Ecclesiastes (14) Remember to die

The book of Ecclesiastes tends to be neglected.
I must admit that I’ve been neglecting it myself.
So I come to this book with no preconceptions, except that a book found in the Old Testament must be intended to have a spiritual meaning. The people who compiled the canon were not in the business of collecting an anthology of “Hebrew literature.

The main theme of the early chapters has been that natural life and human life in the natural world do not go beyond a series of cycles of alternating events. Any apparent changes are discovered to be stages within these cycles, while the overall system itself does not change.

It is “vanity” for humans to look for anything beyond these things in the natural world, trying to transcend the system on their own. It is better, and the gift of God, for them to find their enjoyment in the world as it is, maintaining themselves in the way which God has provided.

Nevertheless, God has “put eternity into man’s mind”, in such a way that eternity cannot be known completely. Thus man is made aware of something greater than himself. “God has made it so, in order that men should fear before him.”

It seems that this nearly completes the central message of the book. Much of what follows looks like an assortment of “footnotes” under the general heading “other flaws noticeable in human life when God is disregarded”.

Ch7 vv1-12

These verses resemble a chapter in Proverbs. They are individual statements in poetic form, but they do not form “a poem” in the same way that the opening verses of ch2 form a poem. Yet we can still find themes in the sequence.

For several chapters, the writer has been promoting “enjoyment of life” as the gift which God has given to men. In this chapter, he seems to reverse himself and promote the necessity of “mourning”. Nevertheless, I suggest that these are two different ways of offering the same teaching. He means quiet enjoyment with reference to God, detaching ourselves from the over-active business of the world. I think we will find that “mourning” is a way of detaching ourselves from the over-active business of this world and referring ourselves to God.

V1 “A good name is better than ointment; and the day of death [better] than the day of birth.”
A tutor in college once asked me “Why do you keep joining sentences with ‘and’?”. It’s true that I disliked short, abrupt sentences, but the connection was usually more obvious than this one. The second leg of the verse is very Job-like, and it’s the kind of thing that gets this writer labelled “pessimistic”. It needs to be understood in the light of the following verses.

As for “good name”; in this context, the best “name” available is that of having true wisdom from God. The connection may be that true wisdom involves knowing the importance of the day of your death.

V2 “It is better to go to the house of mourning than to the house of feasting; for this is the end of all men, and the living will lay it to heart”.
That last phrase is the key to the whole theme. We must lay it to heart that our end lies with God, not in the frenzied world-centred enjoyment summed up in these verses by “feasting and laughter”. Going to the house of mourning is a way of focussing our thoughts on that point.

Tradition says that while a Roman general was enjoying his triumphal procession through the city, a slave would be standing behind him in the chariot murmuring “MEMENTO MORI”. Literally, “Remember to die”, but a more colloquial translation would be “Be mindful that you must die” or “Remember that you are mortal.” Going to a house of mourning has the same effect.

V3 “Sorrow is better than laughter, for by sadness of countenance the heart is made glad”.
The same idea. Being directed towards thoughts of God must be what “makes the heart glad”.

V4 “The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning, but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth”.
As in v2, bringing in the Proverbs distinction between the wise man who knows God and the fool who doesn’t.

V5 “It is better for a man to hear the rebuke of the wise than to hear the song of fools.”
Hearing the rebuke of the wise will bring awareness of our faults, turning “mourning” into “mourning our sins”. That is one of the reasons why we must allow the house of mourning to turn our thoughts towards God. Whereas the laughter of fools has no more value or utility than “the crackling of thorns under the pot.”

Now that the question has become “being wise”, the focus shifts into considering what may distract us from the pursuit of true wisdom. We have already discovered that getting absorbed in “feasting and laughter” is one of them. Impatience is another.

V7 Oppression (that is, being oppressive) and taking bribes have the effect of turning the wise man into a fool. This may happen because a man is too impatient to earn his wealth honestly.

V8 “Better is the end of a thing than the beginning; and the patient in spirit is better than the proud in spirit.”
Men may be willing to get things going, but the impatient man will not see them through to the end. He will not get the thing done. Notice that the impatient man is also labelled “proud”. The patient man is submitting himself to God, for the sake of the work which God has given him to do. The impatient man is self-oriented and has no sense of commitment when things get difficult.

The first half of the verse may be compared with “The day of death is better than the day of birth.” The day of our death should indicate that our work for God has been done. The day of our birth merely indicates the beginning of the task, which may be left uncompleted.

