International Transgender Day of Visibility

originally posted by: Macenroe82
a reply to: Boadicea

I've always thought anyone trans that feels the need to impose their lifestyle on children Aka tranny story time,
Are mentally unstable to begin with.

Yes, such behavior has always been considered at the least unacceptable, if not outright mentally unstable. And it's because of such behavior that we have child safeguarding rules and procedures. It's shocking to me that these are being thrown out the door to "validate" an adult's fetishes! I cannot wrap my head around that kind of thinking. It's probably a good thing I don't understand it. I don't want to. I just have to know it's wrong and not accept it as "normal" or "harmless."

I'm leaving it at that, I don't want to derail the OP.

Too late! You said "apple crisp"...

I'm having a good day, Making an apple crisp with the wife and kids.

Oh how I love a good crisp!!! Warm from the oven, melting vanilla ice cream dripping down the sides, that pinch of cinnamon and nutmeg... YUM! Apple will always be the best, of course. An apple/pear crisp is yummy too. And peach crisps... now I can't wait for peaches to be in season too!

a reply to: Boadicea

We need to stop giving "bonus rights" to transgenders. If a male prisoner can claim to be a female and get transfered to a womens' prison, or be released, then all male prisoners should be allowed to do the same.

If male athletes can claim to "identify as female" and then compete in women's sports, then all males should be allowed to compete "as women."

Car insurance and life insurance rates for males are higher - males should tell the insurance companies they want the female rate.

If insurance is going to cover hormone treatments and "sex-change" operations, then they should also cover anabolic steroids and other mind-altering drugs. They should cover elective prosthetics of all kinds - maybe I want 4 arms.

Maybe if we take it all to the extreme, people will finally wake up to the nonsense this is.

originally posted by: dogstar23
a reply to: Boadicea

We need to stop giving "bonus rights" to transgenders... Maybe if we take it all to the extreme, people will finally wake up to the nonsense this is.

That may be exactly what it takes. At least, it could be what it takes for some people to really look at what is being demanded. And "bonus rights" is a good way to put it! But so much of this activism has gone completely unnoticed by most people, that it's taken a while to see the big picture. That's changing now, so maybe that will be enough... their extremism will be enough... and the rest of us won't have to go to those extremes after all.

Are you okay?

Perfectly fine, thank you!

Un-bind to the macabre acceptance of leftist propaganda officially attacking mine and my families way of life.

You might want to look into how normies are treated outside of the mainstream. You will NEVER hear of it mentioned within those confines. I am still under a gag order on Facebook for posting a video from a young teen "Cringe Panda"
speaking out on the issue.

Something's terribly wrong here on this planet.

a reply to: 20Eyes74

I am still under a gag order on Facebook for posting a video from a young teen "Cringe Panda" speaking out on the issue.

I had to look for myself and... well... that is one very precocious child! I feel for her parents when she hits the impossible teens...

Still wrapping my head around the idea that they think they need to be more "visible" then modern society has already made them.

a reply to: Boadicea

It was absolutely delicious.

Then for dinner she did home made caesar salad, garlic bread and a bacon, tomato and spinach, pasta carbonara.

It was excellent!

Here we go again, just like clockwork and here I am again providing a counterpoint for those that may wish to broaden their perspective and those who prefer to hear more than one biased side of the story.

First, my standard disclaimer: I am not a trans activist. I find most actions and demands of the activist community to be reprehensible and unreasonable but just like I consider the views of the OP, they represent vocal and radical fringe elements unrepresentative of the majority as a whole. My opinions are based on fifty years of actual real world experience with the trans community through close personal family connections and decades of research and study into the scientific and medical literature on the phenomenon as well as experience knowing dozens of actual trans persons themselves which the OP cannot claim to have. Therefore, I feel qualified to comment in this thread and some obligation to do so with the hope that some may find merit in my contribution although I realize in this opinion confirming environment my words probably fall on deaf ears?

Firstly, I understand because the whole trans thing is poorly understood, is controversial and has been weaponized as a political wedge, many are firmly entrenched in their own opinions with threads such this one and similar ones routinely posted by the same member only reinforcing those views but there are two sides to every coin and my only intent is to provide a balancing counterpoint for those that wish to have a better understanding of these issues. Doing so in this venue is difficult because things are more complicated and less black and white than some would like them to be.

