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Whos on Whos side

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posted on Mar, 15 2005 @ 07:03 PM
If The US defends Taiwan and US and China Get into a Battle who do you think would be on the US side and who do you think would be on China's side

Just Curious being the fact the President Bush has vowed to Defend Taiwan against any Chinese attack

posted on Mar, 15 2005 @ 07:08 PM
Like the article with Bush saying that, as I have several saying something different.

Thank you in advance

posted on Mar, 15 2005 @ 07:12 PM
BEIJING, China (CNN) -- Taiwan's government has warned that China's new anti-secession law is a "war bill" that will have a "serious impact" on security in the region.

Calling the measure a "serious provocation," Joseph Wu, chairman of Taiwan's Mainland Affairs Council told The Associated Press it "restricts Taiwan's freedom and democracy, and has a serious impact on security in the East-Asia region."

On Monday, China's National People's Congress authorized the use of military force to stop any independence move by the island.

The measure "represents the common will and strong determination of the Chinese people to safeguard the territorial integrity" of China, NPC chairman Wu Bangguo said.

But Wu added the measure would only be used if Taiwan declared independence or if negotiations for peaceful reunification are exhausted.

Leaders in Beijing consider Taiwan a renegade province after Nationalist troops lost the civil war on the mainland and fled to the island in 1949.

China has long threatened to take military action to prevent Taiwan from declaring formal independence, but Monday's move lays a legal framework behind those threats.

Taiwan officials were quick to call the measure a "war bill," coming as China boosts its military spending by 13 percent to $30 billion.

"The anti-secession law is a law that authorizes war," Taiwan cabinet spokesman Cho Jung-tai told reporters.

"It has caused resentment in Taiwan and opposition in the international community. China has to bear the responsibility and pay a price for this law."

But Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao said the new legislation was not a "war bill" and warned outsiders not to get involved.

"This is a law advancing peaceful unification between the sides. It is not targeted at the people of Taiwan, nor is it a war bill," Wen said at a news conference, shortly after the law was passed.

The law also declares that the status of Taiwan "is China's internal affair, which subjects to no interference by any outside forces."

In Washington, the Bush administration last week called it "unhelpful" and urged Beijing to reconsider the bill.

China hopes the law will deter Taiwan President Chen Shui-bian from pushing for the island's independence before the end of his second and last term in 2008, analysts told Reuters news agency.

Despite the legislation, analysts say the People's Liberation Army has no immediate plans to attack Taiwan and the "non-peaceful" means is not specifically a reference to war. It could, for example, be economic sanctions or blockades.

Reuters reports the new law will feature in talks between U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and her Chinese counterpart Li Zhaoxing in Beijing on March 20-21.

Washington recognizes China but is Taiwan's main supporter and arms supplier.

U.S. President George W. Bush has pledged to help Taiwan defend itself against any Chinese attack.

There ya go right of CNN website, sorry i didnt post it earlier, true it does say help defend which could mean just by selling them missile, But I though i read earlier somewhere on this board that US has 2 or 3 aircraft carriers By Taiwan right now as we speak

posted on Mar, 16 2005 @ 05:12 PM
My vote is that China will not press Taiwan if U.S. is backing them up.

posted on Mar, 16 2005 @ 05:16 PM
As for who will have the US's backs... chances are, the only ones who don't want to get on the u.s.'s bad side. then again, like operation "Iraqi Freedom" they may not have much of any help.

posted on Mar, 16 2005 @ 05:16 PM

Originally posted by GypseyWing
My vote is that China will not press Taiwan if U.S. is backing them up.

Why? China would beat our butts good!

posted on Mar, 16 2005 @ 05:27 PM
I don't know of China's military structure but I believe U.S. would be well prepared to take China.

posted on Mar, 16 2005 @ 05:29 PM
Interesting question and it's been on my mind also. I would say that if China invades Taiwan, the US will do a lot of filibustering but will not engage. They would surely provide support for Taiwan but in the end, the US does not want to fight China due to the massive profits that both countries can see down the road. China is a jewel that both Putin and the US want to coddle favor with, and the US would do pretty much anything to win that contest, IMO. Incidentally, China does have at least the same claim to Taiwan that Israel has to the West Bank.

