Absolute Proof the Earth is Round NOT Flat!

a reply to: cooperton

Yes, there is evidence

spaceplace.nasa.gov...

Barnard's Star has been photographed changing position.

a reply to: cooperton

Yes there are actual historic documents it all starts in 190 BC, when the ancient Greek astronomer Hipparchus first created a catalog of the 850 brightest stars in the sky and their position. His student Ptolemy followed up with his own observations of the night sky, creating his important document: the Almagest.He made charts and tables that were incredibly accurate, measuring the brightness and location of more than 1,000 stars. then in the late 1500s we get Tycho Brahe his charts were so acurate that he measured the positions of stars to within 15 to 35 arcseconds of accuracy. Just for comparison, a human hair, held 10 meters away is an arcsecond wide. then of course we have many astronomers like Friedrich Bessel i can keep going but yes we have star charts created and yes you can see they moved over time.

originally posted by: OneBigMonkeyToo
a reply to: cooperton

Yes, there is evidence

spaceplace.nasa.gov...

Barnard's Star has been photographed changing position.

Must be the second hand 🤣

originally posted by: dragonridr
Well no it hasnt in fact during the building of the great pyramid it would have been a star called Thuban. To ancient egyptians there north star was diferent from ours. Please give me an example of a flat earth model that explains how the stars rotate counterclockwise above the equator, and clockwise below the equator. You cant say this doesnt happen we have video on a round earth its easy to explain on a flat earth id say its impossible to explain.

PS havnt you given up yet? Even you must see a round earth explains all this stuff that flat earth cant. Here is a tough one a brit is complaining she cant see the center of the milky way. Weird on a flat earth she should see it. Whats happening?

First of all, the North Star has NEVER changed position, and it's been proven over thousands of years now, and forever in the future, as well.

As for your claim that stars rotate differently in the south, than in the north, this video proves you wrong....

ifers.123.st...

"...the Earth is an extended flat plane and all the stars and other celestial bodies rotate East to West around Polaris, the only non-moving star in the sky situated perfectly in line directly above the North Pole"


Another ball-Earth lie exposed.

a reply to: turbonium1

First yes they have I suggest you look at a star called Thuban. Now thank you that video had me laughing so hard. Especially I love the sky we cant see just looks like the light just stops i guess it gets tired and has to take a break. And I love the fact he used google earth and you could see it was spinning in the other direction. he disproved his own explanation now that's funny. Go look at the videos I posted you can see the southern and northern hemisphere with actual video instead of google earth. Oh, and why does the horizon suddenly go all crazy on his model? It appears to just suddenly decide to shoot up into the sky very odd thing to do maybe it's caused by a lack of gravity in the model lol. I think the only thing the video got right was the name of the planet god his hard to type when your laughing

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: turbonium1

First yes they have I suggest you look at a star called Thuban. Now thank you that video had me laughing so hard. Especially I love the sky we cant see just looks like the light just stops i guess it gets tired and has to take a break. And I love the fact he used google earth and you could see it was spinning in the other direction. he disproved his own explanation now that's funny. Go look at the videos I posted you can see the southern and northern hemisphere with actual video instead of google earth. Oh, and why does the horizon suddenly go all crazy on his model? It appears to just suddenly decide to shoot up into the sky very odd thing to do maybe it's caused by a lack of gravity in the model lol. I think the only thing the video got right was the name of the planet god his hard to type when your laughing

Your argument is that Earth is a ball flying through endless space, so you wouldn't even HAVE any of the same stars above Earth anymore. What are you possibly able to argue about them, for a flying ball Earth, and flying stars, trillions of miles away, all moving at random, for thousands of years, yet they all have remained in their exact positions above Earth......

This surely proves that the Earth is a flying ball in an endless universe!! - not

a reply to: turbonium1


We have documented evidence showing stars move so your making claims that are not true. The universe everything is in motion i suggest maybe to start your education by rereading what has been posted


www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: turbonium1


We have documented evidence showing stars move so your making claims that are not true. The universe everything is in motion i suggest maybe to start your education by rereading what has been posted


www.abovetopsecret.com...

They are proven liars, without any evidence for their claims, and have made up many lies about the stars, of course.