So, are there crazy “trans” people doing bad things and making unreasonable demands? Absolutely, what demographic of any sort doesn’t have these elements? Just a cursory look at the far left and the far right provides enough evidence of this to those with a lick of common sense to see but just like the divide between the trans activists and the gender critical feminists, the silent mainstream majority voices or those that don’t fall into either ideology get left in the dust so the casual observer ends up picking a side and rooting for the team most closely matching to their own paradigm whether reality based or not. This is unfortunate.

As in my previous participation in threads of this nature, my only concern is that persistent anti-trans proselytization of this sort paints with a single broad brush highlighting the worst of the worst categorizing all transgender and transsexual people into one monolithic stereotype which is the definition of bigotry leading to prejudice when this is unfair and as unjust as painting all from south of the border as rapists and drug dealers or those with different color skin as murderers and criminals for example.

TERFs (transgender exclusionary radical feminists) or gender critical feminists as they prefer to be called even though they themselves originated the acronym as a self identifier have paradoxically aligned their ideology with far right conservatism traditionally not known for their support of women’s right in general and I consider their rhetoric and dogma equally as specious to those of the radical trans activists.

With that said, not all trans people fit into the picture painted by the OP and in fact many or maybe even most do not but it is undeniable that like in any group, there will be different types or categories comprising the demographic. While it may seem from the outside observer that all trans folks represent a single mindset, taxonomy, etiology or ideology, that is simply not the case and it is wrong and an immature understanding of the condition to believe that they are. Even those within the trans community themselves try to blur these lines in the name of inclusivity and political cohesiveness which does a great disservice to certain individuals within their own community so it isn’t hard to see why some would lump all trans people into the category of crazy misogynist deluded men who “identify” as women, invading our spaces, demanding and usurping our rights, destroying athletics and all the other negatives painted by the OP’s crusade.

The creator of this thread and many similar ones she has created is thoroughly indoctrinated into the gender critical ideology, is well read, knowledgeable of their position and eloquent in her delivery and adept at parroting their dogma and links verbatim. I give her credit for that and for taking a stand but like in our past encounters, I encourage others to recognize the views presented are those considered by most to be of radical extremists and to not paint all trans people in such a negative light because some are jerks with mental problems.

Thank you.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Still wrapping my head around the idea that they think they need to be more "visible" then modern society has already made them.

I really think that's the narcissism at play. At least, it's their narcissism being played for political reasons, if that makes sense. And that's why the worst of the worse (predominantly autogynephiles) are encouraged and enabled to demand ever more attention. It feeds their ego and sexual fetishes... until someone brings them back to reality by "misgendering" them or some nonsense, then we get their narcissistic rage. Like the "It's Ma'am!" Game Stop freakout. I really doubt he could help himself, which just makes this all the scarier.

I really don't get the left's motivation here. This is just one more reason they are bleeding supporters. Not just those oh-so-awful TERF feminists, but also many transgender persons who really do just want to live their lives in peace (just as the opposite sex).

a reply to: Kalamitous

I encourage others to recognize the views presented are those considered by most to be of radical extremists and to not paint all trans people in such a negative light because some are jerks with mental problems.

I'm glad you said your piece. And quite eloquently.

It's all well and good to say -- rightly and correctly -- that "not all trans are like that." Fair enough and true enough. But at this point, most are "like that." Perhaps not outright violent, but most definitely abusive in various ways.

If and when the troublemakers and problem people are taken out of the equation, it will be a much different conversation. But as long as these are the driving forces in Trans Activism, then these are the forces that we have to deal with.

The overwhelmingly vast majority of people don't give a rats' patootie how other people live their lives, as long as no one is getting hurt. The trampling of rights and trying to dictate the speech of others -- not to mention their thoughts and beliefs -- is way over the line. And we're not even getting into the gross abuse of children being "trans'd" into a lifetime of medical dependency (even without painful complications and both known and unknown adverse outcomes), which is child abuse on a whole new level.

