Why Would Black Mistrust in the Government be Justified While White Mistrust is Hostile?

a reply to: rounda

Generalizations allow you to take a few different truths, and lump them together, in order to make a broader statement that appears true, when it is not. It is a common tool used in deception, one that we so often use on ourselves. We go into a new city, we see two women wearing red shoes, we turn the corner and see four women wearing red shoes. We go home and say, "All the women in that city were wearing red shoes."

Generalizations speak more of our perceptions, then what is true.

Black people are not the only ones that listen to what is broadcasted on the radio. They are not the only ones that purchase the music you describe.

A generalization based on limited data is nothing more than stereotyping. Stereotyping takes untrue ideas and mixes them in with partially true ideas, creating a false narrative.

I do have an issue with generalizations, for all the reasons I have described. I don't know what that has to do with having fun at parties, but I don't go to parties where the conversation is about race or politics. In fact, I have been to four parties in four months, and the subjects never came up. And we all had a blast.

I am not trying to be snarky, and I am not trying to antagonize you. I don't like those kind of conversations, they are pointless. I believe that you do not intentionally mean to harm, but I believe your posts to be untrue and potentially harmful.

I think we both understand each other, and I don't see any purpose in continuing this conversation, because I am not trying to change your mind. I will say that I understand why you feel the way you do.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Ahhhh, there we go. "A generalization... is stereotyping."

Great way to ignore talking about an issue. That's the equivalent of calling me racist.

Hey, guess what? Unless you go door to door and ask every black person if they call other black people "n**ger," you're always going to have "limited data." I guess we should just not talk about it because you can't get past the generalization.

Or maybe only black people can talk about this issue, because they're part of "community." Oops, that's a generalization they've made on themselves.

Amazing how you just can't get past someone not using the word "some."

You've been brainwashed well, friend. I remember being taught about generalizations and stereotyping in school. It was a precursor to CRT, and its complete nonsense.

originally posted by: zosimov
I’m sure there are some in the government and media and maybe even on ATS who would want to shut people like me up, which of course makes the rebel in me want to write more and to keep writing until they shut me down for good.

There is so much to write on the topic, but for today I'll focus on the way the media is framing (and fueling) the controversy depending on the race of the person who doesn’t want the shot.

If you’re white, you are a hostile, blind follower of Trump (even though Trump himself had the shot in secret, the media is always sure to tell you) misinformed, anti-science paranoid conspiracy theorist who is doubling down merely to make Joe Biden look bad.

Despite the best efforts of some health and government officials, outright hostility against getting vaccinated has taken root among some conservative segments of America. It’s a trend that experts say will be extremely difficult to overcome, thanks to deep political polarization and the spread of misinformation.

There has been increasing rhetoric, from the president on down, that these Americans are killing people with their stupidity and don’t deserve a voice and/or a place in civil society.

Now shut up and roll up your sleeves and jab your babies too; we won’t be happy w/o 100% compliance rate, and if it turns out that there is something to the reports of (for example) heart inflammation, then of course it’s prudent to force it on the entire human race. Boosters too.
Because science has never been wrong. It might not be “wrong,” but it does change, and in the words of Fauci himself:
"[I]t isn't a question of being wrong. It's a question of going with the data as you have, and being humble enough and flexible enough to change with the data www.axios.com...

For the people of color, though, who represent large swathes of vaccine hesitancy, the media has another story. They’re never mentioned in the accusatory and aggressive articles such as the following:
globalnews.ca...
It’s way more fun (and socially acceptable) to blame the white Republicans for the pandemic (despite such players as Gain-of-Function fauci and
Care-Home-Covid Cuomo who certainly have their share of the blame).
The people who aren’t white who don’t want the jab have justified fears of the government, or because they’re underserved, according to studies and the narrative:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
www.kff.org...

Which brings me to my main question:
If the white Americans and black Americans share the same governing body, why should white Americans trust the same government they acknowledge has been (and continues to be) oppressing and damaging the health of other people?
An untrustworthy and unjust regime for one is an untrustworthy and unjust regime for all.
Which one is it, America?
As for me, I stand shoulder-to-shoulder with black America and do not trust the government always does what is in the best interest of its constituents. One of the biggest horrors of antebellum south in my opinion was the local and federal government’s refusal to combat, address, or even in most cases prosecute the most despicable crimes against innocent victims. The US army was responsible for massacres against the native population.
Doctors contributed terribly to the health crisis by overprescribing opiates (doctors are not infallible):
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...


The media should be ashamed of its inflammatory and divisive racist tactics (let’s see who’s here to discuss the media’s approach to the crisis, and who is here to shoot the messenger!).

Because its one giant gaslight.

Im old enough to remember Kamala saying during the debate that she wasnt going to take a Trump vaccine. I guess thats an example of this forgivable mistrust of govt by non-white people. Ironic.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: zosimov

I'm still working on the idea of mistrust in government as a general thing with Americans.

