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An End To The Moon Conspiracy!

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posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by resistance
Mission to Mars.


I wouldn't actually call a movie that made over $100 millions dollars worldwide ($60 million in the USA) a flop. Also, it wasn't a Disney film. Disney had nothing to do with it, as you can see here: Company credits for
Mission to Mars
. If anything, Mission to Mars was a movie made to compete with Warner Brother's Red Planet. That's not a conspiracy either... It's just business.




posted on Nov, 4 2005 @ 01:50 AM
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Originally posted by resistance

Originally posted by Halfofone
Well if you've seen the entire video you will notice that the blue light in the windows is there all the time. You are probably thinking EXACTICALY!!! because the were in low earth orbit the entire time....

However, if you know anything about orbiting earth, you would know that you are orbiting at about 45 min on the day side and 45 min on the night side. Therefore sometimes you would see black and sometimes earth, but this is not the case.


Halfo -- The point is, that even if there was not 45 minutes of blue and 45 minutes of black (which how would you know that?) there just shouldn't be ANY bllue if they are in deep space and not orbiting at all. And to try to explain the blue sky away by saying it's just light reflecting, you can believe that but I don't.


Well the relatively simple scientific principles that cause these phenomenon have been explained to you, if you want to carry on ignoring them then that's up to you. You seem to go on like you think it's pitch black when travelling through our solar system - that's not what you believe is it?
Anyway, in this selection of pictures you can see how the colour changes slightly depending on angles, lighting and exposure:













www.lpi.usra.edu...



Oh, and sorry to butt in on your discussionon the aliens and the astroNOTs. I don't know if any of them truly personally believe in aliens (unless they've been subjected to mind control programming by NASA and the secret military, like I think Buzz may have been) -- but I think they'd all like everybody else to believe in them. NASA obviously acts like they believe in aliens and would like the rest of us to believe in them. NOT.


Okay.........
If you paid attention to recent discoveries both on this planet (in extreme locations) and also in our solar system then you might understand why this now seems a likely proposition, but you obviously find it hard to read source material or understand science so I won't waste my time telling you (if anyone else wants to know that doesn't, just say and I will post some links).



Hmmm. I wonder why our government picked the congressional medal of honor to be the same symbol as that the witches use? (five pointed star in a circle). Oh, well. Probably just a coincidence, like the Illuminati's eye of horus and the pyramid is just a coincidence on the dollar bill.


You say it like it's a bad thing, you might want to be careful - there are a lot of practising witches and magickians on this board - you might offend someone... We wouldn't want that would we? Not everyone here follows magickal paths that are governed and restricted by rules.

Oh and nice attempt at a diversion tactic, not sure quite what this had to do with the subject at hand - you might want to visit the NWO and Secret Society forums.

Oh I see you did read my posts where I pointed out to you your little error with Mission to Mars, back on page 21, so you do read some of it then.... well done.

Did you decide to just throw science away because you 'don't need it' or something? There is nothing wrong with not understanding science, but if you refuse to learn or listen to people that do, then how do you think you can discuss a subject whose main basis and method of understanding revolves purely around science?

Oh I nearly forgot, with you're infinite knowledge and superior intellect - please could you explain to all of us how the guys on Apollo 11 were able to take this image (of many) that clearly shows the entire disc of the Earth from a distance, all using nothing more than a 'cardboard cutout' from your special video?



www.lpi.usra.edu...

Shhh... don't distract him anybody, this should be a corker!

[edit on 4-11-2005 by AgentSmith]



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid

Originally posted by resistance
Mission to Mars.


I wouldn't actually call a movie that made over $100 millions dollars worldwide ($60 million in the USA) a flop. Also, it wasn't a Disney film. Disney had nothing to do with it, as you can see here: Company credits for
Mission to Mars
. If anything, Mission to Mars was a movie made to compete with Warner Brother's Red Planet. That's not a conspiracy either... It's just business.


From what I've read this movie was a sleeper. Disney produced it and it was a Touchstone film. Touchstone is Disney. Here's a review. Nobody liked this movie.

www.showbizdata.com...

