For all the naysayers and nothingburgers

a reply to: Tim2win

I was thinking someone in their death throes.

a reply to: Nyiah

I dont know about Spain but I will say i have first-hand knowledge of how crappy the Italian healthcare system is. I broke my leg in multiple places on a trip to Italy and just that experience I was lucky to leave the country alive. There was just one thing after another dealing with their physicians.

a reply to: tinktinktink

You know the experts have been saying the same crap for weeks. All I'm hearing is just wait in a few weeks the deaths in America will be worse than Italy and Spain. Sorry to tell you but I doubt America will be hit as hard as Italy and Spain. We have better healthcare and a better diet than these countries. I mean the virus has been here since January and we aren't loosing 400-600 a day, and I hope yo God it stays like that. Stop listening and spreading lies, we aren't short on ventilators yet and 99% of Americans that catch it recover at home. It's like some of you people want all this terrible stuff to happen just so you can be right.

a reply to: Tim2win

I'm not buying it.
You're exaggerating and allowing media hysteria to mold your views.

Not a single thing you believe about this virus is true judging by your overreacting and fear levels.

It's the common cold.
This variant has a death rate of approximately .03%, which is not worth being alarmed by.

Your hospitals are struggling because the TV convinced every person to rush up there to get checked out for the most minor symptoms.

Plus by being mind controlled into hysteria, many people are having psychosomatic symptoms created purely from beliefs and not actual medical conditions.

It only looks bad because everyone is being real stupid right now.

a reply to: OG1KenObi

I'm pissed because every single thing the Media said turned out to be false.

They knew they were hyping up a global hysteria too because they omitted the fact it's the common cold.

I never once heard them admit the Truth.
If they reported on this virus honestly no one would have cared.

post 1/2

originally posted by: intergalactic fire
a reply to: Nyiah

Maybe it's about the difference in culture?
In countries like Italy and Spain, people are more 'close' to each other, and I mean physically close, and not just with their own family.
Countries like Belgium, Germany or the Scandinavia countries up North were cases are (still) fairly low and under control in comparison, people there are a lot more distant. It's like they've been 'social distancing' for a long time before the virus.
It's probably not the main reason but it could play a part.

Difference in culture is definitely huge, as is quality and availability of healthcare..

I'm a 38 y.o. Dutch national, but living and working in Spain for almost 2 years now. I'm working in the most basic food industry there is, bread, as a distribution driver, delivering bread and pastry from the main bakery/factory to the 11 "panaderia's" of our chain in the city of Pontevedra, Galicia. I'm in the (lucky) position to be able to continue to work, and that most of my work is outside. Being forced to stay indoors would drive me nuts. Also, i'm in the position to see with my own eyes what's going on in the streets while doing my job, and honestly, what i'm seeing is not at all comforting.

First of all, the total lockdown, i'm not sure what to think of this, i think forcing people indoors is a bad thing, i think the way the Dutch are handling it by having the virus spread in a controlled fashion and by doing so growing herd immunity is a much more sensible way of handling it. I'm far from an expert though and the healthcare systems of the countries are totally different, so there might be very valid reasons for the Spanish government to try and limit the spread with extreme measures.
My girlfriend has health issues, and for this reason i've experienced the healthcare system in Spain on many occasions, and i can say i'm far from impressed. It might be free, but in my opinion, it's not good. (or maybe i'm just spoiled by the Dutch system).
Having problems related to the bloodcells, my girlfriend needs regular checkups and blood samples taken. Also she often needs a sudden visit to the GP simply because she feels ill because of her low defenses (may i say she's scared to death by the virus and simply doesnt set one foot outside of the house, and with good reason).

I will first explain how this would work in the Netherlands.

If she feels ill, she calls the doctor's office for an appointment with the GP. In most cases she will have an appointment for the same day, usually within a few hours. The assistant nurse answering the phone will do a quick triage to narrow down what might be wrong, and to see if it might be wise to schedule a "double slot" if she feels you might need more time with the GP, and the appointment will be made. When arriving at the doctor's office at the time of your appointment, you will be called in with at most 10 or 20 minutes of waiting. The majority of the time you will be called in exactly at the time of your appointment. Let's say that after the diagnostics of the GP he/she wants her to do a blood screening.. The doctor will fill in a form with the specifications for the screening and hand it to her, and will direct her to go to the main desk where the nurse (that also answers the phone when you call) will process the appointment for the blood samples to be taken. In general, this appointment will be for the following morning, in the same building. Again, arriving on time for the blood test will mean you will be helped on time, with little or no delays or waiting. After the samples are taken, it will take upto 14 days (including weekends) until the nurse calls you with the results, though more often than not she will call way sooner than that, and if needed, will schedule another appointment with you for further treatment or analysis. If after one of your appointments you need prescription drugs, the GP will write you a prescription, wich you can then pick up at the in-house pharmacy.
This scenario is hypothetical, but based on my own experiences with the Dutch healthcare system.