Having said that, I think the situation could change if China continues to involve itself in the South American continent as with their recent energy agreements with Brazil. As far as I know, this is a new move for China and if Peak Oil is true, this could eventually provoke the US as they have generally seen themselves as the steward of the entire American continent. I could see a scenario where China and Brazil form some kind of power block against the US if things went full-tilt nasty. Brazil is an emerging world power and the US has a nasty history of actions with their Central American neighbors. This history could contain lots of hidden anger towards "El Norte".

As an American who has read accounts of the Korean war, I do not want to see us fight China, EVER. Better to broker for peace because BOTH nations would be utterly destroyed should such a conflict boil over.

posted on Mar, 16 2005 @ 05:35 PM
Seems that some forget that the US is not the only one who has stipulated support of Taiwan (Furmosa).


posted on Mar, 16 2005 @ 06:00 PM
Wow, I didn't realize this subject had been totally hashed out in a 75 page thread:

...after reading through a lot of it, I agree with this poster:

revengeogmakhno said

China does not want to invade Taiwan. They want unification without a shot being fired and are willing to be very patient about it. If Taiwan was to move toward independence, the reaction would start off with posturing then move into the economic realm. At that point, the balance of political and social forces inside Taiwan would back off because their standard of living and their relative personal freedom is more important to them than a risky drive to independence.

Right now, China and Taiwan are both quietly profitting from their economic ties in a big way. Neither wants to upset that. Even a modest push by China will lead to a capital and skilled labour flight from Taiwan which is fundamentally counter-productive to the goal of taking Taiwan over.
(One poster mentioned taking over and matching Taiwan's expertise with slave labour conditions. Sounds great but a huge piece of the Taiwanese middle class would just leave. Again counter-productive)

If a time came wherein China was utterly dominant militarily and economically and the relationship with Taiwan did not represent much in overall economic terms, they could build pressure on Taiwan but it would be a slow process. Pushing or attacking the Taiwanese would bring resistence
but they can be slowly demoralized and resigned to an eventual unification. If the Chinese pull that off, they will have illustrated their self styled political and cultural superiority over the US. That kind of thinking plays well over there.

Furthermore, they want no part of a direct confrontation with the US. You can be absolutely sure of that. They are definitely willing to maneuver to reduce American power and influence in the world, but so is over 90% of the world. I can't say that I blame them on either count.

As far as the military balance goes, China could raise a lot of hell and devastation but trying to invade Taiwan now would be insanely costly, could well fail disasterously and would further discredit their government further in the eyes of their own people. It is not a popular government as it stands now.

This question can be asked again in 5 years although the situation might not be meaningfully different even then.

I've spent SERIOUS time in Taiwan and China over the last 8 years so I think I have a good read on this and can give many other arguments to support this perspective.

...I can't see a way around this argument. How would China keep Taiwan as the technology gem it is if they suffer a mass migration due to their invasion? They can't put a chainlink fence around the place.

Seeker, what do you think is the most probable outcome in say, 2-5 years? I need to do more research before I can give more than a layman's opinion.

posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 05:46 PM
Brazil a world power??? this is new to me, does anyone have any Info on Technology they have ,Airforce,manpower,navy,Tanks, and how they compare to the US

posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 11:31 AM
China is mentioned in Revelation as one of the Kings of the east that will rise and create much havoc and bloodshed in the end times. China is relatively quiet about what is possesses as far as missles, nukes, etc. China has the larget population in the world, has anyone ever taken that into consideration. China and Russia will cause much bloodshed during this time, just as the color of their flags are red, the color of blood will be shed by these two countries. China and Cuba are still allies to this day are two Communist parties. An agreement that President Carter signed in 1977 gave total control of the Panama Canal back to Cuba. As of now, there are Chinese workers working in that region to help expand Cuba's port. The US is just South of Cuba, and invasion if very possible by the Chinese from the South when the time comes.

posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 05:53 PM
Did anybody consider that maybe,just maybe the U.S,Europe and Russia are just playing the arabs and china with the game GOOD COP BAD COP!!!?

posted on Mar, 20 2005 @ 10:44 AM
excuse me if i have read this thread wrong, but what does this have to do with the nwo?

posted on Mar, 20 2005 @ 11:04 AM

Originally posted by LadyV
China would beat our butts good!