But this just in: Statement by Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States of America

07/18/21
Joe Biden kept talking about how good of a job he's doing on the distribution of the Vaccine that was developed by Operation Warp Speed or, quite simply, the Trump Administration. He's not doing well at all. He's way behind schedule, and people are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don't trust his Administration, they don't trust the Election results, and they certainly don't trust the Fake News, which is refusing to tell the Truth.

The Donald is linking refusal to take his OWS vaccine with mistrust in the election results and the "Fake News".

There seems to be some sort of correlation, even if very slight, between listening to this guy's claims and mistrust in government in general.

Didnt Trump have COVID?

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: zosimov

I'm still working on the idea of mistrust in government as a general thing with Americans.

But this just in: Statement by Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States of America

07/18/21
Joe Biden kept talking about how good of a job he's doing on the distribution of the Vaccine that was developed by Operation Warp Speed or, quite simply, the Trump Administration. He's not doing well at all. He's way behind schedule, and people are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don't trust his Administration, they don't trust the Election results, and they certainly don't trust the Fake News, which is refusing to tell the Truth.

The Donald is linking refusal to take his OWS vaccine with mistrust in the election results and the "Fake News".

There seems to be some sort of correlation, even if very slight, between listening to this guy's claims and mistrust in government in general.

Didnt Trump have COVID?

Yes, he did. His was treated with Remdesivir.

a reply to: BrujaRebooted

Didnt Trump have COVID?

Yes. So he followed the recommended waiting time before receiving his vaccine.

originally posted by: rounda

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: zosimov

I'm still working on the idea of mistrust in government as a general thing with Americans.

But this just in: Statement by Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States of America

07/18/21
Joe Biden kept talking about how good of a job he's doing on the distribution of the Vaccine that was developed by Operation Warp Speed or, quite simply, the Trump Administration. He's not doing well at all. He's way behind schedule, and people are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don't trust his Administration, they don't trust the Election results, and they certainly don't trust the Fake News, which is refusing to tell the Truth.

The Donald is linking refusal to take his OWS vaccine with mistrust in the election results and the "Fake News".

There seems to be some sort of correlation, even if very slight, between listening to this guy's claims and mistrust in government in general.

Didnt Trump have COVID?

Yes, he did. His was treated with Remdesivir.

I read his statement and agree with him. There are 10s of millions of people that do not accept the Biden admin due to the election problems and media bias. Those people are going to naturally resist. That problem should and must be addressed and strongarming and insulting them and tracking them with spooks isnt going to win them over at all.

a reply to: BrujaRebooted

He seems to be implying that if he (45) was still President then the vaccine rollout would have been more successful and a much greater percentage of Americans would be vaccinated by now.

Of course implications are implications and we shouldn't try to pin him down on "Vaccination: Pro or Con"

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: rounda

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: zosimov

I'm still working on the idea of mistrust in government as a general thing with Americans.

But this just in: Statement by Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States of America

07/18/21
Joe Biden kept talking about how good of a job he's doing on the distribution of the Vaccine that was developed by Operation Warp Speed or, quite simply, the Trump Administration. He's not doing well at all. He's way behind schedule, and people are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don't trust his Administration, they don't trust the Election results, and they certainly don't trust the Fake News, which is refusing to tell the Truth.

The Donald is linking refusal to take his OWS vaccine with mistrust in the election results and the "Fake News".

There seems to be some sort of correlation, even if very slight, between listening to this guy's claims and mistrust in government in general.

Didnt Trump have COVID?

Yes, he did. His was treated with Remdesivir.

I read his statement and agree with him. There are 10s of millions of people that do not accept the Biden admin due to the election problems and media bias. Those people are going to naturally resist. That problem should and must be addressed and strongarming and insulting them and tracking them with spooks isnt going to win them over at all.

Anyone with common sense should be resisting.

mRNA vaccines have failed to get FDA approval for at least a decade.

There is a reason why.

originally posted by: rounda

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: rounda

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: zosimov

I'm still working on the idea of mistrust in government as a general thing with Americans.

But this just in: Statement by Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States of America

07/18/21
Joe Biden kept talking about how good of a job he's doing on the distribution of the Vaccine that was developed by Operation Warp Speed or, quite simply, the Trump Administration. He's not doing well at all. He's way behind schedule, and people are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don't trust his Administration, they don't trust the Election results, and they certainly don't trust the Fake News, which is refusing to tell the Truth.

The Donald is linking refusal to take his OWS vaccine with mistrust in the election results and the "Fake News".

There seems to be some sort of correlation, even if very slight, between listening to this guy's claims and mistrust in government in general.

Didnt Trump have COVID?

Yes, he did. His was treated with Remdesivir.

