My latest thinking on what happens to a person after they die

I think our omnipotent God of unconditional love allows everyone to enter the gates of heaven to experience eternal heavenly bliss regardless of our earthly sins or how we practiced or not practiced our religions. The problem is when we die we face the light of God and look into His infinite beauty. For many people looking into the face of God is too difficult and they turn away. When this happens a person is tortured by demons of their own creation. We are our own worse critics. There are moments where we can atone for our own negative self-image and turn back into the light to finally experience eternal heavenly bliss. Or we keep turning away from God and continue to travel down the path to reincarnation tortured and tormented by each step suffering the most painful experiences imaginable. The final result being the endless cycle of death and rebirth mercilessly continues with never ending suffering as we are reborn into a body of someone living in New Jersey.

a reply to: dfnj2015

I see it slightly different. . .
I see a thinking mind fades out of existence, only being kept alive by those that remember it.
And a physical body, that starts to rot away.

I have not yet taken a position on reincarnation.
Interestingly, (from my readings on the subject) the whole idea of reincarnation is for us to live better lives, to the point of (reaching nirvana, becoming a Buddha/ Kahuna) living a perfect life.

a reply to: dfnj2015

You do know there are people on this very forum who don’t want that
Who have stated if God is real they don’t want a relationship with Him and you think God is going to deny their freewill and force them into a relationship

That makes no sense at all

It makes more sense that a person that doesn’t want God simply stops existing
Is erased from Gods memory, become not even a memory

a reply to: dfnj2015

I think your description is all fantasy. Nothing in the Bible points to what you are saying in any way at all.

I believe when we die, we DIE. There is nothing left of us. From dust we came and to dust we return until the Resurrection. That is what the Bible says happens.

However, I believe we are recorded and G-D will resurrect all of us, just as the Bible says. For us it will be like going to sleep and then waking up again. That is the whole point of why G-D resurrected Jesus, to show us it can be done and that it is real.

We do not go to Heaven. We never will. In both the OT and NT we are informed specifically that Heaven is not for us. The Bible states that we will be resurrected on a new earth, as the old will perish in fire. It describes this very specifically in Revelation. G-D shall eventually come to be with people on the new earth in the New Jerusalem that will descend from out of the sky.

If you are a Christian believing in going to Heaven when you die is GNOSTIC. It does not say that anywhere in the Bible. Jesus told us G-D is Spirit. The visions of Him are of something so bright HE can not be seen. His throne has four Creatures surrounding It:

Revelation 4: 1-11,

4 After these things I saw a door standing open in heaven. I heard the first voice like a trumpet speaking to me. It said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must happen after this.” 2 Instantly, I came under the Spirit’s power. I saw a throne in heaven, and someone was sitting on it. 3 The one sitting there looked like gray quartz and red quartz. There was a rainbow around the throne which looked like an emerald. 4 Around that throne were 24 other thrones, and on these thrones sat 24 leaders wearing white clothes. They had gold crowns on their heads. 5 Lightning, noise, and thunder came from the throne. Seven flaming torches were burning in front of the throne. These are the seven spirits of God. 6 In front of the throne, there was something like a sea of glass as clear as crystal. In the center near the throne and around the throne were four living creatures covered with eyes in front and in back. 7 The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like a young bull, the third had a face like a human, and the fourth was like a flying eagle. 8 Each of the four living creatures had six wings and were covered with eyes, inside and out. Without stopping day or night they were singing, “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, who is, and who is coming.” 9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor, and thanks to the one who sits on the throne, to the one who lives forever and ever, 10 the 24 leaders bow in front of the one who sits on the throne and worship the one who lives forever and ever. They place their crowns in front of the throne and say, 11 “Our Lord and God, you deserve to receive glory, honor, and power because you created everything. Everything came into existence and was created because of your will.”

That is the clearest glimpse of Heaven we have in the Bible, from John. Paul also said he was taken up, but would not elaborate on what he saw.

Making up stuff is fun, but it is just our imagination. I would say that most Christians believe they go to Heaven when they die. This is not true Christianity. Most Christians don't bother to read the Word they say they believe in and do not even know what it says. Seems we have not come very far since Martin Luther started off the translating of the NT into other languages than Latin, which had given the Catholics a monopoly on Christian Scripture beforehand.

Let me hammer this home that in the Bible we do not go to Heaven when we die. We come back to a new earth after the Messiah's Millenium is finished. In the mean time we are asleep.

Sorry, double post.

originally posted by: Malak777
a reply to: dfnj2015

I think your description is all fantasy. Nothing in the Bible points to what you are saying in any way at all.