IF the U.S. got into 'it' with China over Taiwan China would lose worse than any defeat in their long history.

Most of the war will be at sea and in the air- the two areas where America is so far supreme to the rest of the world it could probably beat the whole world.

Ground tropps? Can't see the U.S. dropping the 101st into China- it makes no sense. But sinking EVERY Chinese vessel and downing every airplane- not a problem.

Want to throw nukes into the equation?

Depends on what the Chinese do with them.

If Taiwan only- then the Chinese may end up with an island of glass. Other than tha,t the U.S. in a few weeks.



posted on Mar, 20 2005 @ 06:36 PM
Fear China, Inc. 500 are warned here

America's 500 fastest-growing companies, as defined by Inc. magazine, yesterday heard how China is running circles around them and redefining the American way.

U.S. Relying More on Foreign Investors

America buys more than it sells and spends more than it earns. So who bankrolls the shortfalls? Foreign investors. The shortfall on all trade and investment income with the rest of the world swelled to an all-time high of $665.9 billion in 2004, according to the Commerce Department.

...Japan, followed by China and then Britain are the biggest holders of Treasury securities.

...If foreign investors were to lose some of their appetite in accumulating dollar-denominated assets at the current rapid rate and unload their holdings, the prices of U.S. stocks and bonds could plunge. And, interest rates — including those for mortgages — could soar.

By the looks of it, America can't go to war.

posted on Mar, 20 2005 @ 10:02 PM
zakattack - Brazil is a power, if just economically - it's GDP of nearly $1.4Trillion is almost as high as the United Kingdom's $1.6Trillion. And they're not completely backwards technologically either. Take Embraer, for example, it's jets have become major competition for Learjet.

posted on Mar, 20 2005 @ 11:26 PM
i had no idea that brazil was a power but what about there military strength?

And US would never allow a chinese Force to build up in Cuba, the US didnt even allow Russia to place Strategic missiles in cuba so i do not think a chinese build would be welcomed with open arms.

Ok then someone asked what does this have to do with the NWO

well Gee lets see...... "scratches head" well i actually have no idea why i posted this in here, i didnt even think about that when i made the post

posted on Mar, 20 2005 @ 11:33 PM
Brazil only spends about $10.5Billion on its military. However, they have about 1.7Million people becoming of military age per year, and there is compulsory conscription for a year when you hit 19. I know they have an air force and a navy, but have no clue as to what kind of hardware.

posted on Mar, 21 2005 @ 12:21 AM
Whos on whos side? Against China I think the US would be fairly on its own. How many countries would be upset that Taiwan unifies with china through force? What countries would side with china? Probably few if not zero. Again, what countries would be particularly happy that china unifies with taiwan through force? Not many countries can effectively fight the US in a conventional war, being an ally of china would bring US military action to them. If the war had prospects of going nuclear, even fewer.

The EU is emerging as the worlds 2nd superpower, and China the 3rd. The EU won't ally with the US, its not in their interest, and they've been playing more and more power politics lately due to their growing influence, economic strength, and greater sense of unity. So if the US asks the EU for help, expect a cold shoulder. The UK might contribute, but I doubt it after the Iraq SNAFU

I think if there ever was an armed conflict, it would be solely China v US. If it happens within 3 years, Bush is, I think, stubborn enough to stand by his pledge to support Taiwan which would possibly escalate things to a full scale conventional war.

People are very afraid of nuclear weapons and using nuclear weapons. I think either side would use them in an effort to turn the tide of a loosing war rather than a first strike weapon. However, once used, expect MAD.

Thats my opinion.

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