They also keep the truth from us, like with Saturn's movements, for example. Nobody can look at videos of Saturn, at close up, and not see it spinning and wobbling constantly. Those who say it is caused by the atmosphere, cannot explain why all the astronomers in history, who would have seen the same thing, always held it a secret from us. If they thought it was caused by the atmosphere, or it was possibly the cause, they would have NO reason not to mention it, what caused it, or possibly caused it, or if they have no idea why it appears to spin and wobble constantly....

The point is that all the astronomers, in history, never ONCE mentioned it, which means they kept it a secret, because it WAS the truth, that Saturn spins and wobbles constantly, and if they DID mention it, even with an excuse for it, as an effect of atmosphere, people may doubt it, question it, and - for sure - everyone would want to SEE it.

They have always kept this secret from us, because they had lied about most things in 'space'. Planets are slowly rotating objects in 'space', they lied, and hid the truth about Saturn from us, for that very reason. Liars keep the truth hidden from us, and that's what they all did.

a reply to: turbonium1

Of course they are its like arguing with a 3 year old. Did you put your fingers in your ears as well? There is documented proof we have star charts made for 1000s of years I didnt even go into chinese records. You denying they exist doesnt make it reality.

As for Keeping things from you yes it was a masive conspiracy involving thousands of scientists and philosophers throughout history. You ever heard of occoms razor if your belief mens you have to throw out 1000s of years of advancement your ideas are probably wrong. Science doesnt care what you believe what we care about is what we can observe. In your case your beliefs directly contradict what we observe. These means your conclusions must be wrong and you might want to reevaluate your beliefs.


And finally your saturn thing made no sense im sure that sounded better in your head or at least I hope so.

a reply to: OneBigMonkeyToo

So the evidence for stars moving is that star charts over history are not precisely the same? Of course they weren't, it's not like they were using CNC machines to plot the stars. There is human error. The fact is, the constellations orbit so predictably that the Mayans knew 2000+ year long cycles, and that insists that the stars in the sky are not changing their relative position to eachother in the night sky.

Did OP get banned for this thread?

a reply to: cooperton

So the evidence for stars moving is that star charts over history are not precisely the same?

That, and the fact that the change in position is consistent over time. The term is proper motion. Different stars display proper motion in different directions and rates.
csep10.phys.utk.edu...

originally posted by: cooperton
a reply to: OneBigMonkeyToo

So the evidence for stars moving is that star charts over history are not precisely the same? Of course they weren't, it's not like they were using CNC machines to plot the stars. There is human error. The fact is, the constellations orbit so predictably that the Mayans knew 2000+ year long cycles, and that insists that the stars in the sky are not changing their relative position to eachother in the night sky.

I let you get away with this earlier only because i didnt want to argue some point off a crackpot website. However what 2000 year cycle are you talking about?? The Mayans really didnt track the stars they were concerned with the sun the moon and the planets. Their favorite being venus this is what there celestrial observations were about. in fact if they used venus thier calendar had 547 days.

So you are attempting to disprove actual star charts with some made up cycle you heard.

originally posted by: Jay Electronica
Did OP get banned for this thread?

Nope. They weren't very active in the thread in their last couple of weeks here.
He was kinda surprised that this thread was still going, in his last comments.

Hope you're doing alright and keeping warm Muzz, wherever you are.

originally posted by: dragonridr
As for Keeping things from you yes it was a masive conspiracy involving thousands of scientists and philosophers throughout history. You ever heard of occoms razor if your belief mens you have to throw out 1000s of years of advancement your ideas are probably wrong.

By your argument, a conspiracy must have a small number of people involved, or know about it, or it CANNOT be a conspiracy!

What would you suggest is the maximum number of people that are possible for a conspiracy? 30? 50? 100? Would more than 100 people mean it cannot be a conspiracy?

There have already BEEN conspiracies involving thousands of people, which worked - the Manhattan Project, for one.
It's regarded as a secret project, not a conspiracy, but they both are conspiracies, and both could be called 'secret projects', as well!

The public had no idea about the Manhattan Project, but it involved thousands of people, who kept it secret, even from their families.

There have been other large conspiracies, as well, but I don't need more than one example to prove you are wrong, and now you know it.


'Occam's Razor' is logical, but not a strict rule, to prove anything. Nice try, though.

originally posted by: dragonridr
Science doesnt care what you believe what we care about is what we can observe.