I believe when we die, we DIE. There is nothing left of us. From dust we came and to dust we return until the Resurrection. That is what the Bible says happens.

However, I believe we are recorded and G-D will resurrect all of us, just as the Bible says. For us it will be like going to sleep and then waking up again. That is the whole point of why G-D resurrected Jesus, to show us it can be done and that it is real.

We do not go to Heaven. We never will. In both the OT and NT we are informed specifically that Heaven is not for us. The Bible states that we will be resurrected on a new earth, as the old will perish in fire. It describes this very specifically in Revelation. G-D shall eventually come to be with people on the new earth in the New Jerusalem that will descend from out of the sky.

If you are a Christian believing in going to Heaven when you die is GNOSTIC. It does not say that anywhere in the Bible. Jesus told us G-D is Spirit. The visions of Him are of something so bright HE can not be seen. His throne has four Creatures surrounding It:

Revelation 4: 1-11,

4 After these things I saw a door standing open in heaven. I heard the first voice like a trumpet speaking to me. It said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must happen after this.” 2 Instantly, I came under the Spirit’s power. I saw a throne in heaven, and someone was sitting on it. 3 The one sitting there looked like gray quartz and red quartz. There was a rainbow around the throne which looked like an emerald. 4 Around that throne were 24 other thrones, and on these thrones sat 24 leaders wearing white clothes. They had gold crowns on their heads. 5 Lightning, noise, and thunder came from the throne. Seven flaming torches were burning in front of the throne. These are the seven spirits of God. 6 In front of the throne, there was something like a sea of glass as clear as crystal. In the center near the throne and around the throne were four living creatures covered with eyes in front and in back. 7 The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like a young bull, the third had a face like a human, and the fourth was like a flying eagle. 8 Each of the four living creatures had six wings and were covered with eyes, inside and out. Without stopping day or night they were singing, “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, who is, and who is coming.” 9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor, and thanks to the one who sits on the throne, to the one who lives forever and ever, 10 the 24 leaders bow in front of the one who sits on the throne and worship the one who lives forever and ever. They place their crowns in front of the throne and say, 11 “Our Lord and God, you deserve to receive glory, honor, and power because you created everything. Everything came into existence and was created because of your will.”

That is the clearest glimpse of Heaven we have in the Bible, from John. Paul also said he was taken up, but would not elaborate on what he saw.

Making up stuff is fun, but it is just our imagination. I would say that most Christians believe they go to Heaven when they die. This is not true Christianity. Most Christians don't bother to read the Word they say they believe in and do not even know what it says. Seems we have not come very far since Martin Luther started off the translating of the NT into other languages than Latin, which had given the Catholics a monopoly on Christian Scripture beforehand.

Let me hammer this home that in the Bible we do not go to Heaven when we die. We come back to a new earth after the Messiah's Millenium is finished. In the mean time we are asleep.

Well said, Malak777! I would only add that "Hell" does not exist, as the four words it is translated from in the Bible do not refer to a place of eternal conscious torment.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Keep it short Lazarus Short....... no need to quote the entire post.

a reply to: Malak777

So when we die we die...... but then get resurrected?

Did Jesus die for our sins?
Does it say in the Bible that Jesus was resurrected for our sins as well?

a reply to: dfnj2015

Throw a glass marble hard at a wall. It shatters in a million little glass shards.
Where did the marble go?

Gone...shattered, and the marbles gone. Right?
Wrong....the marble is still there only reshaped into tiny pieces...but is still a marble.

When we die...we are still "here" and a marble...only now in a different form

originally posted by: Malak777
a reply to: dfnj2015

I think your description is all fantasy. Nothing in the Bible points to what you are saying in any way at all.

Everything written down in the Bible was written by men. How do you know what is written down in the Bible is not fantasy. Do you honestly think the following passages are direct messages from our Almighty God:

No. 1:St Paul’s advice about whether women are allowed to teach men in church:

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:12)

No. 2: In this verse, Samuel, one of the early leaders of Israel, orders genocide against a neighbouring people:

“This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)

No. 3: A command of Moses:

“Do not allow a sorceress to live.” (Exodus 22:18)

No. 4: The ending of Psalm 137, a psalm which was made into a disco calypso hit by Boney M, is often omitted from readings in church:

“Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9)

No. 5: Another blood-curdling tale from the Book of Judges, where an Israelite man is trapped in a house by a hostile crowd, and sends out his concubine to placate them:

“So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” (Judges 19:25-28)

No. 6: St Paul condemns homosexuality in the opening chapter of the Book of Romans:

