Alabama judge allows lawsuit that names aborted fetus as co-plaintiff.

finance.yahoo.com...

Thanks to those nice personhood laws, we have this rather weird lawsuit in the making in an Alabama court. The guy is suing the maker of an abortion drug along with the clinic who provided an abortion on his then 16 year old girlfriend.... with the dead fetus ( just might be the wrong term to use since the abortion was done in the sixth week of pregnancy!) as a co-plaintiff in a wrongful death lawsuit. So, not only does the judge feel that the father should be able to sue because his girlfriend decided not to have a baby at 16, but that the aborted fetus should also be able to sue..
Question here, if this lawsuit were to turn in favor of the man and the aborted fetus and it causes other women to be unable to obtain an abortion because the clinics and drug makers don't want to be sued by angry men and dead fetuses....
can the family of the women turn around and sue the father and the dead fetus if the women is forced to carry the pregnancy to term on the father's demands and she ends up dying from the pregnancy complications for wrongful death? can a women sue the fetus that almost killed her because it was too stupid to know that it should journey into the uterus and implant itself instead of in a fullopian tube?

I ain't even gonna bring up the fact that at the time of the abortion, she was a 16 year old high school student and he was a 19 year old unemployed man with no means to support a kid!!

Abortion rights groups expressed alarm, saying the Alabama judge’s decision last month sets a dangerous precedent at a time when the idea of “fetal rights” — which recognize embryos and fetuses as separate from the women who carry them — is gaining currency in state legislatures, courts and law enforcement agencies. In one New Jersey case, a mother lost custody of her child when she had a vaginal birth instead of the C-section her doctors insisted was necessary. In others, pregnant women who drank or took drugs — both illegal and prescribed — and then had miscarriages were accused of child abuse. And dozens of states have passed fetal homicide laws that treat the unborn as a separate entity from the woman carrying them.

www.washingtonpost.com...

In every other country, maternal deaths have been steadily decreasing, except the US where they've doubled in the past two decades.
www.healthaffairs.org...
any man who decides to use legal means to prevent a women from having an abortion should also be willing to sign a statement right there in front of a judge that if the pregnancy he is preventing results in the death of a women, he accepts responsibility for her death and will face manslaughter charges!! since, they want to force women to take on the risk of death, they should be willing to take the same kind of gamble and accept that they will be charged!

a reply to: dawnstar

I read this story yesterday, and I just couldn't believe it.

I also learned that Alabama wants to basically make abortions completely illegal no matter what.

Honestly, if this man really wanted to have a child, maybe he should have saved his teenaged sex cravings for someone he actually felt a connection with and was married to. Obviously his relationship with this girl at the time was trivial if she wasn't even going to fathom having a baby at 16! He was 19 at the time, he's an adult, he should mark this up as a reality of life, you can't control other peoples lives the way you want because you can't wrap your junk or pull out, she's not a walking incubator to just pop out children. Selfish prick.

a reply to: dawnstar

It also makes me cringe at the thought that any such "rights" established for fathers would apply equally to rapists... could you imagine if one day hospital rape kits/examinations mandating pregnancy tests for the victims to ensure and guarantee any parental "rights" for the rapist???

a reply to: strongfp

This was something I impressed strongly on my son when he was a teenager. I made it clear that birth control is never 100%, and he shouldn't be engaging in any activities that would make him a father unless and until he was ready to be a father. Fortunately, my son has a strong sense of responsibility and took that responsibility seriously... unfortunately, he has taken it so seriously, I'm still waiting for grandbabies!!!

a reply to: Boadicea

I'm in the same boat, I harped so much about not producing any kids till their were financially ready and sure about the women, I will probably die without any grandkids...

oh, well, guess it's better than having to play full time mommy to my grandkids because neither my son or the mother of the child just wasn't prepared.

Totally anit-abortion here and I get the issue of the father. I am not sure this lawsuit is the right approach. However, as long as you are willing to say that the father should have zero parental legal say in whether his child should live, you must agree as a pro-"choice", the choice part should apply to all parties.