Now, my experiences here in Spain.

A basic appointment with a GP requires you to call or use an app. Nothing wrong with that, but so far, every single appointment we've made have had days of waiting, with the least being 3 days, and the most 14(!!). This is just for a simple appointment for feeling ill.. When arriving at the GP's office, there is ALWAYS a waiting line of hours. and i literally mean hours. We've experienced one occasion where we had to wait for only half an hour. All others were 2 hours or more, with the longest wait being 3,5 hours after the time of our appointment, with sick people people crammed into a waiting area that's too small for the amount of people. What strikes me as odd is that the doctor regularly calls out names of people that aren't there, who made an appointment but couldn't be arsed to cancel it and instead simply don't show up, and that even with all these no-shows, the delays are so damn high.
The same goes for the hospitals.. The blood samples are not taken at the doctor's office. Instead, you will have to go to the hospital. The GP will schedule the appointment for you, but so far we've never had one within 1 week. 14 days between your visit to the GP and your sample being taken seems to be about the average. The waiting line at the hospital is the same as at the GP, hours and hours of waiting is the norm, with people dying of hunger and thirst because of the fact that you need to be sober for 12 hours before any blood sampling, resulting in many moody, agitated and angry people crammed into a waiting area for hours on end. Adding more frustration to a hospital visit, something that isn't exactly fun to begin with.
After the blood samples are taken, you will get a date at wich you should call the doctor for the results, usually 2 weeks after the sampling. Only once it happened that the results were actually in at that date, all other times we had to call back numerous times until he told us results are known. When results are in, you will get an appointment with the doctor to discuss the outcome of the tests, using the same process as for any normal doctor's appointment. Hours of waiting, even if results show that there is nothing wrong. We have literally spent hours waiting in line simply for the doctor to tell us that "everything's fine". One one occasion he actually told us that the results were lost, and we had to redo the test.
If medicine are needed, you will be forwarded to a pharmacy that may or may not have the medicine needed on stock, and if you need a cocktail of medicine, you might find yourself needing multiple pharmacies to fulfill your prescription.

It's clear that the healthcare system here has serious problems in staffing and efficiency with a normal everyday workload already. Add to this the peak in emergency cases that we have now with the spread of the coronavirus, and i think it's clear why the Spanish government chose to completely lock down the country, because even spreading the infection as thin as possible will completely overload the healthcare system....

post 2/2

Next, the cultural differences..

My job is an important part of Spanish culture.. People buy daily fresh bread, that gets delivered to small bakeries dotted troughout cities and towns multiple times per day. These bakeries often have bars/coffeeshops attached. The Spanish love their coffees, the pastry that goes with it. Many eat their breakfast and drink their morning coffee before work in one of these "panaderias". many go eat their lunch when all business closes between 14:00 and 16:00 at one of these aswell, or at a small restaurant. After work, again many go to a bar, to grab a beer with colleagues or friends, before going home for dinner. The Spanish are incredibly social and active, and a big part of this social life revolves around going outdoors to meet up to grab a quick drink or bite somewhere with friends and family. Streets are almost always crowded and without a quarantine being enforced by both the police and military, and forcefully closing down all commerce that doesnt serve the primary needs of the population (basic food and groceries, medicine and combustibles), i think it would be almost impossible to keep the Spanish from continuing their daily life the way they are used to, as it is a huge part of their culture to be out and about.

