How did the Fall affect all of us, instead of only 'Adam and Eve'...?

Now I don't believe that Adam & Eve were necessarily the very first humans who were self-aware, sentient as it were (& I know I'll get flamed for even bringing it up), but I wanted to share a tidbit I learned a while ago, but had quite forgotten about until reading a book recently which challenges some of the traditions we're raised with, with reference to our cultural Christian theology. But I do believe that they were the first imbued with kingship, in the lineage which ultimately would bring Christ into the world. And yes, it's a belief, I have no evidence for it, though it feels intuitively correct, when the overall picture is weighed up. And the answer to the question I'm pondering in this thread might help to further inform our thoughts on the first of Humanity.

The Fall of Man was said to be the event which occurred when Adam & Eve believed in the words of an usurper, disbelieved God, and rebelled against Him in choosing to pursue a different type of wisdom, which I suppose must mean 'the occult', with the potential input of 'not good' sources. I may be wrong on that point, but again it seems to feel right in the broad context. But the Fall of Man, in the context of the redeeming work of Christ, offers up a question that skeptics, mockers & angry people have always responded with when presented with the message of the gospel, in that Christ died & rose again to redeem us from the curse of the Fall - "Why is it said that I am guilty? I did nothing! I wasn't there at the beginning. Why do we all have to pay for something that presumably only Adam & Eve did?"

And in one regard, the question can seem quite reasonable. How can we accept that we are guilty, in need of redemption, despite not having made a decision to rebel? But wait, perhaps in some mystic way, we did choose to rebel. Surely not! But wait still, for there is a legend which Rabbinical sources have suggested had come about through the wisdom tradition to which they belong, in which it is said that when Adam chose to rebel against the Sovereign LORD, thereafter at the time he died, his soul descended into darkness, and was shattered into billions upon billions of pieces, each one of which became the birthing of a new human soul, which would swim up into the world of Man each time human men & women procreated.

I have heard it said, though I can't recall from where, that Adam 'himself' was redeemed from the sin of rebellion - yet in the sense of 'from whence we come', we are coming up from darkness into the light of the day, here in the world, under the Sun, knowing love & loss, the blossom of Spring, the claws of Winter.. And each one of us, through our connection to the first sin, the first time knowledge turned into rebellion amongst the Human race, has a connection to that collective unconscious, the sense of paradise lost dwelling deeply in our memories of a golden age, when the world was young. Our souls partook in the Fall, because we are like echoes of that first rebellion, and each one of us knows exactly what it is to know our human weakness, our propensity for doing wrong when we know by conscience what is right. We are caught in the gravity well of the cataclysmic shattering of Adam's soul.. I don't call it the abyss, though perhaps there is some connection, to that place that demons fear, I really wouldn't want to speculate too far down that line of enquiry.. It's that sort of thing of which it is perhaps not lawful for humans to speak, as St Paul has suggested, some wisdom, some knowledge, is not for the here & now. (Or maybe, the there & then).

So there you are, something to ponder, to consider, as having all of us equally bound as one race, from one seed, one soul - brothers and sisters, from darkness, into light, from chaos, into salvation. Godspeed.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Why do we all have to pay for something that presumably only Adam & Eve did?"

We don't... neither did adam and eve...

Fables from ages past...

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

The seasons of humankind.

a reply to: Akragon

Or memories of some event that we can no longer fully recall?

I'm willing to be wrong, but I like thinking outside the box on issues which have been contentious.. Primarily because people still get angry about them, I always look to understand where some alternate thought could bridge the gap..

Sins of the Father?

Sergio RodriQuez created a mind blowing sermon jam on this subject... This is one of the most powerful messages I have ever heard from Dan Mohler. He combined it with clips from David Helling's short film "The Fall of Man". (@ 5 min.)

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment
Everything is by God's design. The "Fall" included.

How could we know what was lost from those Days, if we forgot and live by our ways?

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

[...]

But wait still, for there is a legend which Rabbinical sources have suggested had come about through the wisdom tradition to which they belong, in which it is said that when Adam chose to rebel against the Sovereign LORD, thereafter at the time he died, his soul descended into darkness, and was shattered into billions upon billions of pieces, each one of which became the birthing of a new human soul, which would swim up into the world of Man each time human men & women procreated.

It stands to reason that a being gets punished when he/she personally falls (sins) and I think those rabbinical sources got it very wrong. That Adam's soul shattered in many pieces, which became part of our human souls, doesn't sound very sensible. By the way I think that when Adam and Eve came on this Earth, this place was already well populated and they helped immensely the humanity.

In brief, people themselves individually are guilty of the big sin of rebelling against God long long ago (as angels), they themselves are guilty of their fall, *nobody* else, not even Adam and Eve. That's why God is punishing them (people) even after that long time. Also when humans came into these physical universes, God gave them enough time to repent and when that didn't happen, their arduous journey here became longer and longer.

a reply to: carewemust

How, do we not have freewill, we are all just robots?
What’s the point then

I place Calvinists just above Jw,.org and or mormons

originally posted by: carewemust
Everything is by God's design. The "Fall" included.