For example, if the father demands an abortion, so that his life isn't "ruined" and the mother refuses, she should have to sign a waiver of all child support from the father, correct? i.e. you can't just take away the choice to prevent 'ruining' someones life without their consent.

I mean, he just might not be ready to provide a proper life for that child and the choice to kill and avoid responsibility should at least be offered in a monetary sense to the father, right?

originally posted by: dawnstar
with the dead fetus ( just might be the wrong term to use since the abortion was done in the sixth week of pregnancy!)

What else could it be?

You are alive until you are dead... period.

a reply to: Bone75

an embryo??

After the 8th week, your baby is called a fetus instead of an embryo.

my.clevelandclinic.org...

a reply to: dawnstar

This one is for the boys!

They didn't even bother to write my real Dad in on my birth certificate and I had to go through life like that. This year I went to all the trouble to get him written into it and I feel very proud. Even after all these years I am desparate to go and see him and my life has been very broken without a dad.

Men need to take more responsibility, but SO DO WOMEN. It takes two to tango. Interesting that now women are allowed to have abortions hardly any Western babies are being born at all. We are dying out very quickly indeed.

Once you start unbalancing everything it is you who pay the price, sometimes the price is the cost of your very existence.

We are dying out because obviously we are making these choices to die out. Our culture competers for economic and political power and dominance are enjoying the spectacle. We are doing all their dirty work for them, even allowing them to come here in their millions!

Your arguments are ultimately self defeating. You are acting like vicious dogs over a bone with those you once had relationships and children with. To prevent one rapist's child being born you extinguish your very existence by this reasoning you worship like so called freedom. You really are only destroying you.

The whole point of nature is to try and carry on, to pass on your genes. You guys are doing the very opposite. You deliberately destroy your future genes. See, the women here who have told their children NOT TO HAVE KIDS and procreate? Great advice if you want to die out. Now you got no grand children and lonely kids. When they are old they will have one nurse to a hundred in the care homes, that's if they are lucky and don't die neglected on the streets once they get too weak to function in our crazy up tempo digital society that is certainly not older people friendly. As you are, when you go to the care home it will be one nurse to about twenty I guess. Could have been much better than that, but you have no thought for such trivial matters.

Go ahead, sisters. Wipe your culture out. You are doing a great job. If it happens then it is meant to happen and we really have become too evil for the earth to tolerate any longer and it is gently putting us to sleep via our cherished women folk who have a day all of their own now. Sorry, but it is a kind of killing and letting the embryo pay for your error. What other kind of karma do you really expect? Sorry to be hard on you, but you need it.

Easy skanking, sisters!

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: dawnstar
with the dead fetus ( just might be the wrong term to use since the abortion was done in the sixth week of pregnancy!)

What else could it be?

You are alive until you are dead... period.

I'm certainly not pro abortion, but most Americans do not agree with your position.

Not only that, when there is no room for compromise, or discussion, it is virtually impossible to come up with a solution.

a reply to: dawnstar

LOL! I guess we're just stuck between that proverbial rock and a hard place, eh?

I wouldn't do anything different though. He's a great guy and makes me proud. And I bet you feel the same!

a reply to: Malak777

funny, you are knocking me for telling my kids to be carefull and make sure they don't have kids they are financially ready, till they are sure that the women they chose to breed are women they are fairly sure they will want to spend their life with, ya know, women who WON'T PUT THEM THROUGH THE CHILD SUPPORT HELL!!!
and yet what I am hearing from the conservative side all the time...
well, if the women couldn't support the kid, she shouldn't have had them!!!

get real here!! if the continuance of the human race depends on women being willing to raise their kids in poverty, or in abusive relationships, or as second rate citizens, then we have a bigger problem than just the attitude of women!!!

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Malak777


and yet what I am hearing from the conservative side all the time...
well, if the women couldn't support the kid, she shouldn't have had them!!!

I've literally never heard anyone suggest that.

Do any of you care about the dead baby?

Chillin’ in its womb, then all of a sudden a power tube started suctioning its limbs off

Is that the way for anything to die? Much less a human...