V9 “Be not quick to anger”. Here is a running Proverbs theme, that impatient anger is one of the marks of the fool..

V10 “Say not; Why were the former times better than these?”
This is another aspect of impatience; no satisfaction in the present form of the world which God has given us. Here it takes the form of finding an older form preferable. In previous chapters, he was rebuking the active toil of creating newer forms.

We might connect the two halves of the passage by understanding “impatience” as a way of disregarding God’s provision for us, and therefore another way of disregarding God.

Vv11-12, to conclude, tell us that wisdom- that is, understanding these things- is a source of strength to us. “Preserves the life of him who has it.”

“Memento Mori” is also the name of a novel by Muriel Spark. It centres upon a circle of people in their seventies, obviously approaching death, but obsessed with rivalries and inheritances. From time to time some of them receive mysterious phone-calls warning them to remember that they must die. Possibly the mysterious caller is Death himself. When I first read this book, in the school library, I was disappointed that the supernatural element was not more developed. To appreciate this book, you probably need to be in the same age-range as the protagonists. About the age when my parents used to read the local obituary pages and remark “He was young. He was only sixty-three.”

Was nice to read.

a reply to: DISRAELI

(Ecclesiastes)
my favorite book in the OT

(Romans)
my favorite book in the NT

My favorite book of all time...
The Holy Bible


Nice read

a reply to: DustybudzZ
Thank you. I have an existing series on Romans;
The Roman road to Christ

originally posted by: DISRAELI
As for “good name”; in this context, the best “name” available is that of having true wisdom from God.
We must lay it to heart that our end lies with God, not in the frenzied world-centred enjoyment summed up in these verses by “feasting and laughter”.
The same idea. Being directed towards thoughts of God must be what “makes the heart glad”.
As in v2, bringing in the Proverbs distinction between the wise man who knows God and the fool who doesn’t.
That is one of the reasons why we must allow the house of mourning to turn our thoughts towards God.
The patient man is submitting himself to God, for the sake of the work which God has given him to do.
The day of our death should indicate that our work for God has been done.
This is another aspect of impatience; no satisfaction in the present form of the world which God has given us. Here it takes the form of finding an older form preferable.
We might connect the two halves of the passage by understanding “impatience” as a way of disregarding God’s provision for us, and therefore another way of disregarding God.

This is a perfect example of absolutely wrong Hermeneutics. Typical of a JW is to come to the scriptures with a preconceived idea and then impose that Idea into a set of scriptures that is not even in the context.
1) the Writer has not mentioned GOD in any text until after verse 12.
2) to assume that the Writer is speaking of God to the people reading it is wrong. He is not giving anyone a Theology Lesson of any kind. He is not even giving lesson about LIFE AFTER DEATH.
3) you have imposed God into places where the writer has not imposed him.
4) you brought all this PRETEXT into the scriptures because you have a preconceived IDEA on what they "SHOULD MEAN" and not what do they plainly SAY.
5) Where in the context does the writer mention anything about TRUE WISDOM OF GOD?
6) Where in the context does the writer say OUR END LIES WITH GOD?
7) Where in the context does the writer say OUR THOUGHTS ARE TO BE DIRECTED TO GOD?
8) Where in the context does sit say a WISE MAN KNOWS GOD?
9) Where in the context does it say that we should TURN OUR THOUGHTS TOWARD GOD?
10) Where in the context does it say that a patient man IS SUBMITTING HIMSELF TO GOD for the sake of THE WORK GOD GAVE THEM TO DO?
11) Where in the context does it say when we DIE THAT OUR WORK FOR GOD IS DONE?
12) Where in the context does it say THAT NO SATISFACTION IS FOUND IN THE WORLD WHICH GOD GAVE US?
13) Where in the context does it say IMPATIENCE IS A WAY OF DISREGARDING GOD?
11 Times you have brought something into the text that is not there this is called DEDUCTIVE BIBLE STUDY, which simply means you brought in ideas into the text in order to create a doctrine or teaching the bible does not teach in the text. This is what JW's do, your work is shoddy and misinformed about a great many things. I am surprised you didn't mention that this is scriptures support for why JW's don't celebrate birthdays. Which it is and is used out of context to teach such.

