Vermont opens door for gender-affirming surgery for transgender youth

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Boadicea

I cannot find statistics right now,

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...


This may help. It covers what you said.

Surgical site infections occur frequently among patients undergoing genital reconstruction operations for gender dysphoria. Ideally, future studies of patients who develop SSIs in undergoing these operations will be performed prospectively, so that these SSIs can be categorized more effectively. Future research should focus on determining the ideal regimen of antimicrobial prophylaxis for patients undergoing these procedures, and on identifying the operative stages associated with the highest risk for SSI. Currently used risk adjustment scores for other types of SSI (e.g., National Nosocomial Infections Surveillance risk index) do not appear to be appropriate for genital reconstruction operations.

Unfortunately, it appears they need to research methods to avoid SSIs with these 'new' types of surgeries, but they are working on it and it can only get better.

a reply to: InTheLight

Problem is we are not just male and female, we are also spirit and intellect, which you nor I can feel what another is feeling or desires.

Yes. We are physical, mental, emotional and spiritual beings...

And you keep making the same point as me. No one can feel or know what another feels. And that includes what it feels like to be the opposite sex. There is no source for that knowledge. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

At the absolute most, one can say that they identify with societal gender roles and stereotypes. At most.

At best, we can say that we are all unique individuals, perfectly imperfect, with varying amounts and ratios and proportions of factors -- including both "male" and "female" -- all of which combine for a glorious whole.

We have also agreed that children are too young to surgically transition. Can we also agree that children who have not gone through puberty have absolutely no idea what it is to even be a mature adult of their own sex, much less the opposite sex?

Let's focus there. That's what the OP is about.

Can we agree on one more thing: In an ideal world, everyone could and would be expressing themselves as they wish, as they are, without the risks and dangers of medicalization and of a healthy and whole body?

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: InTheLight

Problem is we are not just male and female, we are also spirit and intellect, which you nor I can feel what another is feeling or desires.

Yes. We are physical, mental, emotional and spiritual beings...

And you keep making the same point as me. No one can feel or know what another feels. And that includes what it feels like to be the opposite sex. There is no source for that knowledge. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

At the absolute most, one can say that they identify with societal gender roles and stereotypes. At most.

At best, we can say that we are all unique individuals, perfectly imperfect, with varying amounts and ratios and proportions of factors -- including both "male" and "female" -- all of which combine for a glorious whole.

We have also agreed that children are too young to surgically transition. Can we also agree that children who have not gone through puberty have absolutely no idea what it is to even be a mature adult of their own sex, much less the opposite sex?

Let's focus there. That's what the OP is about.

Can we agree on one more thing: In an ideal world, everyone could and would be expressing themselves as they wish, as they are, without the risks and dangers of medicalization and of a healthy and whole body?

When I was young I had a slant towards being athletic even beating some boys at athletic games, such as rope climbing. I also wanted to play more so with boys' toys (particularly woodworking, guns, robots and cars) than girls' toys, which I found boring. Tell me, Bod, when they called me a 'tom boy' back then was I exhibiting masculine traits or was I just being me?

Today’s queer tomboy reclaims some of the altered gender norms that were once promoted among (white) antebellum girls. Of course, women of various sexual identities continue to be tomboys into adulthood (and many queer women were never tomboys). But Elise’s take—that adolescent gender ambiguity gets left behind when heterosexual teenage girls abandon tomboy ways—suggests that by providing a label that is free from the mandates and judgment of sexual orientation, the tomboy demonstrates that gender expression is not necessarily tied to sexual orientation.

www.theatlantic.com...

All I can advise you to do Bod, is when you go into women's public bathrooms is to make sure you carry a can of mace at all times.

a reply to: Sillyolme

Thank you -- that does help:

Conclusions: More than 50% of patients who underwent genital reconstruction operations developed an SSI at some point during the genital reconstruction process. Surgical site infections are more common in FTM than in MTF reconstruction operations, and for both FTM and MTF, SSIs are associated independently with an increased frequency of total operative procedures and encounters.

I haven't finished reading the entire report yet. Just thought I'd share that much for everyone.

The study recommends specific protocols for specific procedures, which makes sense. One-size-fits-all seldom fits all. Hopefully that's been done -- improved protocols. Especially with the superbugs invading hospitals and healthcare settings.

If it were someone I'd knew, I'd be getting them a good supply of colloidal silver and silver soap... won't interfere with antibiotics, and there's some clinical evidence that antibiotics and silver work in synergy to make both exponentially more effective. Curad has a line of first aid products with silver -- gels, bandages, gauze dressings. It works.

a reply to: GreenGunther

Too bad this does not say that.