As to being "just business," -- sure, money is the bottom line of everything. But money is the biggest conspiracy of all. When you "follow the money," the trail leads to Illuminati 99 times out of 100. These people would kill their grandmother for fifty cents. (maybe a slight exaggeration, but not much of one).

Agent -- You are quite right that I have not read any of the posts on the astroNOTs and their "sightings" or any of the alien stuff. I am almost as bored by the aliens as I am by the Apollo missions and the Hubble telescope. (yawn). Why should I concern myself with the latest flimflam appearance by a stupid demon from the pits of hell? These creatures are liars, deceivers, and destroyers. I'm only interested in exposing them -- not watching their many thousands of antics and appearances. I know what they are and who they are and they can't hurt me. They only way they CAN hurt me is by deceiving people on this earth who then ARE able to hurt me. So my best defense against them is to try to warn others not to listen to them or to believe them in any way. This I try to do on this forum and others.

Since the Illuminati worship the head demon (known by many names but Lucifer, Satan, Bel, Baal, Osiris, Ra, Baphomet) they are well aware of who they are dealing with. Since the military has been taken over at many levels (i.e. see Griggs interview link where she tells that you just don't get promoted unless you play the Nazi homo game) by Nazi Homosexual Illuminati the military knows full well who they deal with, and they deal with them directly (demons). The military is heavily occult and the traffic with demons is ongoing. The demons are manifesting (through torturing another human you can make them manifest), and some say these slimy evil creatures are even being bred to humans (I don't doubt it). The "alien deception" is done with a full cooperaton between the occult-ridden military and the demonic world. Between the two of them (the Nazi Homosexual Illuminati Military, NASA and their demon allies), they are going to foist a so-called alien invasion on us. They will produce some kind of creatures that will seem to be not human and very powerful in performing psychic feats and such, and will completely fool almost the entire populace of the world. But I won't be one of those who are fooled. About that time is when I grab my survival kit and head for the mountains.

And as to your posted pics, once you leave the earth's atmosphere the sky is black. The blue color comes from the refraction of light in the earth's atmosphere. No atmosphere, no light -- as I'm sure, smart guy that you are, you already know.

As to the posted moon pics, probably something Calvin Hamilton cooked up with Photoshop,like 99 percent of all NASA's pictures are.

There is one thing the Luciferians are better at than anyone -- illusion, lies, legerdemain, bluff, manipulation, deceit. That's why they get along so well with Hollywood -- the master of illusion. Unfortunately these fakers are trying to explain the unexplainable and are stuck with the record of this monstrous hoax from the early '60s. The relics of this hoax are displayed at the Space Museum, and anyone who looks under the smoke and mirrors can see it was a hoax. We are not able to go to the moon TODAY. We certainly did not go there 35 years ago with those hokey spacesuits with zippers, flimsy gloves, those little things they have displayed at the Space Museum. It takes oxygen, the ability to cool oneself in a vaccum, lots and lots of fuel to get there and back, to land on the moon and get back off it and join the "mother ship." There are so many anomalies -- almost every picture NASA has displayed are full of them. The whole thing actually is an anomaly.

The Illuminati is able to go about their business without any fear because what they do is so awful, so outrageous, that nobody would believe it, and hardly anybody does. So they don't care how many people like me try to wake up the deceived sheeple. They just laugh and go right on planning even bigger hoaxes for the future. Meantime they control the media, manipulate the entire populace through the media. They control the schools, and feed all kinds of unbelievable propaganda to the trusting minds of young schoolchildren. They own and run everything and the whole time they just laugh their butts off at how easily led and easily fooled the "masses" are. They are planning to kill us all, or almost all of us. When this starts to happen, those who escape death will probably think it's all just a great idea that all this is happening and will be kissing the feet of the Illuminati and their
evil ruler who will sit at the top of the pyramid and pull the strings on all his puppets below.

People nowadays have not one inkling of what freedom means. They think freedom means the right to watch porn on the Internet.



Anyway, when it comes to smoke and mirrors, movies like Mission to Mars, NASA and Disney make a good team. They just need to get some better scriptwriters.






