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William Tyndale - The English Language and the Bible

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posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 01:55 PM
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William Tyndale (1494-1536) died at age 42, strangled and then his body burned at the stake.



His crime? Translating the Bible into English.

When I first read of this man, and later watched a documentary of him when I was a young man his zeal for God and desire to make his word available in English impressed me. All that he went through. The fact the he was willing to risk his life, and finally, lose it to give us the Bible in English imprinted in my mind the importance of this important work.

But why did he have to risk his life to translate the Bible into English and what effect did his translation have on the English language?

During his time the Church still held sway. And it was illegal to print the Bible into the vernacular languages. The priests of the Church had it in Latin, but did not teach Latin to the common people, nor did they make the Bible available to the common people.

To study the time William lived in is an exciting endeavor, when one learns how the Church didn't want the common man to have access to the Bible so that they could read the lies they had been teaching for for a thousand years. And the history of William Tyndale is a history of the beginning of the breaking free of the tyranny of the church, freedom of expression of religion, and of print. And also the rise of the English language as the predominant language in the world. Many do not realize how profoundly Tyndale's translation of the English Bible had influence on making English a predominate language, the influences he had on the works of Shakespeare, and even the King James Bible.

In his time English, as a study by Fred Robinson showed was a strata of languages, having roots in Germanic languages, of the Norwegians, Dutch, and other Scandinavian countries. On top of that strata was French because of the French invasion and conquest at the battle of Hastings. And of course you have the Latin influence because of the Church.

The common Englishman did not even understand basic English, and William Tyndale had to reconcile all of these languages and compile in the best way he could a translation using words the common person would understand when reading.



He was an ordained priest in the Catholic Church, but in his studies he discerned many errors in its teachings and its way of dealing with people. He once stated:

"If God spares my life, I will cause the boy that drives the plow in England to know more of Scriptures than the Pope."

The story of his exile, of his translation of the Bible from the original languages texts to English, and how he smuggled them into England is a story of highest human tradition. He was a true Christian martyr. And thanks to him, and many others like him the Bible is now freely available to everyone, such as you and me.

In the end over 30,000 English language Bibles were smuggled into England, and the spread of God's word in the common tongue of the English began.

In the end Tyndale was betrayed by Henry Phillips seized by imperil authorities, charged of heresy and sentenced to death.

An interesting documentary on William Tyndale and his championship of translating God's word into the vernacular of the common man. Only minutes long but worth the watch for those interested in his interesting history.

They Valued the Bible—Excerpt (William Tyndale)

His last words on the stake before dying were: "Lord! Open the King of England's eyes."

"Within four years, four English translations of the Bible were published in England at the King's behest, including Henry's official Great Bible. All were based on Tyndale's work."- Hamlin & Jones 2010, p. 336.


First Tyndale Bible

Why not open the Bible, if you never have, or haven't in a while. And actually see why people were willing to be burned at the stake to bring its message to the common man. Tyndale risked his life, and spent many years to get the first translation into English. Today all we need to do is push a button, or press our screen from the comfort of our device. And thanks to people like him.

He comes from the tradition of the Lollards. And I hope to expound further upon them in a future thread.

Online Study Bible

edit on 4-11-2019 by EdgeofParadise because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 02:30 PM
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It's just a shame that Tyndale did not rid the Bible of "hel" and "hell." Both showed up in the 1611 KJV, and I've seen them in the near-pagan "Beowulf" as well. The doctrine of Hell has been conflated from four other words, "sheol," "hades," "gehenna" and "tartarus," NONE of which referred to a place of eternal punishment, and heck, two of the words come from Greek mythology/philosophy, which is to say, paganism.


So what is the JW.org position on Hell?



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 02:48 PM
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originally posted by: Lazarus Short
It's just a shame that Tyndale did not rid the Bible of "hel" and "hell." Both showed up in the 1611 KJV, and I've seen them in the near-pagan "Beowulf" as well. The doctrine of Hell has been conflated from four other words, "sheol," "hades," "gehenna" and "tartarus," NONE of which referred to a place of eternal punishment, and heck, two of the words come from Greek mythology/philosophy, which is to say, paganism.


So what is the JW.org position on Hell?


Sparks of light were beginning to emerge from this dark period of spiritual darkness in humankind's history. No doubt Tyndale was among them. Even if he did not understand everything. I doubt he viewed the term hell as it is viewed today as you can see from the quotes below. To answer your questions about the terminology:


Grave

Grave When lowercased, referring to an individual grave; when capitalized, the common grave of mankind, equivalent to the Hebrew “Sheol” and the Greek “Hades.” It is described in the Bible as a symbolic place or condition wherein all activity and consciousness cease.​—Ge 47:30; Ec 9:10; Ac 2:31.