I read his statement and agree with him. There are 10s of millions of people that do not accept the Biden admin due to the election problems and media bias. Those people are going to naturally resist. That problem should and must be addressed and strongarming and insulting them and tracking them with spooks isnt going to win them over at all.

Anyone with common sense should be resisting.

mRNA vaccines have failed to get FDA approval for at least a decade.

There is a reason why.

My argument wasnt about the pros and cons of the vaccine. It was about mistrust of the govt. And the very real problem in over 50 million people not believing the election was legit. Xiden admin is clearly struggling with the problem in the worst possible way. Im at a loss to understand why so few on the other side arent just as alarmed at the admins hamhanded and hostile response to the lack of faith.

I thought I knew where you were going here, but you surprised me. That's why I'm here. I'm not sure about everything here, but you make a good point. That's what libs and even some leftists don't understand. I'm sick of the "MAGAts", "poor white trash" stereotypes. I've been banned so much for pushing back on that online and I'm not a Trump supporter at all. But that's not the point. We're all in this together. There exists a Constitution, and our rights are no one else's to give us, regardless of race, gender, sexuality, culture, or religion. I am an anarchist and as such I hold that ALL leaders are a bad idea. There is no hope for reform. Their is only building something new. I'd love to get as many people across the spectrum to fight back. We'll need the numbers, and many on the "extreme right" have known the score way longer than most, and most still don't know, no matter how often and well we call the game. I believe we have a common foundation on which to build. Amendments 1, 2, and 4 and 5 should be ABSOLUTE. They all should be but you can't have one without the protection of the others. And if # pops off, we can do this. Even of we split # up after, all people should have the right of self determination. All Power to the People✊

a reply to: SolidarityLeftist

How exactly does being an anarchist and

Amendments 1, 2, and 4 and 5 should be ABSOLUTE. They all should be but you can't have one without the protection of the others.

fit together?

a reply to: pthena

I dont pretend to speak for them, but I can certainly give my own answer:

Most "mature" Anarchists realize that it is something to start working towards as a long term goal rather than something we shift to with rapidity (thats the lower case "a" anarchy, the colloquialism).

Meaning, if it is something that is achieved, it would probably be generations down the road.

In that, the spirit of those amendments would be upheld innately by society and civilization itself without any need to have it codified or legislated. Naturally, this also extends to a diverse collection of other aspects.. including simple things like putting the shopping cart in a good spot after unloading groceries in a car

In many ways we have always put a minority social group in power over others. Over time, we attempted to build structures that would limit the possible harm that comes with that dynamic (things like the Constitution, but others as well).

Clearly, we are in a position where those means of limiting harm have not been effective in some areas and we still have a lot of work to do. This certainly isnt about race specifically, as has been beautifully stated repeatedly. Its about the fact that social groups willing to commit harm on the rest of the population.. are willing to commit harm on the rest of the population. Intentional action might introduce moral implications, but unintended consequences can be just as bad in their real world effects.

a reply to: Serdgiam

When I look at the history of anarchist movements, it seems that anarchy is a tactic rather than a goal. The tactic is to tear something down so as to make way for something else.

If there is some flaw in the U.S. Constitution it can be fixed constitutionally.

Its about the fact that social groups willing to commit harm on the rest of the population.. are willing to commit harm on the rest of the population.

So social groups are the "problem". Somehow or other people vote based upon name recognition alot. That means the people with the biggest campaign war chest quite frequently win elections. Money = power.

Politicians quite often legislate in ways to keep their campaign coffers full, rather than to benefit their constituents.

If someone wanted to really make meaningful change they could try checking who has the smallest war chest and vote for that person. That would be revolutionary.

More excellent comments, all! Thank you for adding your insightful thoughts to the topic.

a reply to: SolidarityLeftist

Welcome!

I think it's awesome that you speak out against the rhetoric despite not approving of Trump.

a reply to: pthena

At the risk of going too far off topic; There is immense conflation between the system of Anarchy (and it is a system) and the colloquial "anarchy." The latter speaks to a rapid breakdown of societal and cultural patterns, and the former to an intentional organization under specific premises.

So-called "anarchist movements" are usually teens who think the anarchy "A" looks cool and want to "stick it to the man" regardless of cost. Or adults who think the same (lol). Importantly! These groups almost always use coercion up to and including force. This is in direct, undeniable opposition to one of the main premises of Anarchy.

It might be beneficial to come up with another term, libertarian doesnt really fit. But, its accurate outside of colloquial error, so it is what it is.

Anyway, I think one of the issues here is that it might be the system itself that corrupts individuals. So, we could vote in someone with the smallest war chest, but its probably only a matter of time before they can be convinced, coerced, or forced to act "appropriately." The entire apparatus exists to preserve itself, frequently at a high cost and even detriment to those who believe they benefit most.