[edit on 5-11-2005 by resistance]



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by resistance
Agent -- You are quite right that I have not read any of the posts on the astroNOTs and their "sightings" or any of the alien stuff. I am almost as bored by the aliens as I am by the Apollo missions and the Hubble telescope. (yawn). Why should I concern myself with the latest flimflam appearance by a stupid demon from the pits of hell? These creatures are liars, deceivers, and destroyers. I'm only interested in exposing them -- not watching their many thousands of antics and appearances. I know what they are and who they are and they can't hurt me. They only way they can hurt me is by deceiving people on this earth who then ARE able to hurt me. So my best defense against them is to try to warn others not to listen to them or to believe them in any way. This I try to do on this forum and others.

Since the Illuminati worship the head demon I think they are well aware of who they are dealing with. Since the military has been taken over by Nazi Homosexual Illuminati the military knows full well who they deal with, and they deal with them directly (demons). The military is heavily occult and the traffic with demons is ongoing. They are manifesting, and some say are even being bred to humans. The "alien deception" is done with a full cooperaton between the military and the demonic world. Between the two of them (the Nazi Homosexual Illuminati Military and their demon allies, they are going to foist an so-called alien invasion on us. They will produce some kind of creatures that will seem to be not human and very powerful in performing psychic feats and such, and will completely fool almost the entire populace of the world. But I won't be one of those who are fooled. About that time is when I grab my survival kit and head for the mountains.



Err.. ok...




And as to your posted pics, once you leave the earth's atmosphere the sky is black. The blue color comes from the refraction of light in the earth's atmosphere. No atmosphere, no light -- as I'm sure, smart guy that you are, you already know.


And as you've been told about half a dozen times, it was caused by a combination of the light refracting on the glass and the outgassing of the compounds used to seal the windows.


Outgassing
The release of solvents and moisture from composite parts under a vacuum.
www.acmanet.org...




As to the posted moon pics, probably something Calvin Hamilton cooked up on his Photoshop like 99 percent of all NASA's pictures are. NASA and Disney make a good team. They just need to get some better scriptwriters.


Ah yes, because they had photoshop 30 years ago... Just because you only saw the pictures recently doesn't mean they have just come out.

Man I hope you're going to be in the TV show - you're amazing!


[edit on 5-11-2005 by AgentSmith]



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 11:31 AM
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Halfo, Agent, Keen, Astronomer, jra, et al -- You gotta click on the links and watch these videos, last links at the bottom, of Kay Griggs. Our government is run by unspeakably evil men through the military and it's all about selling weapons and bringing down the United States. It's time to wake up and realize this. NOW. Homosexual Nazis are murdering and raping children, programming them, and pushing them up to be the rulers of our country and of other countries (Pol Pot, Mao, others). We must not be ignorant of these things. As Christians we can at least pray if nothing else. To be ignorant lets them continue their evil deeds to the destruction of all.

Read the Cutting Edge website also for more information, also links on mind control I have sent before.

Svali interview
educate-yourself.org...

The Illuminati Formula Used to Create an Undetectable Total Mind Controlled Slave
educate-yourself.org...

Deeper Insights into the Illuminati Formula
www.whale.to...

Monarch Mind Control Programming: What It Is
mindcontrolforums.com...







Kay Griggs wife of Colonel George Griggs

Why would the US military ignore 9-11 and other crimes?
These excerpts from 8 hours of interview of Kay Griggs (available at 888-820-2126) show one reason.
Kay is another woman who wants a better world.

Video: Part 1 www.apfn.org... 16MB

PART 2 DEALS WITH THE FACT WE DID NOT GO TO THE MOON.
Video: Part 2 www.apfn.org... 18.6MB


[edit on 5-11-2005 by resistance]



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 11:55 AM
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I'm glad you posted that video, here's the actual transcript of the question asked and the response in the Apollo 11 Press Conference:

Reporter: When you looked up at the sky, could you actually see the stars and the solar corona in spite of the glare?

Armstrong: We were never able to see stars from the surface or on the daylight side of the moon, by eye, without looking through the optics.
I don't recall during the period of time that we were photographing the Solar Corona what stars we could see.