Hades


A Greek word corresponding to the Hebrew word “Sheol.” It is translated “Grave” (capitalized), to distinguish it as the common grave of mankind.​—See GRAVE - Sheol/Hades.


Hell


A word used in the King James Version (as well as in the Catholic Douay Version and most older translations) to translate the Hebrew sheʼohlʹ and the Greek haiʹdes. In the King James Version the word “hell” is rendered from sheʼohlʹ 31 times and from haiʹdes 10 times. This version is not consistent, however, since sheʼohlʹ is also translated 31 times “grave” and 3 times “pit.” In the Douay Version sheʼohlʹ is rendered “hell” 64 times, “pit” once, and “death” once.

In 1885, with the publication of the complete English Revised Version, the original word sheʼohlʹ was in many places transliterated into the English text of the Hebrew Scriptures, though, in most occurrences, “grave” and “pit” were used, and “hell” is found some 14 times. This was a point on which the American committee disagreed with the British revisers, and so, when producing the American Standard Version (1901) they transliterated sheʼohlʹ in all 65 of its appearances. Both versions transliterated haiʹdes in the Christian Greek Scriptures in all ten of its occurrences, though the Greek word Geʹen·na (English, “Gehenna”) is rendered “hell” throughout, as is true of many other modern translations.

Concerning this use of “hell” to translate these original words from the Hebrew and Greek, Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (1981, Vol. 2, p. 187) says: “HADES . . . It corresponds to ‘Sheol’ in the O.T. [Old Testament]. In the A.V. of the O.T. [Old Testament] and N.T. [New Testament], it has been unhappily rendered ‘Hell.’”

Collier’s Encyclopedia (1986, Vol. 12, p. 28) says concerning “Hell”: “First it stands for the Hebrew Sheol of the Old Testament and the Greek Hades of the Septuagint and New Testament. Since Sheol in Old Testament times referred simply to the abode of the dead and suggested no moral distinctions, the word ‘hell,’ as understood today, is not a happy translation.”

It is, in fact, because of the way that the word “hell” is understood today that it is such an unsatisfactory translation of these original Bible words. Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, unabridged, under “Hell” says: “fr[om] . . . helan to conceal.” The word “hell” thus originally conveyed no thought of heat or torment but simply of a ‘covered over or concealed place.’ In the old English dialect the expression “helling potatoes” meant, not to roast them, but simply to place the potatoes in the ground or in a cellar.

The meaning given today to the word “hell” is that portrayed in Dante’s Divine Comedy and Milton’s Paradise Lost, which meaning is completely foreign to the original definition of the word. The idea of a “hell” of fiery torment, however, dates back long before Dante or Milton. The Grolier Universal Encyclopedia (1971, Vol. 9, p. 205) under “Hell” says: “Hindus and Buddhists regard hell as a place of spiritual cleansing and final restoration. Islamic tradition considers it as a place of everlasting punishment.” The idea of suffering after death is found among the pagan religious teachings of ancient peoples in Babylon and Egypt. Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs depicted the “nether world . . . as a place full of horrors, . . . presided over by gods and demons of great strength and fierceness.” Although ancient Egyptian religious texts do not teach that the burning of any individual victim would go on forever, they do portray the “Other World” as featuring “pits of fire” for “the damned.”​—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, by Morris Jastrow, Jr., 1898, p. 581; The Book of the Dead, with introduction by E. Wallis Budge, 1960, pp. 135, 144, 149, 151, 153, 161, 200.

“Hellfire” has been a basic teaching in Christendom for many centuries. It is understandable why The Encyclopedia Americana (1956, Vol. XIV, p. 81) said: “Much confusion and misunderstanding has been caused through the early translators of the Bible persistently rendering the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades and Gehenna by the word hell. The simple transliteration of these words by the translators of the revised editions of the Bible has not sufficed to appreciably clear up this confusion and misconception.” Nevertheless, such transliteration and consistent rendering does enable the Bible student to make an accurate comparison of the texts in which these original words appear and, with open mind, thereby to arrive at a correct understanding of their true significance.​

edit on 4-11-2019 by EdgeofParadise because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-11-2019 by EdgeofParadise because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 02:50 PM
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a reply to: EdgeofParadise

All we know is the dead sea scrolls paint a completely different picture than the fabrication created by King James scholars.



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 02:53 PM
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a reply to: Lazarus Short




He was an ordained priest in the Catholic Church


And that is what probably sealed his fate.