Its not new or anything, more of a repeating pattern of the emergence of oligarchies. They appear to rise with predictability, but first there is a period of time where workarounds and loopholes are being explored (and not just consciously).

The Constitution went a long way in addressing this, particularly when considered in the context of its time. I even believe that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were one of the biggest steps towards Anarchy in history.

But now, we are living in a time where those workarounds and loopholes are being stretched into even bigger gaps. The disruption instrinsic to this takeover process is then blamed on racial inequality, and perhaps more relevantly, inequity.

It kinda looks like CRT was inculcated into large swathes of the population to skew their view of what is happening. Even in acadamic and analytical settings its a tool/lens that is turned on and off, not a way of life or foundation for ones entire perception of the world.

Beyond that, I think the lack of trust only looks strange to those who have (seemingly) forgotten.. a lot. And the amount of effort and resources being expended in the way that they are absolutely reeks of manipulation.

a reply to: Serdgiam

Beyond that, I think the lack of trust only looks strange to those who have (seemingly) forgotten.. a lot. And the amount of effort and resources being expended in the way that they are absolutely reeks of manipulation.

I read Howard Zinn's book, A People's History of the United States, back in 2009. Lot's of reasons to mistrust the government along with mistrust of the myth telling that passes for U.S. History.

The last time that the government had a serious reckoning was like 1975 Church Committee.

I was just as pissed off as most people when OJ Simpson got off: "The Prosecutor is a racist, therefore the Defendant is not guilty".

So Liberal Democracy is very much Anarchic (lacking a king), but it only works properly if the top dogs are held accountable, even down to cops on the beat. But accountability is what has been lacking for a very long time.

Bill Clinton should have turned himself over for arrest right after the Branch Davidians died. He very publicly stated "I hold myself completely responsible", then nothing. The FBI top agent on the scene was laughing during the Congressional hearing, "and we launched 200 canisters through these windows here".

George W. Bush should be in prison for starting a war on false pretenses and authorizing torture. But Obama was all like "we have to look forward and not back". Yeah, like it would fly if I robbed a bank and got caught and told the prosecutor, judge and jury. "Let's not look back at why or how I got this $200,000. Let's look ahead at how we can all benefit by splitting it up."

Sure I thought it was a bit of manipulation when Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, and Eric Garner were murdered and the perps got away with it and all of a sudden that's all the media wanted to talk about. It's not like cops murdering black people with impunity was a new thing in America.

Comes a tipping point when that just can't be ignored or allowed to continue. Accountability! Accountability! Accountability! For all levels of government.

originally posted by: SolidarityLeftist
And if # pops off, we can do this. Even of we split # up after, all people should have the right of self determination. All Power to the People✊

I'm sorry to have limited my comment to be about the t-man (I'm not really interested in him at all).

Just wanted to say I agree with you here!

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: rounda

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: rounda

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: zosimov

I'm still working on the idea of mistrust in government as a general thing with Americans.

But this just in: Statement by Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States of America

07/18/21
Joe Biden kept talking about how good of a job he's doing on the distribution of the Vaccine that was developed by Operation Warp Speed or, quite simply, the Trump Administration. He's not doing well at all. He's way behind schedule, and people are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don't trust his Administration, they don't trust the Election results, and they certainly don't trust the Fake News, which is refusing to tell the Truth.

The Donald is linking refusal to take his OWS vaccine with mistrust in the election results and the "Fake News".

There seems to be some sort of correlation, even if very slight, between listening to this guy's claims and mistrust in government in general.

Didnt Trump have COVID?

Yes, he did. His was treated with Remdesivir.

I read his statement and agree with him. There are 10s of millions of people that do not accept the Biden admin due to the election problems and media bias. Those people are going to naturally resist. That problem should and must be addressed and strongarming and insulting them and tracking them with spooks isnt going to win them over at all.

Anyone with common sense should be resisting.

mRNA vaccines have failed to get FDA approval for at least a decade.

There is a reason why.

My argument wasnt about the pros and cons of the vaccine. It was about mistrust of the govt. And the very real problem in over 50 million people not believing the election was legit. Xiden admin is clearly struggling with the problem in the worst possible way. Im at a loss to understand why so few on the other side arent just as alarmed at the admins hamhanded and hostile response to the lack of faith.

It ain't about the pros and cons of the vaccine.

Why haven't mRNA vaccines been approved, and why are they being used?

Who decided treating symptoms at your doctor's office like any other seasonal respiratory virus shouldn't happen, even though your doctors were having great success treating it?

Who decided "the science" changed every week? And who decided which "science" was valid?

Who decided "herd immunity" is about vaccines and not immune system exposure?

Who decided to shut down the economy?

Like I said, anyone with common sense should be resisting this vaccine. Or at the very least be getting the J&J.

Why are poor whites “trash” but poor blacks needing to be “uplifted”?