In the Netherlands, they live kind of the opposite. People spend more time at home. Grabbing a quick coffee outdoors or a quick bite somewhere with friends is not something that people tend to do. Obviously people socialise, but it's more in-house. People visit eachother at their homes, rather than meeting up outdoors. People don't really tend to go downtown if they don't need to. And surely not just to drink a coffee. Everything in the netherlands is centralised, and outside of the designated commercial areas it's almost impossible to find coffeebars and such where you can go on foot for a quick drink or bite. Almost everything needs a bike or car if it comes down to distance. Residential areas are just that, residential areas. They go to work, take their lunch and such for the day, and have their scheduled breaks, only to leave the job to go back home, have dinner, and spend the rest of the evening at home with family, or to visit friends and family at their respective homes. Now, with the virus on the loose, people tend to stay indoors even more, and streets are pretty much empty without any quarantaine being enforced.

The differences in culture and the healthcare system are huge. And thus the differences in how the countries tackle the current situation, will be huge aswell. And even though i think the Dutch approach is better in their specific situation, I'm almost 100% certain this apprach simply wouldn't work in Spain, would completely overload the healthcare system, and a voluntary self-quarantaine simply wouldn't work because it's simply too big a part of the culture in Spain to do your socialising in public places with many people all around you.

The Olive Press

According to a Spanish newspaper the crying Spanish doctor video is a hoax. The article says that there are more than enough ventilators for their patients that need them. Maybe he is a crisis actor?


Ok, apparently, the link doesn't work. But if you Google www.olivepress.es/spain-news/2020/03/26/lies-madrid-health-authority-denies-taking-ventilators-from-the-over-65s-despite-viral-video-of-crying-spanish -doctor you should be able to get to the article.

a reply to: Tim2win

Good first thread.

While i haven't and effin clue what a nothingburger is, i'm guessing it's something to do with not being able to get a burger.

You'll be fine, you're Irish and while i am not irish, i'm of irish descent, we are resilient-you and I get can simply say 'feck off back to your sidhe you gob#e!' with a guiness in one hand and a potato in the other.

I hope you are safe and well and remain so can return home to Eire and not watch lacrosse and gaelic football,

go aberdeen!!! wait wrong country. Go Galway!!! stay safe and well.

a reply to: muzzleflash

I'm not #in selling it.

If you think the world has turned upside down and every government and media outlet is in on a conspiracy to pass the common cold off as something else because you have a feeling...

Everyone else is being real stupid right now, yeah?

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

Cheers buddy,
Been 2 weeks since I've had a guiness, gonna have to remedy that tomorrow.

a reply to: tattooedlunchlady

Have only found the olivepress article about this and they are reporting that there are enough ventilators for everyone.

I really do hope thats right and what I posted was bull#.

Everyone needs to calm the F down.

There are so many variables on a country by country basis that got entirely ignored that none of this means it’s on your doorstep.

I’m in the camp that millions on millions are “infected”. My town has about 25k residents - which is about the global death toll. If my town was obliterated the world wouldn’t stop spinning.

Beyond that, how many of you who are losing your S have taken time to understand how the “death tolls” are being calculated? Do you know how Italy counts a “Covid death”? It dramatically overstated the death toll.

Don’t buy the hype. Is this a problem? Yes. Should you comply with local orders? Yes. Is this going to end humanity? Not in the slightest.

Also, to the point of the neighbor who “seemed fine” but is 40-50 years old and died days later - do you know their medical history? How about their lifestyle choices? Exercise? Vitamin deficiency? Cleanliness of their home? Personal hygiene habits?

See where I’m going with this?

Don’t take information in a vacuum. I expect more out of ATS.

originally posted by: 727Sky
Horrible... has anyone asked why Italy and Iran ?

EMAIL take it for what it is worth:

Why Italy and Iran?

Italy and Iran have been two of the countries hardest hit by the Wuhan coronavirus, outside of China. Why ? Helen Raleigh explains at The Federalist:

The reason these two countries are suffering the most outside China is mainly due to their close ties with Beijing, primarily through the “One Belt and One Road” (OBOR) initiative.

OBOR is Beijing’s foreign policy play disguised as infrastructure investment. Here’s how it works: China and country X agree to do an infrastructure project in country X. Country X has to borrow from a Chinese bank to finance the project. A contract is always awarded to Chinese companies, which then bring supplies and Chinese employees to country X to build the project.

As a result of One Belt and One Road, there are more than 300,000 Chinese living in Italy.