Absolutely correct - science should ALWAYS be honest, transparent, and truthful, in everything they do, for everything they OBSERVE. If you know that, then why wouldn't you get my point here? I've shown you that conspiracies involving thousands of people have worked in the past, so you cannot use that as an excuse for it, that's for sure.

All that's left is what you have said about science - that it only cares about what we can observe.

What do you think I've been doing all along now? I've observed the clips of Saturn spinning and wobbling constantly, in dozens of different videos, public, or government, or corporate - and all show Saturn spinning and wobbling, with varying degrees of quality footage, of course.

That's exactly what these astronomers would have seen for over a century by now, that's why I sifted through all sorts of documents, from centuries ago, to present day, to see what the 'experts' mentioned about Saturn's spin/wobble motions, and how they explained it.....

That's when I found out they have NEVER mentioned it, just as I suspected before I found out for sure. Why did I think they'd never mentioned it before?

Very simple - newspapers in the early 1900's would've shown something like this..

SATURN APPEARS TO SPIN AND WOBBLE CONSTANTLY, EXPERTS SUGGEST IT"S AN ATMOSPHERIC EFFECT!

Astronomers confirm there is, or appears to be, a spinning, wobbling object, high above Earth, that was known, at least until now, as the planet Saturn. Astronomers do NOT yet know - as yet - if Saturn itself is actually spinning and wobbling, or that it is all an effect(s) of atmosphere, or due to some other external cause. But, they hope, in future, to know what Saturn is doing, or appears to be doing. For now, they believe it is most likely due to an atmospheric effect, or effects, although it is yet to be confirmed'

Of course, it wouldn't have to make headline news, but it certainly IS news, and would DEFINITELY be mentioned, by all the astronomers, our 'experts', those you believe would care so much about their observations, and report their observations in detail, all the time.

And indeed, they have many, many reports of their observations, of many stars, of most planets, by that time, and Saturn is one of them. Of course, it doesn't matter, we know that thousands of reports on Saturn have been done, at this point, so there's no debate about a lack of documentation on Saturn, about its rings, it's color(s), how long it takes Saturn to...ahem...rotate... one time - about 10 1/2 hours, they claim....

They describe it's rings over and over again, in detail. They describe what color(s) Saturn is, on top, and on bottom, being different colors, or shades, and how they change back to their original color later on each year. They make new observations of the rings over the years, and how they differ from earlier observations.

Almost all their reports describe how Saturn looks, it's colors, that change twice a year, it's rings, the spaces in between each ring, and so much more.....They describe all of those features, as being Saturn's features, they NEVER describe these features as being any 'effects' of the atmosphere.

Of course, everyone, including astronomers, will encounter problems viewing stars and planets, sometimes, and may be unable to view anything at all, some nights. THAT is where they mention effects of the atmosphere, for viewing stars and planets.

They describe those effects of the atmosphere, if they occur during their observations. It blurs, obscures, their observations of stars and planets, and they mention it in those reports, of course.


I'm showing you everything they do, everything they observe, every visual problem, what it was, such as atmospheric effects, etc. - was carefully documented, all the time, because - of course - that's what scientists do, they report everything they observe, or find, etc.

Except - at least - for one, very glaring omission, which they have NEVER mentioned, in any report, to this very day.

They are not small, insignificant features, that they might all have overlooked, many thousands of times! In fact, those are among the most prominent, obvious features of Saturn. Everyone of us notices those movements, it is a constant, eternal movement.


So why would they hide that from us, over the centuries? It was the truth, about Saturn, which could never be mentioned at all. A secret so powerful, it's been kept secret for centuries, now. It took all that time, before the public could see what Saturn looked like, and found out, that it wasn't at all like they said it was.

They knew they could keep this a secret from us, since nobody else had such telescopes, except astronomers. So all they had to do, was to make sure that nobody else was ever allowed to see through their scopes.

And that's why nobody ever knew about Saturn, spinning and wobbling constantly, except for your great liars, of astronomy, until recently.


Every other lie will inevitably be found out, some day..... this one is just the start.

Read this entire thread twice now, watched a load of its vids and looked and listened to both sides.

My conclusion:

Is lol wtf? 😂

🌍 = correct

Some compelling arguments maybe, but ZERO proof otherwise.

originally posted by: turbonium1

What do you think I've been doing all along now?

Spamming multiple threads with unsupported badly argued garbage?