Collins: I don't remember seeing any

And where is the smoking gun exactly? Makes perfect sense to me and ties in with the known laws of physics. I fail to understand why you keep arguing this point - you said yourself that you have little or no knowledge of physics or science - so why do you keep arguing with people that do when you should be learning? Did you do this back at school?

And is that woman for real? I quickly whizzed through the video and it seems to be put together like some sort of brainwashing thing for the weak of mind or kids. They even flash words up on the screen to emphasise things and try and drive it into your head. I also find it hard to believe the woman would still be alive if there was much truth to it. But as I know little about her I can't really have much more of an opinion then that.

But if your concerned about brainwashing then you should look at yourself to be honest.

You might find it helpful to listen to Majic's podcast on Information Warfare:

www.podtrac.com...

And beware the path of the false prophets.

[edit on 5-11-2005 by AgentSmith]



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by AgentSmith
I'm glad you posted that video, here's the actual transcript of the question asked and the response in the Apollo 11 Press Conference:

Reporter: When you looked up at the sky, could you actually see the stars and the solar corona in spite of the glare?

Armstrong: We were never able to see stars from the surface or on the daylight side of the moon, by eye, without looking through the optics.
I don't recall during the period of time that we were photographing the Solar Corona what stars we could see.

Collins: I don't remember seeing any

And where is the smoking gun exactly? Makes perfect sense to me and ties in with the known laws of physics.


Agent -- Collins says, Yeah, I don't remember seeing any stars.

Well, COLLINS WAS IN THE MOTHER SHIP. COLLINS WAS NEVER ON THE SURFACE OF THE MOON. COLLINS WAS CIRCLING THE MOON. So if Collins saw no stars it's because COLLINS WAS NOT THERE. If Collins was not there, then neither was Armstrong or Aldrin.

Kay Griggs does not seem to be a brainwashed person. She does seem to be a bit "used" to the military lifestyle, which is why she can describe the horrors she describes in such a pleasant manner. It doesn't mean she's not ripped up by it. Did you see the pictures they showed of her husband, what this lifestyle did to HIM?

You can check a lot of the stuff she says independently. Bohemian Grove, the traffic in children, the S&M homosexual stuff. She says nobody gets promoted unless they play the game -- i.e. go into the coffin like GWB did at Skull and Bones at Yale, and get the "treatment" when another man climbs in the box with you. When they are done with you, you will do what they say or they can blackmail you. And if you don't continue on and continue to play the game with them -- either be a bisexual or a homosexual in their orgiestic socializing events, then you don't get promoted. They might even have you committed to a mental hospital if they think you're going to make any trouble for them.

We might as well face it that the world is run by mind controlled slaves, bullies and thugs, Illuminati liars and deceivers. The Moon Hoax is just the tip of the iceberg -- just the tip, and only one tip. There's lots of "tips" poking out all over -- Pearl Harbor, JFK, 9/11, Oklahoma, Waco, Ruby Ridge, the torture of prisoners, Katrina. The current administration is ripping off its mask and doesn't seem to care who knows they are Illuminati. Laura Bush sent out Christmas cards to her intimate friends with the Phoenix Bird on it. She wears this as a lapel pin. The Bushes and the Clintons are best buddies. They flash the Illuminati sign all the time -- don't even care who knows what they're doing. They are blatant. The Bushes -- GWB, Laura and the two floosy daughters were flashing the Illuminati sign CONSTANTLY during the Inauguration parade.

The only reason we're not all dead now, minus our heads, is because Ronald Reagan slipped in under their manipulation and control of the presidental elections. Even then, the only way the Illuminati would consent to let him run was if he agreed to take GHWB as his running mate. Reagan slowed their plans down a lot. It's obvious to me however that GWB is champing at the bit to spring the trap. We're all sitting in it, you know. The trap's been baited and we're all sitting here eating the meat and the Illuminati is just waiting for the exact right moment to spring the trap.

[edit on 5-11-2005 by resistance]



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 12:23 PM
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He will have been in light most if not all of the time. Even when on the 'Dark side' of the Moon and didn't have the glare from Earth to contend with he will have been in Sunlight - the dark side just never faces us.
The rare occasions he might have had the oppurtunity and been in darkess he was probably too busy doing his job or sleeping.