Almost exactly a year ago in March 2019, against warnings from the EU and the United States, Italy became the first and only G7 country to sign onto OBOR. As part of the deal, Italy opened an array of sectors to Chinese investment, from infrastructure to transportation, including letting Chinese state-owned companies hold a stake in four major Italian ports. …

Lombardy and Tuscany are the two regions that saw the most Chinese investment. Nearly a year later, the first Wuhan coronavirus infection case in Italy was reported in the Lombardy region on Feb. 21. Today, Italy is experiencing the worst coronavirus outbreak outside China, and Lombardy is the hardest-hit region in the country.



The Iran case is interesting as well:

2019 was the year Iran officially signed up to OBOR. China sees Iran as a crucial player to this initiative because Iran is not only rich in oil but also lies in a direct path of an ambitious 2,000-mile railroad China wants to build, which will run from western China through Tehran and Turkey into Europe.

Today, Iranian health officials trace the country’s coronavirus outbreak to Qom, a city of a million people. According to the Wall Street Journal, “China Railway Engineering Corp. is building a $2.7 billion high-speed rail line through Qom. Chinese technicians have been helping refurbish a nuclear-power plant nearby.” Iranian medical professionals suspect either Chinese workers in Qom or an Iranian businessman who travelled to China from Qom caused the spread of the coronavirus in Qom.

News reports indicate that a number of high Iranian officials have contracted coronavirus, and I believe at least one or two have died.



Raleigh explains:

Although on Feb. 1 the Iranian government banned its airlines from flying to China, it made an exception for Mahan Air, an unofficial airline for the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps.

The WSJ reported that Mahan Air “had carried out eight flights between Tehran and China between Feb. 1 and Feb. 9 to transfer Chinese and Iranian passengers to their respective home countries.” This explains why so many high-level Iranian officials are infected by the coronavirus, including First Vice President Eshaq Jahangiri and more than 20 lawmakers.



Relying on China for economic development was never a good idea, but it turned out to be more dangerous than we knew.

F@!# China

originally posted by: OG1KenObi
a reply to: tinktinktink

You know the experts have been saying the same crap for weeks. All I'm hearing is just wait in a few weeks the deaths in America will be worse than Italy and Spain. Sorry to tell you but I doubt America will be hit as hard as Italy and Spain. We have better healthcare and a better diet than these countries. I mean the virus has been here since January and we aren't loosing 400-600 a day, and I hope yo God it stays like that. Stop listening and spreading lies, we aren't short on ventilators yet and 99% of Americans that catch it recover at home. It's like some of you people want all this terrible stuff to happen just so you can be right.

a better diet??? What Taco Bell and McDonalds? Lolol

a reply to: tinktinktink

My theory for Italy and Spain are the fact that they are like our immune systems are not equipped to fight off anything anymore because we are quick to take meds.

In this case it's simply that before December or November of last year, this virus had not been found in a human.

That's why it's called, "novel."

Chances are high that it originated in a bat population and was then hybridized in yet another animal population, looks like pangolins presently, and then made the jump to humans. Through a throw of the genetic dice, this little bugger (it's not really alive, per se so calling it a, "bugger," is a bit misleading, it's more like a random bit of computer code than any kind of animal we're familiar with, including bacteria), just happened to hit on the right combination which found humans an ideal host/factory in which to replicate itself.

Due to our modern and interconnected civilization, it spread, and is still spreading, quickly. it is currently in the process of causing all of society to fall to its knees, whether some wish to acknowledge that or not.

One thing is for sure, it's still gonna get a lot worse before it gets better.

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

One thing is for sure, it's still gonna get a lot worse before it gets better.

It's getting eerie out there, real quiet, people are looking at each other suspiciously, it's quite bizarre.

The way it is going it will be like the zombie movies where you can't let anyone in or near you, and defend with force.

We haven't even had the second hand wave yet.

this virus is being spread by social media

The first impression seems to be that you are an unwitting
pessimistic fear monger possibly due to the region you live in,

A lot of the replies you don’t comprehend express the positive optimistic spirit of The majority of Americans.

Some are just trying to say we don’t have to fear and panic because of the Covid19 crisis. They are just saying that this strengthens our resolve to tackle this head on and overcome it, the true spirit of America!

Be strong my friend!






a reply to: Tim2win

NYC seems to be quite infectious place, or are the data sources giving accurate numbers ?

New York US 46094 confirmed - Population estimate : 23 876 155
Shanghai China 485 confirmed - Population estimate : 24 197 000