I've observed the clips of Saturn spinning and wobbling constantly, in dozens of different videos, public, or government, or corporate - and all show Saturn spinning and wobbling, with varying degrees of quality footage, of course.

But you haven't observed it yourself.

That's exactly what these astronomers would have seen for over a century by now, that's why I sifted through all sorts of documents, from centuries ago, to present day, to see what the 'experts' mentioned about Saturn's spin/wobble motions, and how they explained it.....

I put it to you that you have sifted through precisely nothing.

That's when I found out they have NEVER mentioned it, just as I suspected before I found out for sure. Why did I think they'd never mentioned it before?

Because it is an illusion caused by atmpsheric interference.

Very simple - newspapers in the early 1900's would've shown something like this..

SATURN APPEARS TO SPIN AND WOBBLE CONSTANTLY, EXPERTS SUGGEST IT"S AN ATMOSPHERIC EFFECT!

Astronomers confirm there is, or appears to be, a spinning, wobbling object, high above Earth, that was known, at least until now, as the planet Saturn. Astronomers do NOT yet know - as yet - if Saturn itself is actually spinning and wobbling, or that it is all an effect(s) of atmosphere, or due to some other external cause. But, they hope, in future, to know what Saturn is doing, or appears to be doing. For now, they believe it is most likely due to an atmospheric effect, or effects, although it is yet to be confirmed'

Strawman nonsense. Don't invent a news story that didn't happen as some sort of proof.

Of course, it wouldn't have to make headline news, but it certainly IS news, and would DEFINITELY be mentioned, by all the astronomers, our 'experts', those you believe would care so much about their observations, and report their observations in detail, all the time.

They do. You've been given lots of examples of it by people who have actually sifted through the documents, including where astronomers have pointed out the poor quality atmospheric conditionos causing problems with their observations.

And indeed, they have many, many reports of their observations, of many stars, of most planets, by that time, and Saturn is one of them. Of course, it doesn't matter, we know that thousands of reports on Saturn have been done, at this point, so there's no debate about a lack of documentation on Saturn, about its rings, it's color(s), how long it takes Saturn to...ahem...rotate... one time - about 10 1/2 hours, they claim....

They describe it's rings over and over again, in detail. They describe what color(s) Saturn is, on top, and on bottom, being different colors, or shades, and how they change back to their original color later on each year. They make new observations of the rings over the years, and how they differ from earlier observations.

Almost all their reports describe how Saturn looks, it's colors, that change twice a year, it's rings, the spaces in between each ring, and so much more.....They describe all of those features, as being Saturn's features, they NEVER describe these features as being any 'effects' of the atmosphere.

Because they aren't. What they don't do is attribute the illusion of what our atmosphere does to their telescope viewing to the thing they are observing. Your failure to think in 3 dimensions is the problem here.

Of course, everyone, including astronomers, will encounter problems viewing stars and planets, sometimes, and may be unable to view anything at all, some nights. THAT is where they mention effects of the atmosphere, for viewing stars and planets.

They describe those effects of the atmosphere, if they occur during their observations. It blurs, obscures, their observations of stars and planets, and they mention it in those reports, of course.

Including when they look at Saturn, which you've been shown numerous times.

I'm showing you everything they do, everything they observe, every visual problem, what it was, such as atmospheric effects, etc. - was carefully documented, all the time, because - of course - that's what scientists do, they report everything they observe, or find, etc.

Except - at least - for one, very glaring omission, which they have NEVER mentioned, in any report, to this very day.

You have shown precisely nothing. You have posted a few videos, made a bogus claim, then at back and handwaved away every refutation of your ridiculous nonsense. You have provided no evidence to support your idea other than "it must be lile this and they are hiding it". You are literally the only person spouting this BS. There's a reason for that.

They are not small, insignificant features, that they might all have overlooked, many thousands of times! In fact, those are among the most prominent, obvious features of Saturn. Everyone of us notices those movements, it is a constant, eternal movement.


So why would they hide that from us, over the centuries? It was the truth, about Saturn, which could never be mentioned at all. A secret so powerful, it's been kept secret for centuries, now. It took all that time, before the public could see what Saturn looked like, and found out, that it wasn't at all like they said it was.

They knew they could keep this a secret from us, since nobody else had such telescopes, except astronomers. So all they had to do, was to make sure that nobody else was ever allowed to see through their scopes.