Edit:

While all this Illumanti stuff is truly fascinating - I fear you are detracting away from the topic of conversation which is about the Lunar missions.
Perhaps you would like to start a thread in the fine 'Secret Society' Forum?
There no point manipulating this into a discussion into the NWO when you are loosing scientific arguments about an event that revolved purely around science.

[edit on 5-11-2005 by AgentSmith]



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by AgentSmith
He will have been in light most if not all of the time. Even when on the 'Dark side' of the Moon and didn't have the glare from Earth to contend with he will have been in Sunlight - the dark side just never faces us.
The rare occasions he might have had the oppurtunity and been in darkess he was probably too busy doing his job or sleeping.

Edit:

While all this Illumanti stuff is truly fascinating - I fear you are detracting away from the topic of conversation which is about the Lunar missions.
Perhaps you would like to start a thread in the fine 'Secret Society' Forum?
There no point manipulating this into a discussion into the NWO when you are loosing scientific arguments about an event that revolved purely around science.

[edit on 5-11-2005 by AgentSmith]


Yeah. I know you think looking for stars or observing the heavens is equivalent to going on vacation. The only important thing is bringing back half a ton of rocks.

Why did he say he didn't "remember" seeing any stars? Why not say, It is impossible to see stars in space because of either moonshine or earthshine?

Huh? Why did he say he couldn't "REMEMBER" seeing any stars? Why did he act so confused and why were Armstrong and Collins exchanging glances like they wanted to be sure they got their stories straight? Why were all three of them squirming around like the body buried under the porch was starting to smell and they hoped nobody noticed?



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by resistance
Yeah. I know you think looking for stars or observing the heavens is equivalent to going on vacation. The only important thing is bringing back half a ton of rocks.

Why did he say he didn't "remember" seeing any stars? Why not say, It is impossible to see stars in space because of either moonshine or earthshine?

Huh? Why did he say he couldn't "REMEMBER" seeing any stars? Why did he act so confused and why were Armstrong and Collins exchanging glances like they wanted to be sure they got their stories straight? Why were all three of them squirming around like the body buried under the porch was starting to smell and they hoped nobody noticed?


It's not abnormal human behaviour - do you want me to start a psycology lecture too now? It will not have been forefront on his mind, you must have been in situations where when questioned about an event you realise you're not actually sure about a detail but feel you should be?

I really think you're seeing things that arn't there or watching a different video to everyone else.
They don't look especially nervous to me, not more so than anyone else who has to endure a press conference when it's not part of their main job.

And believe it or not, their primary mission was not to collect trivial information to satisy the curiosities and questions of people with egotistical delusions of self-importance and some sort of inner-knowledge.

[edit on 5-11-2005 by AgentSmith]



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 12:55 PM
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DUPLICATE

[edit on 5-11-2005 by AgentSmith]



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 01:29 PM
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Okay, Agent, jra, et al:

You guys would believe anything if somebody with a white coat on told you, or if you read it in a textbook, or a college professor told you. Doesn't matter what they said, you'd believe it. Did you ever think about using your own brain that God gave you?

Agent -- Your idea of "trivial" information and mine are like night and day (no pun intended).

Here's a great link for you guys. Maybe this one will wake you up, but I doubt it!

www.erichufschmid.net...



[edit on 5-11-2005 by resistance]



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 01:42 PM
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Not really, if there is a bright source of light dominating the eye then it will not pick up fainter objects.. period.. I thought they teached that at school.
You also can't look up as such in a space suit, not without leaning dangerously back - when you look up you see the top of the helmet.
Your eyes also need a substantial amount of time to adjust from the bright sun/surface reflection to the much dimmer starlight, they were not there to lie on their backs and gaze into space - which is practically what they would have to do. They could however see stars from the Lunar Module by using the optics, which effectively shielded them from any light sources, and after a period of adjustment - that much is documented in the Lunar Journal.

The guy on that Kindergarten website you showed us forgot to add the helmet to his head, that would have shown what he would have seen - the inside of his helmet... No accident that was left out I feel. You would have to tilt your head back an impossible amount and shield it somehow to block out the bright light in your peripheral vision.

