Less than half of Americans are attending church for the first time in American history.

Let's tell it like it is - Satan is the reason why there is less interest in religion these days. He's working overtime because he know's his time is running out.

originally posted by: TrulyColorBlind

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
What got me to leave was the asking for money almost every week. I get they have bills to pay, but enough is enough.

So, you quit church because they ask for money. Eh? I suppose you quit going to grocery stores because they ask for money, too. Eh?

Church as a business come across as the most un-Christ-like initiative.

People are starting to put all of these things together.

originally posted by: Atsbhct

originally posted by: TrulyColorBlind

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
What got me to leave was the asking for money almost every week. I get they have bills to pay, but enough is enough.

So, you quit church because they ask for money. Eh? I suppose you quit going to grocery stores because they ask for money, too. Eh?

Church as a business come across as the most un-Christ-like initiative.

People are starting to put all of these things together.

Some churches do act like a kind of country club. But others do things like food banks, and take care of orphans. And I hope you believe the pastor should have a living wage. A person devoted to answering calls day and night. That does take money,

a reply to: TrulyColorBlind

Norris City, Illinois.

I come through there all the time on my way to Kentucky !! Route 1 South, turn left on 13, go to the Shawneetown bridge and on into Union County. I used to work at the mines in Carmi, so I know a shortcut, but sometimes I just stick to Route 1.

a reply to: neutronflux

But this is where people are starting to get confused.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that plenty of religious institutions are serving their communities and their patrons, but lots and LOTS are caught up in profiting from religion.

Who does anyone believe? No one paid Jesus to preach to them. It's all there in the book. Wouldn't it make sense if preachers who truly believed in Jesus' message volunteered their Sundays to preach?

That would give a lot more creedence to churches in my eyes (and this is just me, and being transparent, I don't personally subscribe to organized religion).

If a preacher is a councillor, then yes, they certainly deserve a living wage, but preaching the gospel of any religion seems like something that should be done at no cost unless it becomes a convert-for-profit outlet.

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: TrulyColorBlind

Norris City, Illinois.

I come through there all the time on my way to Kentucky !! Route 1 South, turn left on 13, go to the Shawneetown bridge and on into Union County. I used to work at the mines in Carmi, so I know a shortcut, but sometimes I just stick to Route 1.

We're not far off of Route 1. Just turn at the reservoir and go into Norris City. When you get to the four-way stop, turn right and in two blocks you'll find our church. We welcome travellers! And anybody else, of course.

originally posted by: Atsbhct
a reply to: neutronflux
No one paid Jesus to preach to them. It's all there in the book.

Does it mention in "The Book" how much Jesus' church building overhead was? Of course it mentions it. Zero. Because he didn't have a church building. He doesn't expect churches to exist without funds to keep them going. What do you do for a living? Maybe that should be an unpaid effort as well? How would you survive without an income? Hoping people would feed and clothe you as you travel along? Good luck with that these days.

There will plenty of mosque for them to choose from eventually.

a reply to: TrulyColorBlind

That's debatable. I don't think Jesus wanted churches at all, what we hear of him in the bible was being infuriated about calling a place a house of god then treating it like a business place. He Taught to whomever cared to listen outside in plain view for all, including god to see. If I'm not forgetting, the church is a creation of Peter or Paul not Jesus.

a reply to: nemonimity

Exactly.

a reply to: Atsbhct

You

Who does anyone believe? No one paid Jesus to preach to them.

Are you saying Jesus wasn’t given room and board? By those he taught too?

Anyway...

Last week we focused on Mary, who poured a year’s wages on Jesus’s feet, and Judas, who saw Mary’s worshipful act as huge waste, because “he was a thief, and having charge of the moneybag he used to help himself to what was put into it” (John 12:6).

www.desiringgod.org...

I would say that Jesus ministry had a treasury. shrugs.

a reply to: nemonimity

Jesus had no problem with the temple and . He did not have any problem with tithing. Can you prove otherwise?

Yes, he did have great anger at turning God’s house into a place of business.

a reply to: neutronflux

Sure, but that's charity. The town where I live had a travelling preacher until the 80's and that's exactly what happened on Saturday/Sunday, people would hoise him and feed him and he came once a month. I have no idea how he made money

a reply to: Atsbhct

a reply to: nemonimity

If your worried about money, Jesus gave advice on that too.

21 Looking at the man, Jesus felt genuine love for him. “There is still one thing you haven’t done,” he told him. “Go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 At this the man’s face fell, and he went away sad, for he had many possessions.

www.biblegateway.com...

Can’t worry about what you don’t have. Problem solved in giving money to the church.

And how about where a person’s heart is...

21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.(A)

www.biblegateway.com...

Or

The Widow’s Offering(A)
41 Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put(B) and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. 42 But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents.

43 Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. 44 They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.”(C)

www.biblegateway.com...

If your worried about what Jesus actually taught.

I go to church occasionally, but do not belong to a church, I have not belonged to a church for around thirty five years. Most Christians are good people, some Churches go overboard though, I stay away from those kind, although I have gone to services and checked them out.

I do not know if I would be considered a Christian by some churchgoers, but I consider myself a Christian. The big reason that I don't think some Christians would consider me Christian is that I believe that Jesus was a Messiah, not really the only begotten son of god. That is the fundamental of many churches I have gone to so I guess I am not a Christian because I feel a Messiah is good enough. Same god, same beliefs other than that. So I am doomed to hell I guess, oh well, I will know more people there.

a reply to: neutronflux

I'm personally not worried about money, I just don't want to fund a middleman's life style if I can help it. I donate to causes and the poor myself.

originally posted by: nemonimity
a reply to: neutronflux

I'm personally not worried about money, I just don't want to fund a middleman's life style if I can help it. I donate to causes and the poor myself.

The preachers I know are not rich by any means. And there is nothing wrong compensation one that visits the sick, shut ins, and dying. So they have time to do such things. Just to name a few aspects of preaching.

If you want to know misery. Visit with those in a nursing home who’s families have abandoned them to rot in a nursing home.

a reply to: neutronflux

From my experience that's a small minority of clergy that get involved in those type of actions and it speaks to the persons character not there religiosity. My Grandmother was in an old folks home and I've seen first hand that sort of pain, but there are non religious groups and people that visit those people, their lack of care is cultural rather than religious. Depending on the type of family you live in and how your raised determines the type of person you are rather than adherence to a religion.

originally posted by: nemonimity
a reply to: neutronflux

From my experience that's a small minority of clergy that get involved in those type of actions and it speaks to the persons character not there religiosity. My Grandmother was in an old folks home and I've seen first hand that sort of pain, but there are non religious groups and people that visit those people, their lack of care is cultural rather than religious. Depending on the type of family you live in and how your raised determines the type of person you are rather than adherence to a religion.

Shrugs. I was in a group that would visit nursing homes. I think all my pastors have made time for visits.

Change can start with you.

a reply to: TrulyColorBlind

Ha, thanks, but that's a bit of a drive for me. Your church seems nice though.