And that's why nobody ever knew about Saturn, spinning and wobbling constantly, except for your great liars, of astronomy, until recently.


Every other lie will inevitably be found out, some day..... this one is just the start.

They don't mention it because ti doesn't happen. That's all there is to it. It has never been hidden, anyone can get a telescope, anyone can buy a camera, anyone can use their eyes and brain to interpret what they see through them. Except one person.

a reply to: turbonium1

So thats what you meant by saturn. First let me say atmosperic disturbances effect all ground based observations. Its even why stars appear to twinkle. The reason it was nt mentioned which isnt true by the way even isaac newton said it was something we wouldnt be able to correct. To Isaac Newton the problem was clear, and in 1704 he realized the effects of atmospheric turbulence on image formation. Just as heat waves shimmering above a hot patch of ground can distort our view, the image of a distant object formed by a telescope is distorted by the temperature variations in the intervening atmosphere. But to most early astonomers they didnt believe it could be corrected and was just part of astronomy. He was actually wrong on this we indeed do correct for it now. Ever seen pictures of an observatory shining a laser into the sky? They do this so they can determine the amount of distortion in the atmosphere and correct for it. This is called adaptive optics

www.sciencedirect.com...

So once again you now have evidence your conclusions were wrong does that change anything for you?

originally posted by: dragonridr

I let you get away with this earlier only because i didnt want to argue some point off a crackpot website. However what 2000 year cycle are you talking about??

It's called the precession of the equinox. It goes through 12 smaller cycles of about 2,160 years to make one larger cycle of 25,920 years. The ancients used it to tell time over millenia. The Age of aquarius, the Age of pisces, the age of taurus, etc are all references to these 2,160 year time slots.

originally posted by: Phage
That, and the fact that the change in position is consistent over time. The term is proper motion. Different stars display proper motion in different directions and rates.
csep10.phys.utk.edu...

Funny how the link would call the movement of the night sky an 'illusion'. It's like they're so enamored with an unbased theory that they can't tell what's right in front of their eyes. Since these stars maintain their proper motion, we can not assume the universe is random or chaotic. As Onebigmonkey said on the last page, he couldn't think of anyone who would call it chaotic. It is because it is ordered clockwork

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: dragonridr

I let you get away with this earlier only because i didnt want to argue some point off a crackpot website. However what 2000 year cycle are you talking about??

It's called the precession of the equinox. It goes through 12 smaller cycles of about 2,160 years to make one larger cycle of 25,920 years. The ancients used it to tell time over millenia. The Age of aquarius, the Age of pisces, the age of taurus, etc are all references to these 2,160 year time slots.

originally posted by: Phage
That, and the fact that the change in position is consistent over time. The term is proper motion. Different stars display proper motion in different directions and rates.
csep10.phys.utk.edu...

Funny how the link would call the movement of the night sky an 'illusion'. It's like they're so enamored with an unbased theory that they can't tell what's right in front of their eyes. Since these stars maintain their proper motion, we can not assume the universe is random or chaotic. As Onebigmonkey said on the last page, he couldn't think of anyone who would call it chaotic. It is because it is ordered clockwork

Theres no smaller cycles as i suspected you made it up. Lets talk about mayan cycles they left us information you could have verified this.

The Mayan long count is based on large figures ascribed to astronomical observations. In this we find that 1 Tun = 360 days, 1 Katun = 7,200 days and 15 Katuns = 2,160,000 days. The great cycle was believed to last for 13 baktuns 1,872,000 days. As i stated before they were not big on observing stars this is why i suspected you lied. They watched the sun the moon and the planets and even created cycles for these planets.


I think your very confused about what precession of the stars actually is. The constellation that the sun rises into on the spring equinox changes over a very slow period of time. It’s due to a very gradual shift in the earth’s position relative to the stars.The rate of precession of the earth equals 1 degree every 72 years. The long cycle on this is 25920 years where the stars end up back where they started but it isnt constant so we say it will be between 25,700 to 25,800 years to complete one full precession of the equinox. By the way this is speeding up according to our calculations it isnt constant.

Now what did the mayans know well they knew the spring and winter equanox and could predict them fairly acurately. and indeed marked them on there calendar which typically lasted about 1 katun. This is just short of a 20 year cycle of their standard calendars. You were lied to about there calendar though that does not surprise me a lot of stuff was made up in 2000 and 2012 about the mayan calendar.