You also seem to misunderstand me, I don't learn things 'parrot fashion' which is what you are suggesting, but I understand things.... There is a difference.


Originally posted by resistance
You guys would believe anything if somebody with a white coat on told you, or if you read it in a textbook, or a college professor told you. Doesn't matter what they said, you'd believe it. Did you ever think about using your own brain that God gave you?


Mate, that's pretty rich coming from you - considering you read some fringe websites on the internet and believe that:


Originally posted by resistance
Since the Illuminati worship the head demon (known by many names but Lucifer, Satan, Bel, Baal, Osiris, Ra, Baphomet) they are well aware of who they are dealing with. Since the military has been taken over at many levels (i.e. see Griggs interview link where she tells that you just don't get promoted unless you play the Nazi homo game) by Nazi Homosexual Illuminati the military knows full well who they deal with, and they deal with them directly (demons). The military is heavily occult and the traffic with demons is ongoing. The demons are manifesting (through torturing another human you can make them manifest), and some say these slimy evil creatures are even being bred to humans (I don't doubt it). The "alien deception" is done with a full cooperaton between the occult-ridden military and the demonic world. Between the two of them (the Nazi Homosexual Illuminati Military, NASA and their demon allies), they are going to foist a so-called alien invasion on us. They will produce some kind of creatures that will seem to be not human and very powerful in performing psychic feats and such, and will completely fool almost the entire populace of the world. But I won't be one of those who are fooled. About that time is when I grab my survival kit and head for the mountains.


Sorry I must apologise, all this time I've been saying 'did you listen in school' but I just assumed that you actually went - I am so very sorry.

[edit on 5-11-2005 by AgentSmith]


jra

posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by resistance
Okay, Agent, jra, et al:

You guys would believe anything if somebody with a white coat on told you, or if you read it in a textbook, or a college professor told you. Doesn't matter what they said, you'd believe it.


I believe whatever has the most overwhelming evidence for and also what makes the most sense logicly. You seem to have a biased opinion about everything relating to space and science to begin with. I'm not even going to touch that halfbaked Illuminati stuff you went off about...


Did you ever think about using your own brain that God gave you?


Yes, this is why I research every thing I can before I open my mouth. I learn all I can from various sources and form an opinion of my own. Unlike some people I know who seem to only regurgitate the things that they are told/read by other people, with little facts to back it up.

[edit on 5-11-2005 by jra]



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by jra

I believe whatever has the most overwhelming evidence for and also what makes the most sense logicly. You seem to have a biased opinion about everything relating to space and science to begin with. I'm not even going to touch that halfbacked Illuminati stuff you went off about...


What you're really saying here is that you will believe whatever you're told, if it's told you often enough and by people you "trust" and respect. When you say you aren't even going to "touch the halfbaked Illuminati stuff" -- it shows you are impervious to truth if it contradicts what you've always heard and what Dan Rather told you on TV, etcetera. As to science, I love science. Pseudoscience is what I don't like. Quite obviously Apollo and all that is romantic smoke and mirrors nonsense. People do have to go to the bathroom, for example. And if you go someplace like the moon you get off and you start looking up and around and everywhere. You don't get a shovel and start digging rocks. And who the heck cares about a silly flag stuck in the moon? Like, man, what do you guys SEE up there?

Agent thinks they could not look up, shouldn't BE looking up (because they're not on VACATION! no less. You guys don't have a clue what real science is IMO. I guess if I was wearing a catheter and a poop bag for 10 days I might not want to be looking around much either. But I also wouldn't want to be playing golf, pounding flags into a hard moon surface (with no hammer), and bouncing around on a moon buggy either.


I research every thing I can before I open my mouth. I learn all I can from various sources and form an opinion of my own. Unlike some people I know who seem to only regurgitate the things that they are told/read by other people, with little facts to back it up.


The only "facts" you're looking up are anything and everything that might possibly offer some kind of excuse, any excuse, for NASA and the fact that they mooned America.

Agent -- BTW, what a nice new avatar you have, the sign of the Illuminati. You are so cool, man.