In 1534 Henry VIII broke all ties with The Church Of Rome.



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 03:10 PM
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originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: Lazarus Short




He was an ordained priest in the Catholic Church


And that is what probably sealed his fate.

In 1534 Henry VIII broke all ties with The Church Of Rome.


He was put to death for hersey by the Catholic Church. It was John Stokesley an English Church leader and Bishop of the Catholic Church whom had Tyndale betrayed and eventually put to death to dare defy the Catholic Church.

Interestingly four* years after his death King Henry VIII after breaking ties with the Church of Rome approved of the printing of the Bible in English, and used Tyndale's translation as the source for the translations.
edit on 4-11-2019 by EdgeofParadise because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 03:17 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015
Tyndale was working about a hundred years BEFORE the translators of the 1611 Bible.
The 1611 translators didn't "create" even the English Bible- they just followed on from the old traditions. That's why people should not be obsessively blaming them for any faults they think they detect in the Bible as such. It's just absurd.


edit on 4-11-2019 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 03:26 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: dfnj2015
Tyndale was working about a hundred years BEFORE the translators of the 1611 Bible.
The 1611 transa;tors didn't "create" even the English Bible- they just followed on from the old traditions. That's why people should not be obsessively blaming them for any faults they think they detect in the Bible as such. It's just absurd.



And quite to the contrary of what he asserted the Dead Sea Scrolls confirm that the Bible has been handed down faithfully.

An entire scroll of the book of Isaiah found among the Dead Sea Scrolls and dated to 3 B. C. E., complete, with a few deteriorations were compared to the oldest extant known manuscripts that dated a thousand years later.

The result? There were no changes.


Dead Sea Scroll - Isaiah 53


Do older manuscripts prove that the Bible’s message has been preserved? When the Dead Sea Scrolls were found in 1947, scholars could at last compare the Hebrew Masoretic text to what appeared in Bible scrolls that had been written more than a thousand years earlier. A member of the editorial team of the Dead Sea Scrolls concluded that one scroll “provides irrefutable proof that the transmission of the biblical text through a period of more than one thousand years by the hands of Jewish copyists has been extremely faithful and careful.”



The Chester Beatty Library in Dublin, Ireland, features a collection of papyri that represents nearly every book of the Christian Greek Scriptures, including manuscripts dating from the second century C.E.​—only about 100 years after the Bible was completed. “Although the Papyri supply a wealth of new information on textual detail,” The Anchor Bible Dictionary observes, “they also demonstrate remarkable stability in the transmission history of the biblical text.”

THE RESULT: Rather than corrupting the Bible text, the age and multitude of Bible manuscripts have actually improved it. “No other ancient book has anything like such early and plentiful testimony to its text,” wrote Sir Frederic Kenyon about the Christian Greek Scriptures, “and no unbiased scholar would deny that the text that has come down to us is substantially sound.” And regarding the Hebrew Scriptures, scholar William Henry Green stated: “It may be safely said that no other work of antiquity has been so accurately transmitted.”

Source - The Bible Survived Attempts to Alter Its Message
edit on 4-11-2019 by EdgeofParadise because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 03:46 PM
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a reply to: EdgeofParadise




He was put to death for hersey by the Catholic Church.


I would bet that his execution was at the behest of Henry VIII. Tyndale had made him his enemy.




Not only was William unwilling to leave his translation work (he was now busy translating the Old Testament), but he had previously argued from scripture that divorce was against God’s will, specifically Henry’s divorce of Catherine.

He also had written that, to gain power, recent corrupt popes had manipulated naïve and foolish kings, including Henry. When Henry was informed of these things, his admiration of William turned to disdain.

The king’s agents searched England and Europe with orders to kidnap the translator, but William was well hidden among the merchants in Antwerp.

Eventually Henry gave up his search, but William had made an extremely dangerous enemy, and others would soon succeed where the king had failed to find him


www.plough.com...



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 03:51 PM
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a reply to: alldaylong

That is very true. It could have been the main reason of his execution. The Church considered his death that one of a heritic and no doubt his translation of the Bible into English mattered to them.

It reminds me of the death of John the Baptist. He too condemned Herod's immoral lifestyle, Herod's wife eventually has his head lopped off for it.

Satan was no doubt behind the persecution and death of these righteous men.



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 08:27 PM
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a reply to: EdgeofParadise


And quite to the contrary of what he asserted the Dead Sea Scrolls confirm that the Bible has been handed down faithfully.

An entire scroll of the book of Isaiah found among the Dead Sea Scrolls and dated to 3 B. C. E., complete, with a few deteriorations were compared to the oldest extant known manuscripts that dated a thousand years later.