With all due respect, your interests would be much better served making the same distinctions, rather than blurring the lines. In fact, from everything I've read, those transgender people you claim you want to protect and defend are also harmed by this Trans Activism, they also disagree with the Trans Activist agenda, and they have also spoken out only to be harassed, bullied and abused by the Activists. You aren't protecting or defending them. Exactly the opposite.

a reply to: Boadicea
Transgendered people should just act normal, and most people wouldn't notice.

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Boadicea
Transgendered people should just act normal, and most people wouldn't notice.

Yup! And even if anyone did notice, if they're not being offensive or obnoxious, no one will care. It would be like noting someone is tall or short or brunette or whatever. It just is.

And for many, that's enough. It's the ones for whom it's not enough that become the problems.

originally posted by: Boadicea
It's all well and good to say -- rightly and correctly -- that "not all trans are like that." Fair enough and true enough. But at this point, most are "like that." Perhaps not outright violent, but most definitely abusive in various ways.

Most? Since you have previously stated that you do not actually know any transgender or transsexual people, how can you say this with any degree of credibility? You believe what you’ve been spoon fed by your anti-trans comrades and I find it quite sad that such an obviously intelligent woman has been so easily and completely indoctrinated into their ideology.

If and when the troublemakers and problem people are taken out of the equation, it will be a much different conversation. But as long as these are the driving forces in Trans Activism, then these are the forces that we have to deal with.

While not in any way defending their actions, activists for any cause are often seen as troublemakers and radicals by those wishing to maintain the status quo. As I’ve said, I find the actions of the extremist trans mafia to be as deplorable as you do and blame them for the backlash normal everyday trans folks and particularly trans youth are experiencing.

The overwhelmingly vast majority of people don't give a rats' patootie how other people live their lives, as long as no one is getting hurt. The trampling of rights and trying to dictate the speech of others -- not to mention their thoughts and beliefs -- is way over the line.

To a certain extent, I do not disagree with this and you will find many trans people feel the same way. Even within the trans community, many such as popular trans YouTubers Blaire White and Rose of Dawn rally against this madness and the notorious figures somehow labeled as trans activists like the Jessica Yanivs of the world.

And we're not even getting into the gross abuse of children being "trans'd" into a lifetime of medical dependency (even without painful complications and both known and unknown adverse outcomes), which is child abuse on a whole new level.

And this inflammatory rhetoric # is where you step over my line and into my area of expertise and focus so let’s not go there again. I don’t disagree that this is problematic and the diagnostic criteria and protocols in this area are ripe for review and a little significant reigning in but I also know as should you if you had any actual experience or knowledge in this area that the true and genuine transsexuals that go on to live happy, productive and regular lives through facilitating the proper therapies and care in their youth are the most healthy and successful.

With all due respect, your interests would be much better served making the same distinctions, rather than blurring the lines. In fact, from everything I've read, those transgender people you claim you want to protect and defend are also harmed by this Trans Activism, they also disagree with the Trans Activist agenda, and they have also spoken out only to be harassed, bullied and abused by the Activists. You aren't protecting or defending them. Exactly the opposite.

Well, clearly you have misread. I do make these distinctions and blame the trans activists as the ones wishing to blur the lines and I myself have been attacked, silenced and called a TERF for my positions as they fall outside of the approved narrative that all trans people are alike without distinctions in taxonomies or etiologies. I’ve seen and known the different “types” and they are as different as night and day but it is considered heretical to the cause to talk about this. Those that do are considered elitists or separatists which I find disheartening because if the general public was more aware of these differences, they could direct their indignation and ire more appropriately but that would leave some trans people out in the cold and we can’t have that in this day and age of inclusivity and intersectionality. [/sarc]

In fact, one of the fundamentals of my argument is to not condemn or throw all trans people under the bus just because there are a few bad actors wanting to change society to fit their narrative. There are many that deserve compassion and understanding and although Boadicea you have said you have that for some, I haven't seen that demonstrated in your tirades beyond your hollow words offered transparently to hide your true feelings to not sound like a complete jerk nor have you ever complied with my requests to clarify who those "good" trans people you allegedly support actually are.

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Boadicea
Transgendered people should just act normal, and most people wouldn't notice.