Might I interject a bit of Scripture here without the risk of being banned or sent to the Christian Ghetto (aka Below Top Secret)?

Woe unto those who call good evil and evil good. Isaiah 5:20

[edit on 5-11-2005 by resistance]



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by resistance

Originally posted by jra

I believe whatever has the most overwhelming evidence for and also what makes the most sense logicly. You seem to have a biased opinion about everything relating to space and science to begin with. I'm not even going to touch that halfbacked Illuminati stuff you went off about...


What you're really saying here is that you will believe whatever you're told, if it's told you often enough and by people you "trust" and respect. When you say you aren't even going to "touch the halfbaked Illuminati stuff" -- it shows you are impervious to truth if it contradicts what you've always heard and what Dan Rather told you on TV, etcetera.


No, we understand these things - we observe them in action all around us, we have recreated the principles in experiments and can comprehend them.
You criticise that but what are you doing with your theories? Who do you believe? Where did your ideas come from?

Do you not "believe whatever you're told, if it's told you often enough and by people you "trust" and respect. ".



As to science, I love science. Pseudoscience is what I don't like.


Well it isn't, I'm sorry but you are either extremely misguided or extremely stypid. You said yourself you don't understand physics, so basically becasue you can't understand it you have decided it isn't true. Ironic really that someone like yourself would believe in God!



Quite obviously Apollo and all that is romantic smoke and mirrors nonsense. People do have to go to the bathroom, for example. And if you go someplace like the moon you get off and you start looking up and around and everywhere. You don't get a shovel and start digging rocks. And who the heck cares about a silly flag stuck in the moon? Like, man, what do you guys SEE up there?


Yes well that's why you are... where you are.... and they went there. Not sure what the bathroom reference is there, sounds like a kindrgarten question - I'm not even going to bother explaining that. And errr.. yes you do start digging rocks because to understand what makes up our solar system that's what you've got to do. Not really sure why you can't uinderstand why they can't look up... pretty simple really... And yes - the flag is a bit of an egotistical thing - but it's normal human behaviour and the political meaning at the time was highly significant.



Agent thinks they could not look up, shouldn't BE looking up (because they're not on VACATION! no less.


Not sure if you think you 'got me' there or something but as I said - they were on a mission - not a vacation.. Looking up and shielding oneself from the glare around them without the aid of instruments was virtually, if not completely, impossible.



You guys don't have a clue what real science is IMO.


You admitted yourself you don't understand it... what's your idea of 'real science'? banging some rocks together?




I research every thing I can before I open my mouth. I learn all I can from various sources and form an opinion of my own. Unlike some people I know who seem to only regurgitate the things that they are told/read by other people, with little facts to back it up.


The only "facts" you're looking up are anything and everything that might possibly offer some kind of excuse, any excuse, for NASA and the fact that they mooned America.


Well ours have basis in basic scientfic theory and yours.... don't...... they are someone else's dumb ideas (no insult to you - I know they're not your ideas).



Agent -- BTW, what a nice new avatar you have, the sign of the Illuminati. You are so cool, man.



Yes I am arn't I! Thank you

By the way the 'Eye of Providence' within a pyramid is symbolic of the all-seeing eye of god made up by the trinity (The Son, the Father and the Holy Spirit).
Definitions of 'Providence' found on google being:



www.google.co.uk...

- a manifestation of God's foresightful care for his creatures

- God s will, as expressed through events on Earth. Fate is seen as revelation.

- God working all things to the purpose of his will (Isa.40:28; Ps.139:13; Rom.8:28)

- Care or guardianship.

- God's goodness and benevolent care of all people.

- God; the Deity


Do you fear your God looking into your mind and knowing everything you know and think? I don't want an answer to that, that's a personal matter for you.



Might I interject a bit of Scripture here without the risk of being banned or sent to the Christian Ghetto (aka Below Top Secret)?

Woe unto those who call good evil and evil good. Isaiah 5:20

[edit on 5-11-2005 by resistance]


Have you ever considered that your 'sources' are false prophets, those who claim to be on the side of God and yet mislead you on a false path of apparant righteousness?