The result? There were no changes.


Too bad they did not find a copy of Genesis among the Dead Sea Scrolls because there is evidence of tampering with the Masoretic Text through which most of the Old Testament-Hebrew translations were derived.

The Greek Septuagint and the Masoretic Text disagree on the age of six biblical characters of when their first son was born. This is a big deal because with the current Masoretic Text numbers it puts the building of the pyramids of Giza before the Flood and it makes Shem a contemporary of Abraham. If you do a comparison dating of the patriarchs of Genesis with the Masoretic text, Greek Septuagint, Samaritan Pentateuch and the works of Flavius Josephus you’ll find that the Masoretic text was the only one to drop the 100’s in all six of these patriarch’s age when their first son was born.

The six biblical characters in question:

Arphaxad: Masoretic vs Septuagint = 35 verses 135
Salah: Masoretic vs Septuagint = 30 verses 130
Eber: Masoretic vs Septuagint = 34 verses 134
Peleg: Masoretic vs Septuagint = 30 verses 130
Reu: Masoretic vs Septuagint = 32 verses 132
Serug: Masoretic vs Septuagint = 30 verses 130

This gives an extra 600 years to history which corrects the problem with the death of Shem and the building of the pyramids.

Go to the link below to see a table comparison between the Masoretic, Samaritan Pentateuch and Septuagint.

Genealogies of Genesis

This information was obtained from the author who created the following video. The video is very entertaining and quite educational. I want a new translation with the correction now.




posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 11:57 PM
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a reply to: EdgeofParadise

books were incredibly expensive back in the day, often a years wage for the person transcribing them.

any wonder the church wanted them locked up? it wasnt to keep the poor people from reading them, it was to keep them from getting stolen.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 12:27 AM
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a reply to: stormson

No. They didn't translate them into the language of the common tongue. They only kept it in Latin a dead language, and only the clergy were allowed to learn Latin. It was to have a stranglehold, or, monopoly on the truth. Tyndale was not the only one hounded down and put to death for translating the Bible. Many others were burned alive, beheaded, and strangled during the Inquisition.

All one had to do to receive the death penalty from the Roman Catholic Church was to have a single page of the Bible in his/her possession.

And yes books were expensive.

That reminds me of the story I read when a child about a girl who saved up all her money to buy a Bible. I actually just look that up in Google, to see if the story came up, it was decades ago I read it. I found it right away though...

I hope I am not quoting to much of the text...I don't know how many will open the link and really believe the story is worth the read...


Mary Jones and Her Bible

In short it is the story of a girl named Mary who loved the Bible so much she saved up six years and then walked 25 miles to the nearest place to buy one. The story here did not relate how much it cost, but from my childhood memory it cost much much much more than what the girl had saved over the six years. But the man could not refuse to give her a new Bible, at great cost to himself and never told her how much it really cost him.

It was because of this girl's love for the Bible and her story that the British and Foreign Bible Society was formed to help print Bible's at reasonable prices for the common person.


Many years ago, a little girl lived with her mother in a small grey stone cottage in the Welsh countryside. Her home was in a green valley in the shadow of a mountain, and from there you could sometimes see the sea in the far distance. Her father was a weaver who worked very hard to support his family but sadly he died when Mary was young.

‘Mary, Mary!’ called a distant voice.

‘Coming, Mother ...’ Mary Jones knew what was expected of a nine-year-old girl. Without grumbling, she would do her share of the chores around her home. She would scrub the floors, feed the chickens, cook and help to keep the house tidy.

On Sunday mornings, Mary dressed in her Sunday best, would walk to the little chapel in the village two miles away. At the front, the minister would open a large, black, leather-bound book. As he began to read, Mary would marvel at the wonderful words and store them up in her heart. After the service, she would go cautiously up to look at the impressive book. There were two words printed in gold on its cover. Mary guessed that these said ‘Holy Bible’ because she had heard the minister mention the name of the book. The words inside looked odd to her. ‘How can anyone ever make sense of these squiggles?’ she thought. ‘Oh, how I wish I could read this book for myself, or even have one for my own!’

Then, on Sunday morning, the minister, announced that a school was to open in the village. Mary was excited. ‘Now I can learn to read,’ she said, ‘and make sense of those strange marks in the book at chapel.’

The schoolmaster, Mr Evans, and his wife moved into a farmhouse not far from Mary’s home. Mary worked extra hard to finish her chores quickly so that she could go to the Evans’ house to learn to read. Her parents saw how hard their daughter worked at both schoolwork and her duties at home.