Aye. They're horribly intrusive.

a reply to: Kalamitous

There are many that deserve compassion and understanding and although Boadicea you have said you have that for some, I haven't seen that demonstrated in your tirades beyond your hollow words offered transparently to hide your true feelings to not sound like a complete jerk...

"Tirades"..."hollow words"..."hide true feelings"... "complete jerk"...

Why should I bother saying anything to you? You've made it very clear that you are going to think the worst of me regardless of what I say. You've decided you know my true heart and mind... something that you cannot possibly know... so you've now lost all credibility.

I say what I mean and I mean what I say. I have made very clear distinctions, and I have always sourced my information -- as you well know. It was and is the only way to counter the major gaslighting being done by the Trans Activism. As I have said many times, when and if Trans Activists stop trampling rights and putting others in harm's way, we will have a very different conversation. Unless and until then, I will continue to shine a big fat spotlight on the bad behavior.

... nor have you ever complied with my requests to clarify who those "good" trans people you allegedly support actually are.

Oh gee... should I make a list of "good" Black people too? How about "good" homosexuals? Or "good" lawyers? Are you freaking kidding me???

The last time we had this go round, you carped on about me not knowing any transgender persons. No, I don't. But I gave you several examples of when I had interacted with transgender persons, and you didn't have a damn thing to say about it. So don't pretend like I've avoided anything. Did I blow your mind when I had real positive interactions with folks who were transgender? (GASP!!!) Is that why you're changing the goalposts? Can't call me hateful and transphobic and any of your other choice insults?

The "good" transgender persons are the same as any other "good" persons. They don't trample others' rights and they don't put others in harm's way. And they sure as hell don't use the barrel of a government gun to force their will (and sexual fetishes) on others. They have respect and courtesy for others, and might just be kind and nice to others. They are responsible and productive members of society, and are happy to live and let live.

Obviously.

a reply to: IredBafi

I'm sorry you had a bad experience. I hope you're past it...

And welcome to ATS

originally posted by: Boadicea
"Tirades"..."hollow words"..."hide true feelings"... "complete jerk"...

Why should I bother saying anything to you? You've made it very clear that you are going to think the worst of me regardless of what I say. You've decided you know my true heart and mind... something that you cannot possibly know... so you've now lost all credibility.

Nitpicking about a few words that got your panties in a bunch is simply diffusion and a dodge. You should have heard the things my friends I’ve shared this and other of your threads with have said that I won’t repeat. Maybe if I explain my choice of words, you’ll feel better about my selections? Probably not but since we’re stooping to minutia, here goes:

Tirade
1. a speech, usually consisting of a long string of violent, emotionally charged words.
2. a prolonged outburst of bitter, outspoken denunciation

I was going to refer to your repeated threads on this topic as hateful screeds but thought better of it. You’ve demonstrated a consistent pattern of posting nothing but contempt and animosity toward trans people that do nothing but promote hostility, bias, negativity and ill will against their community. You’re a self-righteous crusader on a mission with a clearly defined agenda that I know many consider to be nothing but hateful bigotry regardless of how objective and reasonable you think you are.

”hollow words”…”true feelings”…

It doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to see through your not so thinly disguised contempt for transgender people and your occasional words of support for “the good ones” is pretty hard to swallow. Maybe you don’t want to acknowledge how things come across but your true colors aren’t hard for anyone to see.

”complete jerk”

Okay, it was 4:00 in the morning when an entire compliment of synapses was failing to fire. I first thought to use the word cretin and simply failed to come up with a more colorful euphemism than jerk as a replacement. Sorry. I’m sure you’re a nice person in general but when it comes to this topic, my opinion of your repeated negative proselytizing is pretty low.

I say what I mean and I mean what I say. I have made very clear distinctions, and I have always sourced my information

Yes, and your sources are always the most objective and un-biased on the web. [/s] For the most part, your sources are like taking CNN, MSNBC, FOXNEWS, Breitbart, The Federalist, Wikipedia, Buzzfeed or the Huffington Post as gospel. Credibility dear, credibility.

Unless and until then, I will continue to shine a big fat spotlight on the bad behavior.

And in doing so you paint the entire trans community in general as a whole in a very negative light. Few people understand your “very clear distinctions”.

