Warning! This thread may be used against you on the day of judgement!

a reply to: Seede

Abraham did write. He wrote Chizayon Avraham [The Apocalypse Of Abraham]--

LOL
Nah. Nobody believes that, otherwise it wouldn't be considered apocrypha. The Apocalypse of Abraham was written sometime after the destruction of first temple, in 587 BCE, when Nebuchadnezzar attacked Jerusalem and took many Hebrew/Jewish/Israelite leaders as exiled captives in Babylon.
www.jewishencyclopedia.com...

Abraham was not a Jew.

Abraham was the first Jew. He fathered Judaism by being the first to reject idolatry and recognize and commune with "the one and only god". His covenant with "God" made him the first Jew and his decedents Jewish (Israelites).

7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you.

Abraham's descendants were to be the Tribes of Israel, the embodiment of Judaism.

Moses was not a Judean [Jew]
Moses was from the tribe of Levites and was not from the tribe of Judah.

Moses was of the Tribe of Levi, an Israelite tribe of priests that represented the God of Abraham. Moses' destiny was to be a priest of the God of Abraham.

IF there were no Israelites, "Jews", people who worshipped the monotheist God of Abraham, then who were the chosen "My People" that Moses' God ordered him to free?

Then the LORD said to Moses, “Go in to Pharaoh and tell him, ‘Thus says the LORD God of the Hebrews: “Let My people go, that they may serve Me.

Abraham was the first Jew, and his decedents were Israelites.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Seede
...
Abraham was the first Jew. He fathered Judaism by being the first to reject idolatry and recognize and commune with "the one and only god". His covenant with "God" made him the first Jew and his decedents Jewish (Israelites).

At some point in history, there was a shift in the usage of the term "jew" to include "all Hebrews throughout the world, to distinguish them from the Gentile nations", rather than exclusively "a person belonging to the tribe of Judah" (the original meaning). It is here where your disagreement with Seede lies, he's still using the original meaning whereas you are using the later meaning as it was expanded to include more people. Quotations are from below.

Jew(ess) (Insight on the Scriptures)

[Of (Belonging to) Judah].

A person belonging to the tribe of Judah. The name is not used in the Bible account prior to the fall of the ten-tribe kingdom of Israel. In Hezekiah’s time, Isaiah used an adjectival form of the word, translated “the language of the Jews.” (Isa 36:11, 13) Most often, the southern kingdom was called Judah, and the people were called sons of Judah or the tribe of the sons of Judah. The first Bible writer to use the name Jews in direct reference to the people was the writer of the books of Kings, doubtless Jeremiah, whose prophetic service began in 647 B.C.E. (See 2Ki 16:6; 25:25.) After the exile the name was applied to any Israelites returning (Ezr 4:12; 6:7; Ne 1:2; 5:17) and, finally, to all Hebrews throughout the world, to distinguish them from the Gentile nations. (Es 3:6; 9:20) Gentile men who accepted the Jewish faith and became circumcised proselytes also declared themselves Jews. (Es 8:17) However, in the Hebrew Scriptures the expression “alien resident” may refer to one who had adopted the religion of the Jews (Jer 22:3), and even in the Christian Greek Scriptures such are distinguished at times by the term “proselytes.” (Ac 2:10; 6:5; 13:43) The term “Jewess” is used at Acts 24:24.

When Jesus was a young child, the astrologers came, inquiring: “Where is the one born king of the Jews?” (Mt 2:1, 2) On Jesus’ torture stake Pilate put the title “Jesus the Nazarene the King of the Jews.”​—Joh 19:19.

Figurative Use. The apostle Paul, in arguing that the Jews were mistaken in their pride of fleshly descent and in relying on the works of the Law to find favor with God, said: “For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision that which is on the outside upon the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit, and not by a written code. The praise of that one comes, not from men, but from God.” (Ro 2:28, 29) Here Paul, by a play on the meaning of the name Judah, shows that the real basis for praise from God is being a servant of God from the heart, by spirit. This argument parallels his reasoning in Romans chapter 4, that the true seed of Abraham are those with the faith of Abraham. He further points out that in the Christian congregation nationality is of no consequence, for “there is neither Jew nor Greek [Gentile].” (Ga 3:28) The resurrected Jesus Christ spoke to the congregation at Smyrna, comforting them with regard to the persecution they were receiving, to a great extent at the hands of the Jews, saying: “I know . . . the blasphemy by those who say they themselves are Jews, and yet they are not but are a synagogue of Satan.”​—Re 2:9.