Hey guys the band wagon is on the corner. Why don't y'all just jump on so we can go for a ride?

a reply to: InTheLight

When I was young I had a slant towards being athletic even beating some boys at athletic games, such as rope climbing. I also wanted to play more so with boys' toys (particularly woodworking, guns, robots and cars) than girls' toys, which I found boring. Tell me, Bod, when they called me a 'tom boy' back then was I exhibiting masculine traits or was I just being me?

Well, don't get mad at me for misgendering... I can only assume that you are speaking to being a girl playing and partaking in "masculine" activities from the context, much like me... we were both being ourselves!!! My little sister and I only had boys to play with. We played their games and they played our games. I ran roughshod over the guys on the basketball court thanks to my freakishly long legs and arms. I probably "earned" more merit badges than most boy scouts do. I can still build a kickass fire at night that will still be giving off heat in the morning. I do all kinds of "guy" things.

So by today's ridiculous stereotypes, I'm still a tomboy! Or something... whatever the adult equivalent would be. I don't conform to gender roles and stereotypes, and very very few people do.

I really thought we as a society had put this stupidity behind us...

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: InTheLight

When I was young I had a slant towards being athletic even beating some boys at athletic games, such as rope climbing. I also wanted to play more so with boys' toys (particularly woodworking, guns, robots and cars) than girls' toys, which I found boring. Tell me, Bod, when they called me a 'tom boy' back then was I exhibiting masculine traits or was I just being me?

Well, don't get mad at me for misgendering... I can only assume that you are speaking to being a girl playing and partaking in "masculine" activities from the context, much like me... we were both being ourselves!!! My little sister and I only had boys to play with. We played their games and they played our games. I ran roughshod over the guys on the basketball court thanks to my freakishly long legs and arms. I probably "earned" more merit badges than most boy scouts do. I can still build a kickass fire at night that will still be giving off heat in the morning. I do all kinds of "guy" things.

So by today's ridiculous stereotypes, I'm still a tomboy! Or something... whatever the adult equivalent would be. I don't conform to gender roles and stereotypes, and very very few people do.

I really thought we as a society had put this stupidity behind us...

Back then the situation was hiding the serious issue of gender identity for others, not in our cases because we were sexualized into our female roles which we accepted or naturally followed. Now some in society want to dismiss gender identity as not a real thing even after the child/young person is exposed to what others decide to be their path to their true sexual identity which is physical traits at birth. The point of the tomboy story, Bod, is just that gender identity does not match sexual orientation.

You will be forgiven for misgendering, Bod, but not for any harmful discriminatory and bias against something for which I think you do not understand, but which you fear.

a reply to: InTheLight

The point of the tomboy story, Bod, is just that gender identity does not match sexual orientation.

Because "gender identity" is based on a faulty premise. Obviously. We proved it. Lots of folks prove it's a faulty premise every single day.

You will be forgiven for misgendering, Bod, but not for any harmful discriminatory and bias against something for which I think you do not understand, but which you fear.

Fear... yeah, I'm afraid. And not just for the reasons you think. I got some more bad health news yesterday. All related back to a surgery in 2000. So there's my confirmation bias. I know about adverse outcomes that have lifelong negative effects. And I wouldn't wish this on anyone.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: new_here

Also, if a male child takes puberty blockers, the subsequent surgery to create a faux vagina is much more invasive and complicated because there is not enough penile tissue due to the stunted growth of the penis. Part of the colon must be used. This adds another layer of risks during the surgery, and a possibility of lifelong issues with foul discharge due to the flora that is native to that tissue.

Yes -- thank you for adding this.

Jazz Jennings had this problem, having been given puberty blockers so young that there was not adequate tissue for the simpler procedure. Jazz had to go back for complications at least a couple of times.

And, yes, the very nature of the material then used has its own issues and complications -- as you noted.

Here is something else of note:
Jazz Jennings reports that he has zero libido. Jazz was given hormone blockers so early that he never went thru puberty and his sexuality never developed at all. He has reported that he has never had an orgasm. No libido. This person was essentially robbed of a part of the adult human experience, and couldn't have possibly known what he was giving up as a child. Now they've created a faux vagina that he must take care of to keep it from closing up, and for what purpose? He can't give birth, he has no desire for sex. Someone told him that would make him a real woman? Ridiculous.

Puberty blockers are wrong for so many reasons.

a reply to: new_here

Puberty blockers are wrong for so many reasons.

Loss of libido, and loss of fertility/sterility.

Especially for girls going on to cross-hormone therapy (testosterone), a complete hysterectomy is pretty much required at some point, due to side effects from the testosterone.

