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Originally posted by bratok
I believe that we, by hammering "respect authority", "doing this is right, that is wrong", etc. are building a cage around our children.
Originally posted by thelibra
It's not that I think physical violence is the answer, it's that I don't think allowing bad students at a younger age to be paddled is wrong. I don't know if that counts or not.
Originally posted by thelibra
However,in Elementary school, it was a fact that if you were bad enough, you got paddled. It was accepted as the consequence of our actions, not as an act of submission.
www.abcnews.go.com...
"The frontal lobes are sort of the executive center of the brain — the part of the brain that's responsible for planning, organizing, anticipating the consequences of one's actions," said Elizabeth Sowell, a UCLA neurophysiologist.
www.vin.com...
Regardless, the logic for using very specific phenomenological diagnoses related to fear and anxiety is to (a) enumerate and identify the particular behavioral manifestation that needs to be altered or assessed, and (b) to identify areas where specific behavioral intervention can be useful.
Corticosteroids play extremely important roles in fear and anxiety. The mechanisms by which corticosteroids exert their effects on behavior are often indirect, because, although corticosteroids do not regulate behavior, they induce chemical changes in particular sets of neurons making certain behavioral outcomes more likely in certain contexts as a result of the strengthening or weakening of particular neural pathways.
Originally posted by thelibra
It was a very effective method of controlling unruly children.
Originally posted by MemoryShock
To educate through respect and collaboration is to raise for critical thought and socially minded interaction.
Originally posted by thelibra
That's all well and good, but how? Children do not inherently know to respect their elders, that has to be instilled. They also do not contain the same sort of basis that adults do on which to base their opinions.
Originally posted by thelibra
Nice use buzz words, but what do they really mean? It's sort of like saying "We need to be proactive in adhering to a more synergetic environment."
Originally posted by thelibra
It sounds like what you're suggesting is to eliminate individuality among the students. I can think of no more effective method at eliminating a student's interest at excelling.
Originally posted by thelibra
It's not that I think physical violence is the answer, it's that I don't think allowing bad students at a younger age to be paddled is wrong. I don't know if that counts or not.
Originally posted by MemoryShock
Originally posted by thelibra
However,in Elementary school, it was a fact that if you were bad enough, you got paddled. It was accepted as the consequence of our actions, not as an act of submission.
Sure, but now we're in a grey area where we have to define what is a physically punishable offense in the school environment. Disruption of the classroom environment?
Originally posted by MemoryShock
What about a situation where a child is not interested in the subject, as per some of your earlier thoughts? Non-interest in a subject could be interpreted by a teacher as refusal to cooperate, and punishment may be decided upon as a likely course of action.
Originally posted by MemoryShock
The child isn't necassarily going to learn anything other than punishment can occur arbritrarily and thus, interest can wane further and subsequent introversion may be the result.
Originally posted by MemoryShock
Balancing social experience can offset this, but the whole point of this thread is to decide what would constitute an improvement. I'm not the first one to claim the social experience is an important factor of the learning process. Also, social eperience can mean all kinds of different things.......
Originally posted by MemoryShock
...the individual will be more concerned with the consequence of the action than the application...
Originally posted by MemoryShock
The above states how fear and anxiety are viewed in the definition of a consciousness, i.e. as a basis for behaviour that potentially needs to be changed, of course dependent on the type of behaviour and its impact on the overall ability to function. Corporeal punishment can have this impact on an individual, indeed, in some cases the anticipation of corporeal punishment can have this affect.
Originally posted by MemoryShock
The topic is not "unruly children", rather on effecting a better schooling system, in which case I would have to side with many of your statements......but an optimal school system does not include corporeal punishment, imo.
Originally posted by MemoryShock
Originally posted by MemoryShock
To educate through respect and collaboration is to raise for critical thought and socially minded interaction.
Originally posted by thelibra
That's all well and good, but how? Children do not inherently know to respect their elders, that has to be instilled. They also do not contain the same sort of basis that adults do on which to base their opinions.
Originally posted by MemoryShock
The key word is collaboration. There are many ways, I'm sure, to incorporate this concept, and probably already has in some cases.......I'm at a current loss for suggesting how this would be accomplished.
But therein lies the problem. There probably are ways, but to date, the old methods still work best for the least cost in terms of time and money.
I can think of a few ways to try and steer the trend towards a better understanding, but it would take an incorporation by all aspects of the culture surrounding the child. Older siblings paying respect to the adults (instead of acting like ungrateful snots). Television shows that teach respecting adults (instead of making them look like buffoons). Money management classes at an early age. Regular time taken by the parents, each day, to sit down with the child and explaining ethical and moral values. A media that glorifies good behavior and merit, rather than glitz and glam. An entire shift in the paradigm of society to encourage working for the greater good, rather than the individual. A network of friends and neighbors to monitor and guide the children in the right direction. A removal of parasitic elements from the adult element...
All of these things can come into effect, and even then you will have children who will still rebel, and refuse to respect elders, because they are children, and that's what children do.
Originally posted by MemoryShock
And I wasn't suggesting anything near "proactive" or even a course of action in that statement.......just stating the reality of a non-static environment.
Which a static environment really isn't possible (see above) until we achieve a Hive Mind state of being. While these problems should be considered in devising solutions to other aspects of education, it is unfortunately not a changable one.
Originally posted by MemoryShock
Without the buzz words.........some are gonna win, and some are gonna lose.
Agreed, which is why we hope to maximize the number of those who win, through means which we can control or at least heavily influence.
Originally posted by MemoryShock
Originally posted by thelibra
It sounds like what you're suggesting is to eliminate individuality among the students. I can think of no more effective method at eliminating a student's interest at excelling.
That is not what I'm suggesting.....and I'm puzzled as to how you arrived at that conclusion.
I think it was the....eh....not important. If it's not what you meant, then no real point in figuring it out, cause we're both on the same page then.
Originally posted by MemoryShock
Originally posted by thelibra
It's not that I think physical violence is the answer, it's that I don't think allowing bad students at a younger age to be paddled is wrong. I don't know if that counts or not.
Stated like that, I can't find a problem with that......but I think allowing the school to punish children physically opens up the possibilities for dramatics that would undoubtedly detract from the educational process.
Ah, okay, I can agree with that. Though I feel it is still, at this stage in society, a neccesary evil until something better comes along.
And that's how I'm viewing this discussion, topic being the improvement of said process, not the relevancy of physical punishment.
My mind keeps referring to soficrow's post......I think she put very succintly.......within that paradigm(buzzword), you have room for error as social outlets prominent in society will go along way to assuaging any concerns displayed by an imperfect world......
Originally posted by intrepid
Personally I think that by the time a child gets to school age corporal punishment becomes unnecessary. Spanking I believe is necessary in pre-schoolers, what's better for them?
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
So, we must start aiming for smaller schools. an absolute limit of 20 students per class, and 25 classes per campus at any one time.
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
2. Sports programs compete for attention with academics. So, I would end all field sports with other institutions.
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
3. Increase the degree of inter-school academic and intellectual competition. I'd have statewide chess and debate competitions, with scholarships and entry into the college of one's choice as prizes.
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
You want to fund a cheap sport? how about fencing.
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
4. Teach the classics
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
5. Cameras in every space
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
6. Schools can expell students, and districts no longer have a responsibility for that student.
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
7. A "Civil Service Corps" where they send you if you drop out of school.
(snip)
And if you "fail out" of CSC, you also opt out of welfare.
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
8. End "group work."