I guess one could say that, in a way, you are both right, and both wrong in the way you choose to phrase or present the subject.

Judaism (Insight on the Scriptures)

The Jewish religious system. (Ga 1:13, 14) In the first century C.E., Judaism in its various forms was not based exclusively on the Hebrew Scriptures. One of the most prominent divisions of Judaism, that of the Sadducees, rejected the Scriptural teaching of the resurrection and denied the existence of angels. (Mr 12:18-27; Ac 23:8) Although the Pharisees, who formed yet another important branch of Judaism, sharply disagreed with the Sadducees on this (Ac 23:6-9), they were guilty of making God’s Word invalid because of their many unscriptural traditions. (Mt 15:1-11) Not the Law, which was actually a tutor leading to Christ (Ga 3:24), but these unscriptural traditions made it difficult for many to accept Christ. The Law itself was good and holy (Ro 7:12), but the traditions of men served to enslave the Jews. (Col 2:8) It was an ardent zeal for ‘the traditions of his fathers’ that caused Saul (Paul) to be a vicious persecutor of Christians.​—Ga 1:13, 14, 23; see PHARISEES; SADDUCEES.

Judah was Jacob’s fourth son by his wife Leah. The name Judah also refers to the tribe and later to the kingdom named after Judah. Described as the southern kingdom, Judah was made up of the Israelite tribes of Judah and Benjamin and included the priests and Levites.—Ge 29:35; 49:10; 1Ki 4:20; Heb 7:14.

Obviously, since Abraham was the grandfather of Jacob, he was not a "jew" in the sense of "a person belonging to the tribe of Judah." Since Judah hadn't even been born yet, let alone his tribe. He was a Hebrew however, so I guess one could say he was a "jew" if you use the later meaning for that term, it's just a little weird cause that meaning was only first used long after Abraham died, referring to Hebrews living then. "Hebrew" is much more appropiate for Abraham, even more appropiate than "Israelite" (for similar reasons as the one I just described for "Jew").

Hebrew (Glossary)

A designation first used for Abram (Abraham), distinguishing him from his Amorite neighbors. It was used thereafter to refer to Abraham’s descendants through his grandson Jacob as well as to their language. By the time of Jesus, the Hebrew language had come to include many Aramaic expressions and was the language spoken by Christ and his disciples.​—Ge 14:13; Ex 5:3; Ac 26:14.

Israel (Glossary)

The name God gave to Jacob. It came to refer to all his descendants collectively, at any one time. The descendants of Jacob’s 12 sons were often called the sons of Israel, the house of Israel, the people (men) of Israel, or the Israelites. Israel was also used as the name for the ten-tribe northern kingdom that broke away from the southern kingdom, and later as a term for anointed Christians, “the Israel of God.”​—Ga 6:16; Ge 32:28; 2Sa 7:23; Ro 9:6.

Abraham is not a descendant of Jacob. So "Hebrew" is more appropiate for Abraham, rather than Israelite, and the much later term "Jew" (first used in the Bible "in direct reference to the people" after 647 B.C.E, as explained before in more detail; remember for comparison, Abraham was born in 2018 B.C.E, so that's about 1400 years later).

a reply to: whereislogic


Jesus wasn't a Christian, either.
Like Auggie said, you're arguing "Semantics"...


To my original point, Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same god, the God of Abraham.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Nah. Nobody believes that, otherwise it wouldn't be considered apocrypha. The Apocalypse of Abraham was written sometime after the destruction of first temple, in 587 BCE, when Nebuchadnezzar attacked Jerusalem and took many Hebrew/Jewish/Israelite leaders as exiled captives in Babylon.

Could be i guess, if you say so. All i know is that i have it in book by Rabbinic Hebrews. Don't really know how you know when it was written when no one else knows.

My people were the people who followed Moses and a lot of them were converts who were circumcised. they followed Moses but were camped outside the tabernacle because they had no tribe to be under. So your answer would be any one who accepted Moses and Aaron as the priest hood. In fact some Hebrews had married Egyptians and that included Egyptians also. Don't understand where you get that Jews did all of this when they were nothing but another tribe under Moses and Aaron's authority.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

TextTo my original point, Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same god, the God of Abraham.

Anyone who does not accept that Jesus is the Son of God incarnated cannot claim the same God as a Christian.

a reply to: Seede

We're all "sons of god" incarnate.

Jesus was not his father.

“Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”