These kids aren't old enough to understand what they are sacrificing. And no one has the wisdom or authority to make that choice for them.

This is pretty outrageous.

What should also really terrify everyone is that the number of those *identifying* as "female" far, far outweighs those *identifying* as "males". Terrifying.

Completely contradicts the narrative which claims that media glorifies masculinity and influences youngsters thus. Clearly rubbish, eh?

originally posted by: AnakinWayneII
This is pretty outrageous.

What should also really terrify everyone is that the number of those *identifying* as "female" far, far outweighs those *identifying* as "males". Terrifying.

This is true for the adults suddenly finding their "inner woman;" and it seems most of these are autogynephiles... in other words, it's a sexual fetish.

But for the kids, it' seems to be the girls who are identifying as boys or even nonbinary at astronomical rates, and especially girls on the autism spectrum.

Completely contradicts the narrative which claims that media glorifies masculinity and influences youngsters thus. Clearly rubbish, eh?

Yes -- rubbish. Even for the many girls now identifying as transgender, I don't think it's because they want to be men so much as they don't want the attention from creepy men. And perhaps even more crucial, they don't want to be the sexualized version of a woman that is plastered all over the media.

a reply to: DanDanDat

It matters because when you go through puberty it's confusing for even the most well-adjusted person, but as you get past it you grow out of it.

For those who not as well-adjusted, that confusion can look like a lot of things, including actual gender dysphoria which it actually may not be, but in a society like ours which is increasingly eager to pull that trigger and affirm that you are gender dysphoric out of a desire to not be cruel, imagine what happens when you grow out of it if you weren't and now discover you've horribly mutilated yourself out of all hope for any kind of normalcy?

Is it any wonder the suicide rates for transgenders are so high?

a reply to: InTheLight

You were being you.

I was being me.

We are both still women though.

I thank God every day I wasn't born in this day and age or else someone might have tried to convince me I was some man trapped in a woman's body. Just because I never cared overmuch and still don't for the traditional feminine ideals doesn't mean I'm actually a boy all up in here. It just means I don't enjoy any of that girlish nonsense. I prefer books to shoes, sports to clothes, etc. But at the end of the day, I still wanted to meet my man and settle into a nice like like most other girls I know.

Having someone convince me that all my preferences meant I was really a boy would have robbed me some of the greatest joys in my life I've ever known.

a reply to: ketsuko

Having someone convince me that all my preferences meant I was really a boy would have robbed me some of the greatest joys in my life I've ever known.

Well said -- bravo!!!

I would have been in the same position as a girl, as would my younger sister. And how many other girls???

This is terrible.



Worst part is....Medicaid.... OUR TAX DOLLARS going to assist in paying for mutilating our children? Are you kidding me?

This is disgusting.

They aren't even fully developed mentally.

I'm beyond shocked.

originally posted by: Boadicea
So many reasons. For one, these kids are not mentally or emotionally mature enough to make decisions that will have permanent consequences.

but there not your kids; and their parents are making the decision to allow it or not. I don't want the government to tell me how I must raise children; so unfortunately that means I can't tell other parents how to raise theirs.

I am a firm believer in free will and personal autonomy, including/especially in medical matters. Adults are free to make their own decisions and I would not try to stop an adult from choosing such surgery.

But you will stop an adult from raising their children as they see fit too?

a reply to: DanDanDat

I don't know.

What's your opinion on the lesbian couple who cut off their 9-year-old's penis because they claimed he wanted to be a girl, and then later on they stabbed him 12 times and cut him to pieces because he reminded the one of her father?

I guess that's fine because we allow people to parent how they wish?

Yes, at some point you allow people freedom to make parenting decisions as they choose, but at other times, I'd guess that genital mutilation and murder are sort of parenting decisions we might want to step in a prevent? And, of course, just because you don't allow certain surgical procedures to be done below a certain age doesn't mean you're preventing the family from affirming the gender choices of the child, too.

a reply to: ketsuko

Not even comparable; gender-affirming surgery is performed by a qualified surgeon under strict hospital protocols and procedures.

That you need to scrap the bottom of the barrel to make your argument; pretty much says it all.

a reply to: ketsuko

this is like saying that if some psycho cut their childs face off and made a mask out of it that we should ban facelifts.

taking the actions of an outright psychopath who literally butchered their child and trying to apply it in any way to trans people and the things they go through is the second most ridiculous thing you lot have done this week. The first was, just let me remind you, rallying behind David "Queen Elizabeth Is An Alien Lizard" Icke, because at some point in his nonsensical ramblings he happened to say something that aligned with your obsessions.
You're so far out of your depth it's honestly going beyond hilarious and reaching pitiable.
Get Help.