The last time we had this go round, you carped on about me not knowing any transgender persons. No, I don't. But I gave you several examples of when I had interacted with transgender persons, and you didn't have a damn thing to say about it…

So don't pretend like I've avoided anything. Did I blow your mind when I had real positive interactions with folks who were transgender? (GASP!!!) Is that why you're changing the goalposts? Can't call me hateful and transphobic and any of your other choice insults?

Seriously, your think your anecdotes of random encounters where you acted like a civil human being to a trans person gives you a pass? I said nothing because I likened your tales to those claiming they can’t be a racist because they have a black friend and I can’t believe you think you deserve a pat on the back because you “interacted”. We live in one of the largest metro areas in the country and chances are you’ve met multiple trans people and been absolutely clueless about it. Truly knowing someone trans and having met and randomly interacted with one or two is hardly the same thing.

The "good" transgender persons are the same as any other "good" persons. They don't trample others' rights and they don't put others in harm's way. And they sure as hell don't use the barrel of a government gun to force their will (and sexual fetishes) on others. They have respect and courtesy for others, and might just be kind and nice to others. They are responsible and productive members of society, and are happy to live and let live.

So as long a trans person sits down, shuts up and abides by your rules, doesn’t make waves and conforms to your standards, they’re okay. You accuse them of being tramplers of rights, fetishists, men in dresses and consistently misgender, defame and dehumanize them and then want them to roll over and play dead? It isn’t hard to see why the trans community has such animosity and pushback against the gender critical TERFs when they clearly wish that trans people didn’t exist at all.

Let’s not even mention blatantly discriminatory anti-trans and general anti-LGB legislation spreading nationwide or how the lives and health of trans people have been turned into a political football. Few realize the resilience and determination trans folks are capable of. When these people are cornered, they’re going to fight back and as a friend and ally to their community, I stand with them but in no way does that means I support the tactics and actions of the radical activist minority that I too find deplorable as I feel information and education is a more practical approach. That’s what motivates me being here speaking to balance your campaign of antagonism because people without a vested interest in all this deserve more than just your side of the story.

a reply to: Kalamitous

Oh no... people said mean things about me... whatever shall I do???

Oh that's right. Not a damn thing, because I'm not the one desperate for acceptance and validation.

In the big picture, I have said nothing as vile and hateful and VIOLENT as Trans Activists have said about me, whether directly or indirectly as I am obviously a "TERF" and "transphobe." Nothing even close. Nor have I ever said anything as vile and hateful as many Rad Fems and other GC folks. I have been very specific in my criticisms and my contempt. I very clearly distinguish between autogynephiles and homosexual transsexuals, and that they have very different causes, motivations and expressions. I have also made clear distinctions between the Trans Activists pushing the Trans Agenda, and those transgender persons who very much disagree. Especially those with genuine gender dysphoria who know their best interests are ALSO being hijacked and usurped for those with dubious purposes, including sexual fetishes.

You have basically agreed with every criticism and distinction I have made in the most milquetoast manner... "hollow words" come to mind, so that you don't "sound like a complete jerk". You have minimized, belittled and undermined the very real harm being done to many -- MANY! -- people by Trans Activists specifically, and the Trans Agenda in general. All while telling me (and anyone that would read your comments) what an awful and hateful person I am.

You're gaslighting. You know it and I know it. So give yourself a big pat on the back, Kal, because it is exactly this gaslighting that motivates me to shine that big fat spotlight you hate so much.

As always, our words will stand on their own merit, and everyone will come to their own conclusions.

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Boadicea
Transgendered people should just act normal, and most people wouldn't notice.

It's like the old argument of the bathroom wars:

"We've been using your bathrooms for years, and you never knew!"

Yeah, we likely didn't because you were acting normal. Now you're really letting your freak flags fly so we all have to know how "special" you are.

Go back to being "normal" like the rest of us, and there aren't any problems are there?

You want to be a woman? *Be* a woman. Don't be a man wearing a woman's dress who wants to come into the ladies' locker room with all the franks and beans attached.

Today, the BP Amoco gas station changed the signs on the doors of its two bathrooms from "Unisex" to "M/F".

Was that due to this "visibility" initiative?