“In the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.” (Romans 1:27)

No. 7: In this story from the Book of Judges, an Israelite leader, Jephthah, makes a rash vow to God, which has to be carried out:

“And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord, and said, ‘If you will give the Ammonites into my hand, then whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return victorious from the Ammonites, shall be the Lord’s, to be offered up by me as a burnt-offering.’ Then Jephthah came to his home at Mizpah; and there was his daughter coming out to meet him with timbrels and with dancing. She was his only child; he had no son or daughter except her. When he saw her, he tore his clothes, and said, ‘Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low; you have become the cause of great trouble to me. For I have opened my mouth to the Lord, and I cannot take back my vow.’” (Judges 11:30-1, 34-5)

No. 8: The Lord is speaking to Abraham in this story where God commands him to sacrifice his son:

‘Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt-offering on one of the mountains that I shall show you.’ (Genesis 22:2)

No. 9: “Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:22)

No. 10: “Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

If you think the Bible is the absolute word of God then you need to have your head examined. If the Bible is the absolute word of God how can it be so wrong on the morality of slavery? Or having a concubine and sending her out to be gang raped? Do you honestly think God is advocating gang rape? Just having a concubine is immoral.

a reply to: mysterioustranger

In cloud algebra, 1 plus 1 equals 1. I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. If you have 100 buckets of water all having a reflection of the moon in them, it's still the same moon even through each bucket is slightly different.

Simple...we don't go anywhere when we die...just our shell changes their form of energy, rebirth, appearance.

It was a Zen Buddhist monk who told me that story about what happens and where do we go when we die....

We are either a fully-whole marble...or a shattered whole marble.

Living, dead, whole or in pieces...yet still a "marble"....and that's a pretty good metaphor for life...and death

a reply to: dfnj2015

Do you really propose to judge God? Please keep in mind the difference between what happened and what God wants from us, for the Bible you quote is a record of God's faithfulness and man's failure.

a reply to: dfnj2015

The bible has to be read in light of the people, culture, and beliefs at the time it was written, and furthermore verses need to be taking entirely in their context. Otherwise the bible seems barbaric and ridiculous. Do you read any other ancient texts and expect the writer to write so that his ideas and words will be totally in keeping with our culture today? Th bible is an ANCIENT TEXT. So, reading it without having some knowledge of the cultural situation of the time and people who wrote it is like you flying to Thailand today and getting off the plane and exoecting everyone to speak English and asking where the closest McDonald's is.

I also once thought "the bible was written by a bunch of men for the purpose of controlling society and for their own gains." I believed that wholeheartedly. Now I see that the bible is an incredibly integrated collection of texts that were written over a thousand year period, by and for a people to record and teach a people's relationship with and to God.

Furthermore: the bible's purpose is NOT to teach us about science; for example, the creation account isn't there to tell us exactly how the world started. It's conveying theological ideas about how humans fit into God's creation.

Same thing with everything else, including history. The bible is meant to convey theological ideas to us, so reading anything else from it or into it will just be futile.

a reply to: Malak777

The old saying, never debate religion or politics. I have no idea if you are any more right or wrong than others here but I certainly do give you an A for effort.
S&F

a reply to: dfnj2015

Theorizing about what may happen after death is, of course, idle conjecture.

But even so, your idea seems incredibly unlikely to me.

Living for ever and ever in either torment or paradise...why?

It all sounds like some incredibly unauthentic fairy story.

Fairy stories I heard as a kid had something about them to make you think, "Hmm...I wonder." You sort of knew it was junk but some of them sounded plausible.

Yours doesn't.

Yes...I do want to update my save file.

originally posted by: Malak777
a reply to: dfnj2015

Let me hammer this home that in the Bible we do not go to Heaven when we die. We come back to a new earth after the Messiah's Millenium is finished. In the mean time we are asleep.

Pretty certain dfnj1015 failed to reference the 'Bible' (as the GO TO Authority) in its OP nevermind...but I would ask you which book states we do not go to Heaven and come back to a 'new earth'?

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: Malak777

So when we die we die...... but then get resurrected?
Did Jesus die for our sins?
Does it say in the Bible that Jesus was resurrected for our sins as well?

I guess dead is dead Itisnowagain, UNTIL we resurrect.
Jesus died in order for us to stop repeating the very reason WE KEEP resurrecting.
Jesus resurrected because (apparently) he did not lead a clean enough life and must repeat a do over to correct misdeeds.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

There is no death......... only the illusion of separateness ends.

No thing was ever born so no thing will ever die.