Does that include the abuse of children as well? Your god endorses that, does he?

a reply to: noonebutme

The Devil never imposed his actions unto anyone.

He only ever showed other paths, options.

Man is to blame for his own descent into corruption.

a reply to: iammrhappy86

Ah ok. So anything good is the result of god. Anything bad, that’s our fault.

Yup makes sense....O_o

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

We're not affected until we sin. We also lived up to almost 1,000 years before God wiped most of civilization out with the Great Flood. Then the life span went from nearly 1,000 years to about 120 years. Imagine how much history we'd really know if people could still live that long.

I love the reply GOD planed to have Humans Fall then blame the devil lol .

Who made the devil who rebelled made the angle's who followed the devil ?
Heck who PUT the TREE in the Garden ?

and Finly who was it That KILLEDE people ?

The devil did NON of thous things and far as I know he never killed anyone .

God is his own worst enemy .

Maybe the whole kicking Adam an Eve out of paradise was Gods way off cutting us the umbilical cord, or the cradle of civilization. If the Serpent hadn't tricked Eve into eating the fruit, we might as well Apes lounging around naked, with a leaf on our crotches in Paradise without a care.

Almost like a 30 or 40 old still living at there parents, while not having any form of employment.

Besides, wasnt the punishment that Abel will be toiling the rest of days an Eve went through the joys(not in those words) of childbirth which is explained in the bible as a form of punishment.

After that, Adama a man...manly, man, man.

originally posted by: midnightstar
I love the reply GOD planed to have Humans Fall then blame the devil lol .

Who made the devil who rebelled made the angle's who followed the devil ?
Heck who PUT the TREE in the Garden ?

and Finly who was it That KILLEDE people ?

The devil did NON of thous things and far as I know he never killed anyone .

God is his own worst enemy .

a reply to: midnightstar

About that source... (Gnosticism)

Put the Koo-Laid DOWN... Not only is it a trap, it's also a dead end just like all other religions and a complete waste of time. You WILL eventually find this to be true.

originally posted by: adjensen
In a very real way, Gnostic Christianity was the Scientology of the Second Century.

The Early Church father, Irenaeus, who wrote a five volume book on the subject called “Against Heresies”, believed that all heresies were rooted in Gnosticism, and thus any heretic was deemed a Gnostic. Most Gnostics hold to the belief in two deities, one who is perfectly good and the other who is perfectly evil. They taught that the evil god was the creator of the world and all matter, and was also the god of the Jews. In fact, they viewed the serpent in Eden as a good character who tried to help Adam and Eve find knowledge and escape the created world. These christian gnostics believed in Jesus (Yeshua), but taught that He was the son of the good deity, and he was sent to oppose the evil Creator God of the Old Testament.

unlearnthelies.com...

Satanic practices throughout the world can be traced in an unbroken line directly back to Gnosticism...

Curse of Canaan

originally posted by: stupid girl
Most of the Apostlic letters that make up the last half of the New Testament were written with the intent to refute the increasing heresies of Gnosticism. So in essence, Gnostic beliefs are based on the opposite of what Jesus instructed those who follow Him to do. Gnostic beliefs go against the Truths revealed to us by Christ Himself through His Apostles.

Simon Magus was the founder of the Gnostic church and was the direct competitor with Christianity for the hearts and minds of the Greco Roman world. He was so powerful in fact, that he is known by many different names in the Bible.

The circles that Magus worked in were the Illuminati of his time. Magus could, levitate items on command, speak with spirits, summon demons and place them into statues making the statues walk and talk, fly, and even raise the dead.

His religion, the Gnostic religion, was the sect that preceded Christianity in the Diaspora. The current Illuminati religion (freemasonry) is based on Gnosticism and the ancient Babylonian mysticism (Satanism?) that he incorporated into his version of Judaism that he was selling (quite literally) to the masses of the Greco-Roman world.

Simon Magus -- The lluminati's Jesus?

Adam & Eve likely lived many hundreds of years before they caved to temptation ... humans/ Adamic Mankind (created just for the Garden-of-Eden testing facility) probably yearned to eat from the 'Tree-of-Knowledge' for many Years
(but were Afraid to do so)

but finally, curiosity drove them to lie and cheat and try to sneak behind the Commander's back & gain secret knowledge and sucessfully hide/outsmart the high commander (god)


How are modern humans thus affected? ---> the Son-of-Man will invade Earth @ his 2nd coming and Rule for 1,000 years with an Iron Rod over humans

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment
I just posted this interview on another thread and then saw this thread......it fits nicely.
The human lived with just instinct prior to language and intellect......when eating from the tree of knowledge they were banished from paradise.
It's what makes us sinners.... divided into two.....the intellect knows what is good and what is bad and punishes the instinctual part. There is no harmony within.
That's the human condition.