The question I keep seeing here is, what if the mother dies? That’s a hypothetical, the fact is, an human entity, with a specific DNA sequence was sucked through a tube and is no more.

Side questions

Should high school seniors and freshman date?

That age difference is the one year anniversary of a senior and a freshman dating?

Are you a solid on stance? Does it change if you want to feel morally superior when arguing that removing a life form is a ‘choice’ not murder?

originally posted by: Mach2

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: dawnstar
with the dead fetus ( just might be the wrong term to use since the abortion was done in the sixth week of pregnancy!)

What else could it be?

You are alive until you are dead... period.

I'm certainly not pro abortion, but most Americans do not agree with your position.

Not only that, when there is no room for compromise, or discussion, it is virtually impossible to come up with a solution.

Is there some secret state of limbo between alive and dead that I'm unaware of?

a reply to: SocratesJohnson

in this case, it was a 6 week embryo the was terminated through a medical abortion... thus the drug company being sued.

Medical abortion can be done using the following medications:

Oral mifepristone (Mifeprex) and oral misoprostol (Cytotec). This is the most common type of medical abortion. These medications are usually taken within seven weeks of the first day of your last period.

Mifepristone (mif-uh-PRIS-tone) blocks the hormone progesterone, causing the lining of the uterus to thin and preventing the embryo from staying implanted and growing. Misoprostol (my-so-PROS-tol), a different kind of medication, causes the uterus to contract and expel the embryo through the vagina.

www.mayoclinic.org...

when successful, no suction is needed.

originally posted by: SocratesJohnson
Do any of you care about the dead baby?

Chillin’ in its womb, then all of a sudden a power tube started suctioning its limbs off

Is that the way for anything to die? Much less a human...

The question I keep seeing here is, what if the mother dies? That’s a hypothetical, the fact is, an human entity, with a specific DNA sequence was sucked through a tube and is no more.

It's not that ppl don't care about dead babies.

Many don't see it as black and white as you do.

Some are against abortion in the third trimester, for example, because they see the fetus as viable, and sentient by that point.

Is a fetus a baby a week after the egg is fertilized? A month?

Just because you believe one way, doesn't mean everyone agrees.

I'm not putting you down for your views at all. Just pointing out that everyone doesn't see it the same. That doesn't make them evil.

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Mach2

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: dawnstar
with the dead fetus ( just might be the wrong term to use since the abortion was done in the sixth week of pregnancy!)

What else could it be?

You are alive until you are dead... period.

I'm certainly not pro abortion, but most Americans do not agree with your position.

Not only that, when there is no room for compromise, or discussion, it is virtually impossible to come up with a solution.

Is there some secret state of limbo between alive and dead that I'm unaware of?

Is it "alive" the instant of fertilization?

I don't think so. There is no specific time when an egg becomes a being. That's where people make conclusions that their conscience can live with.

originally posted by: Mach2

originally posted by: SocratesJohnson
Do any of you care about the dead baby?

Chillin’ in its womb, then all of a sudden a power tube started suctioning its limbs off

Is that the way for anything to die? Much less a human...

The question I keep seeing here is, what if the mother dies? That’s a hypothetical, the fact is, an human entity, with a specific DNA sequence was sucked through a tube and is no more.

It's not that ppl don't care about dead babies.

Many don't see it as black and white as you do.

Some are against abortion in the third trimester, for example, because they see the fetus as viable, and sentient by that point.

Is a fetus a baby a week after the egg is fertilized? A month?

Just because you believe one way, doesn't mean everyone agrees.

I'm not putting you down for your views at all. Just pointing out that everyone doesn't see it the same. That doesn't make them evil.

It is killing a life. All science agrees that "it" is alive. There is no viewpoint discrepancy on that. The viewpoint is whether you are ok with killing that life and what kind of life you categorize it. Is it a human life? A lizard life? Is a fetus a nondescript, non-human life? That is the only area up for contention.

As an example, think of a kangaroo. The "fetus" takes an interesting course of action and leaves the womb to be raised in an exterior environment. The "fetus" (clearly alive - if you argue otherwise you are just an idiot) , is 2 grams for grey kangaroo. 2 grams.