Something is eternal.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

If the universe (ie something) is eternal then it has no beginning or end where does that leave God? Something that is eternal can't have been created.

a reply to: midicon

In the beginning, there was the word, and that word was "circular"?

Time might not be as linear as it appears.

a reply to: midicon

You're now shifting the goal post because you ive thoroughly dealt with your issues with the OP.

a reply to: andy06shake

I wonder what the word was made out of lol

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I'm not, I just followed through on the idea that something is eternal. I then realised that if that were true then there is no place for God. How can it be otherwise. You can't have it both ways.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Change is eternal.
Nothing, lasts forever.

Sir Roger Penrose's Conformal cyclic cosmology model may bring some insight to this conversation.



With regard to singularities, we have very few observable parameters, so the question is not easily answerable with scientific method.

On a philosophical level, I am left with.
The concept of nothing is a self negating operator.
NOT NOT = EVERYTHING.

I believe, that this explanation has value to rest our limited minds.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

a reply to: midicon

Bingo!

originally posted by: midicon
a reply to: andy06shake

I wonder what the word was made out of lol

A word, like a song, can exists before it exists as an intention
it is only "real" as it given.
the harmonic series is eternal as a concept, but 'unfolds' in time.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
Either something is eternal or nothing is eternal.

If nothing is eternal, then something comes from nothing
Nothing is eternal.
Therefore, something comes from nothing.

The claim that nothing is eternal, necessarily leads us to the claim that something came from nothing. Now, this claim is to be frank absurd. Nothing does not have power(i.e.the ability produce effects), it does not have any quality or quantity, no relation, no properties. It is total and utter non-existence. No thing. Saying that it can produce something is to make it something, and thus one cannot consistently claim that something came from nothing. Therefore, something is eternal.

if nothing is eternal, every thing changes.
We know that the physical realm tend to entropy, which is the measure of time.
we don't know if anything is eternal, except if it were not so, it would be not so eternally.
Causality at it's has meaning in time which at its axis is like a polar coordinate.
if everything did not come from nothing, where did it come from ?
change is a difference denoted by the negative mathematical operator. (-)
we know there is everything so there must therefor be nothing to.
the first difference operator was a paradoxical double negative.
perhaps the square root of -1 is a clue.
I think some kind of mathematical boot strapping is to blame.

It turtles all the way down

a reply to: carsforkids

Think of the infinite size and scale of the universe, our place within such, humanity's limited mental capacity, the feeble tools, and technologies we have at our disposal, with regards to any real understanding of the totality of it all?

If there is a creator or creator force, i don't think its a person, or individual, in any classical sense of the word.

Can an ant, or more like a virus/bacteria, know Man or even begin to fathom, comprehend or understand, our intent or purpose in any sort of meaningful manner?

a reply to: andy06shake

"If there is a Creator?"

Truly an infinite conversation is to be had pondering that thought.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Right, and that's why you think the answer I've given can be incorrect.

Exactly right!!!

What other possibilities are there?

a reply to: carsforkids

That's the point though.

The conversation is not infinite, nor are our thoughts we can have on the matter, but limited to a degree, by our perspectives, and by our very biological 3-dimensional capacity to understand and interpret a reality that probably comprises at least 11 dimensions.

It's an interesting conversation all the same, but any meaningful understanding or answers remain to be seen.

a reply to: rom12345

And since in the beginning there was only the word/song whatever you choose to call it.

What did it propagate through without space-time?

It's an interesting conundrum.

a reply to: Gravelbone

If nothing last forever, then change cannot be eternal as that would change last forever.

apparently true or false or both or neither has utility when it comes to underlying reality.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: midicon

You're now shifting the goal post because you ive thoroughly dealt with your issues with the OP.

I don't have any issues. I accept the premise that something is eternal. I now ask if something is eternal then can it have been created? It's a simple enough question. I ask because there is an obvious contradiction here for you if you believe in a creator and am curious how you resolve it.

The Only Thing That Is Eternal In This Celestial Upbringing Is The Change You Yourself Bring About.
Up Until Another Defiantly Uproots It. You May Even Be The One To Uproot Something Along Your Travels.

However... In Regards To The Universe... Per Se... There Is One Who Won't Be So Easily Uprooted. Just Love A Kind-hearted Gift He So Generously Gave You. It's Called 'Woman!' Not God... He Isn't Designed To Cater To You. But You To Her...
What More Can You Ask Of Such Blessings As This Isolated World Where All Is Here So That She Can Be Too. WITH YOU!

I, Pinocchio, Am A Liar... It's In My Nature To Lie. Since I Can't Lie With Woman... I'll Just Spread A Lie Everywhere I Go.

AND No! I'm Straight!

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb
I just listened to this interesting talk about the eternal nothing.
I think you might like it as it fits nicely in with this thread.