You missed one spiritual lesson. What man's Death is far more important than his Birth? What man's Death should be Remembered far above his Birth? Yours? Mine? Whose? And Why is that mans death so much more important than his birth?

a reply to: ChesterJohn
You have called me a JW, and you have called me a Roman Catholic.
Neither is true, but you could at least make up your mind.

For the record, I was confirmed into the Church of England by the Bishop of Ely on 15/12/1965


If you think other lessons can be taught from this text then teach them, either in this thread or in a thread of your own.

I liked it. It gave me something to think about. It's a nice perspective to reflect upon. Thx for that OP.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Well, if not you sure have a lot in common with both groups and both groups are considered Christian Cults. the RC being the largest of the two.

Well confirmation of an Anglican (Church of England) is not surprising to me I know a few of them who are not saved either. And one of them is a practicing Homosexual.

You are not forthcoming anyway so I doubt we will truly know anything more than what we can observe which is you are a lost individual trying to teach a Book you have no connection to spiritually.

a reply to: ChesterJohn
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: DISRAELI

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: ChesterJohn

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: ChesterJohn

5) Where in the context does the writer mention anything about TRUE WISDOM OF GOD?
6) Where in the context does the writer say OUR END LIES WITH GOD?
7) Where in the context does the writer say OUR THOUGHTS ARE TO BE DIRECTED TO GOD?
8) Where in the context doe sit say a WISE MAN KNOWS GOD?
9) Where in the context does it say that we should TURN OUR THOUGHTS TOWARD GOD?
10) Where in the context does it say that a patient man IS SUBMITTING HIMSELF TO GOD for the sake of THE WORK GOD GAVE THEM TO DO?
11) Where in the context does it say when we DIE THAT OUR WORK FOR GOD IS DONE?

You have to understand the context first of all
and read the complete book
The answers to this line of questions is...
In the end of the book

12) Where in the context does it say THAT NO SATISFACTION IS FOUND IN THE WORLD WHICH GOD GAVE US?

This is the entire theme of the book
That everything under the sun
(without GOD) is meaningless and without purpose & nothing new

You missed one spiritual lesson. What mans Death is far more importance than his Birth? What man's Death should be Remembered far above his Birth? The Death of Jesus Christ, because Jesus took upon himself our sin debt in his own body and bear it to the cross unto DEATH, then also went to hell for us. But being without sin himself he went to paradise an done the third day rose from the dead to give us everlasting life.

The book of Ecclesiastes is a complex reflection on life itself from a worldly viewpoint in the mind of the wisest man who ever lived and who ever will live (King Solomon) within the OT so Jesus was not on the scene at that time so during that time GOD'S people would have still been under the old covenant

King Solomon authored 3 OT biblical books
Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and Song's of Solomon I would suggest reading all 3
GOD came to King Solomon in a dream/vision and told him he could ask for anything he wanted and it would be granted to him so Solomon asked for wisdom so he could always do what's right in GOD'S eyes and GOD was so pleased with his request he made him the wisest of all who ever lived and ever would live
So no other man has ever been wiser then he.
GOD also gave him everything he didn't ask for great wealth, fame etc.
But even tho King Solomon had great wisdom he still found it difficult just like his father King David to fully obey GOD and still fell into the snare because even the wisest of men can be a fool for Love

But as for Ecclesiastes King Solomon simply paint's a beautiful masterpiece of exactly what life is without GOD and at the end concludes how it should be with GOD

a reply to: DISRAELI
These are somethings we know of you.
1) you have plagiarized other men's work without giving them credit in many of your teaching. You admitted such a couple of your Eccl threads back.
2) worldly history is far more important to you in your lesson's that spiritual truth.
3) You Allegorize scripture where there is no allegorization.
4) You ADD to scripture subjects that are not in the context see above aforementioned remarks on pretexting the scriptures in ECCL 7:1-12. www.abovetopsecret.com...
5) You are misleading people into believing you are some sort of scholar. Having degree or an ordination does not make you called of God to teach his word. I too am an ordained minister, I too have a Doctorate and a Graduate degree, and multiple collegent diplomas.

But above all I am called of God to preach and to teach and have done so in numerous denominational and non-denominational churches both online and in person. I also work full time at a major college.

a reply to: ChesterJohn
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: DISRAELI

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: ChesterJohn
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: DISRAELI
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: ChesterJohn
www.abovetopsecret.com...

When will Disraeli answer any of the questions asked above? www.abovetopsecret.com... He wont because he can't.