Months passed and seasons changed, until at last Mary was asked to read from the chapel Bible one Sunday morning. She was not very tall, so a special wooden box for her to stand on so that she could see the words properly. Now the squiggles were no longer strange to her. She read perfectly. Mr and Mrs Jones were very proud of their daughter.

After the service, Mary rushed up to her mother. ‘I must have a Bible, I must have a Bible!’ she cried. Her mother gently placed his hand on her shoulder. ‘But Mary, Bibles are expensive, and we haven’t much money.’‘

I know, I know, that’s why I am going to save up for one, and I don’t care how long it takes me. I’ll do jobs for other people, I’ll save all my pennies, I’ll do anything just to have my own Bible.’

And that is exactly what Mary did. For six long years she saved all she could until the day came when she had enough money to buy a Bible. Mr Evans had told her that there was a man in a town called Bala who had a number of Bibles. Mary, now fifteen, told her mother that she was going to walk to Bala.

Her mother exclaimed, ‘Daughter, that’s nearly twenty-five miles away!’ But there was no changing Mary’s mind – she had waited too long for that. So, with her purse of money and some bread and cheese tied up in a bundle, she set off.The journey to Bala seemed endless. Mary followed many paths, crossed valleys and streams and found her way around hills. As her weariness grew and her aching limbs seemed almost too much to bear, she muttered words of encouragement to herself. ‘Come on, Mary, not much further now,’ she thought. Eventually she came to the brow of a hill, from which she could see the edge of a town. Dusk was falling, and candlelight had begun to flicker in cottage windows. Mary's heart pounded with excitement. Here was Bala at last! She recognised it from Mr Evans’ clear description. With renewed energy and a new determination, she set off again down the hill.

Mary asked for directions to find Mr Charles. After knocking on several doors and asking for directions, she found his house. She ran up the garden path and knocked loudly on the large oak door.

As it was opened, Mary made her request for a Bible, the words tumbling over themselves in her eagerness: ‘I’ve walked twenty-five miles to get here, I’ve saved up for six years to buy a Bible, I’ve got the money here, you can count it if you like – please can I have a Bible?’

Mr Charles was taken aback. ‘You had better come in and tell me all about it, but first you must have something to eat. You must be famished.’ He smiled kindly and beckoned the housekeeper to take Mary to the kitchen.

After she had eaten, Mary told Mr Charles everything. He was moved by her account. And he held out to her a brand new Bible. Mary stared at it for a long moment before taking it with both hands. Then she expressed her heartfelt thanks.

The next morning, Mary, clutching her treasured possession, said goodbye to Mr Charles and started on her way home. She arrived to a grand reception. It seemed as if everyone was there. Her mother threw her arms around her and hugged her. Nearby stood Mr Evans and the minister, smiling broadly and clapping their hands. Everyone was cheering and wanted Mary to show them her Bible. As she held the book up for all to see, she murmured a few quiet words. ‘Thank you, Jesus, thank you Mr Charles,’ she said.

In his study, Mr Charles remembered how the young girl had disappeared over the brow of a hill still holding the new Bible to her chest. He began to think of all the other Mary Joneses who must be wanting Bibles, not only in Wales but in England, Scotland, Ireland, and even in other more distant lands.

In 1804, the British and Foreign Bible Society was formed by Thomas Charles and other important men in response to needs which stories like that of Mary Jones had brought to light.


edit on 5-11-2019 by EdgeofParadise because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 05:16 AM
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a reply to: EdgeofParadise

This individual translates into another language therefore enabling countless others to read and be led astray by the majorically nonsense it spews out then is it any wonder god fated him his destiny for his role as a recruiting officer for the great deception?

Just another lost soul trying to be remembered post life.

What a joke.



posted on Nov, 7 2019 @ 09:32 AM
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originally posted by: CthruU
a reply to: EdgeofParadise

This individual translates into another language therefore enabling countless others to read and be led astray by the majorically nonsense it spews out then is it any wonder god fated him his destiny for his role as a recruiting officer for the great deception?

Just another lost soul trying to be remembered post life.

What a joke.


"Great deception"? You should explain to the unwashed masses...



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 11:22 AM
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a reply to: EdgeofParadise

The Bible was and still is exploited for political power.

The Priests of old derived their power through claiming to be the only way the masses might know the will of God.

Once the bible was translated from Latin to Common Languages that power eroded.

It reminds me of the Gospel of Thomas where Jesus apparently discounts the value of orthodox religion:

"the kingdom of god is inside you and all around you. Not in palaces of wood and stone. Split a wooden stick and I am there and lift a stone and you shall find me."



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