haven’t switched sides or ever cheered the controllers. But when it all comes down and TSHTF, it won’t surprise me if for a little while, hopefully not so that it puts me down, I’ll probably be an insecure little baby.

a reply to: zosimov
That's a great quote, I can relate to it all too well.

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

I didn't. I said many. There are also those who understand that libertarianism is taking on the freedom with the responsibility of it.

Yes, you could, but do you think you should? That's libertarianism. Just because you can doesn't always mean it's a good idea to, and sometimes, having the freedom to do something comes with big penalties or lots of hard work in order to enjoy that freedom.

Today people want it without wanting to acknowledge the realities of needing to work for it and earn it or accept that maybe they shouldn't have it.

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

You are 100% right. Those same people are also all control freaks. Not just control freaks of their lives, but they want to control everyone else's lives completely. These are the people that love socialism and communism...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

You are 100% right. Those same people are also all control freaks. Not just control freaks of their lives, but they want to control everyone else's lives completely. These are the people that love socialism and communism...

It's the insecurity again.

If you're secure in yourself, then it doesn't bother you when you make a choice and no one else chooses like you do. But, if you're insecure, it's hard to impossible to just go your own way and accept that no one else is also going that way. Say you really, really want to go a way but no one else does, then maybe they should be forced to ... there's your control freak impulse.

a reply to: ketsuko
I should have written it different.

Yes, you could, but do you think you should? That's libertarianism. Just because you can doesn't always mean it's a good idea to, and sometimes, having the freedom to do something comes with big penalties or lots of hard work in order to enjoy that freedom.

There are sub classes of libertarian mindset, like anarcho-libertarian or classic libertarian, or US and European libertarian. Not everyone libertarian leaned is a fan of general anarchy. I like personal individual anarchy, it means I am free to decide about my body. Anarchy has a bad taste but it just classifies lawlessness in a certain environment.

Like if we would not restrict companies by laws to at least abide by some rules, let's say a building code or financial transfers, contracts, economic laws, we would have economic anarchy. That would be bad for the individual.