Matthew 7:15 - Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Matthew 24:11 - And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:24 - For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mark 13:22 - For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Luke 6:26 - Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

2 Peter 2:1 - But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1 John 4:1 - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Revelation 16:13 - And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

Revelation 19:20 - And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


Don't think that you're 'side' is the 'right' side - they are all equally capable of dragging you into the depths of hell, you have to consider that the dark one will try many methods to trick you into his ways. He won't make it that simple for you, he won't make a 'right' and 'wrong' answer - he will make it so he can drag you down no matter which way you turn. The battle between good and evil isn't going to be easy and you are not going to win it by being blind to that which you do not want to believe.
If you follow without question the path you have chosen then you too will fall victim to his trickery, if you blindly follow the path of Man, again you will fall victim to him. You have to carefully pick your way through the middle path, where truths lie on both sides and you have to use your intelligence and wits to keep yourself safe.
You are more of a sheep then you effectively accuse us of being, we have witnessed and have understandings of the various methods and theories involved. You are merely following a path blind, in the hope you will find salvation for your eternal soul. This will not suffice....

[edit on 5-11-2005 by AgentSmith]



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 04:42 PM
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Agent -- Science is not the American flag. It is not half a ton of moon rocks.

If I went to the moon that would be the last thing on my mind. The last.

I would have a lot to see and tell.

I would not be playing golf and I would not be smuggling golf balls there to play golf.

I would have no need or desire for a moon buggy.

None of the things that were said and done in the AstroNOTs script sound like anything anybody would really say.

And the thing about the catheter and poop bag is an attempt to insert some realism into the Wonderful World of Disney here. Ahem.

The site I sent you to brought up some good points. What happens if you throw up on the moon? What happens if you fall down and rip your space suit? How do you go to the bathroom when you're wearing a spacesuit for 10 days or more? And it gets really, really hot in a pressurized suit when you're surrounded by a vacuum and the sun is beating down. Your body heat has no place to go. The astroNOTs had no lifeline to anything, just those hokey coolpacks on their back.

So the eye of Horus is not the sign of the Illuminati? Really? It's the sign of Christianity? How could I have missed that?

I never meant to imply that I know nothing at all about science and/or physics. Biology was a piece of cake for me. I've always been interested in science, and even though I am a grown adult I read about it, just for my own enlightenment and because I have a hungry mind that wants to know the truth -- no matter WHAT the truth is. No matter where it takes me, that's where I want to go. So I am not a flat-earth hermit muttering from my cave.



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 05:07 PM
link   

Originally posted by resistance
Agent -- Science is not the American flag. It is not half a ton of moon rocks.

If I went to the moon that would be the last thing on my mind. The last.


Well that's why people like you stay firmly where they are without going anywhere.
Rocks = Geology = history of Solar System and understand of how we came into existance + knowing what makes up the moon and how we can use it to our advantage.

Flag = Very Big Political Statement



I would have a lot to see and tell.


And they still do, they didn't stop talking about it when we were at dinner, and they had plenty to say during the lectures as well.
I guess they do tend to conceal most of what they have said in books though, so I guess I can understand why you don't know.



I would not be playing golf and I would not be smuggling golf balls there to play golf.


emm.. not used to having a sense of fun then.. I could tell you some amusing stories from the depths of the armed forces but it's nothing that would be appreciated as public knowledge (nor is it sinister either).



I would have no need or desire for a moon buggy.


I should put that in a sig, that ignorant statement show how little you know all by itself. I guess you can't appreciate the need to cover as much ground as possible to collect as many samples as possible other a wide area... No.. thought not - that went straight over your head didn't it.



None of the things that were said and done in the AstroNOTs script sound like anything anybody would really say.


What you on about man! Nothing you say sounds like anything anyone would say either... LOL what's that supposed to mean? What's your point of reference for that statement?



And the thing about the catheter and poop bag is an attempt to insert some realism into the Wonderful World of Disney here. Ahem.


Err... OK... Though the necessity was pretty obivious - I guess you don't think the use them in hospital either... And what is it with your unhealthy infatuation with Disney? Were you abused by Mickey at Disneyworld or something? you seem to have it in for them...



The site I sent you to brought up some good points. What happens if you throw up on the moon?


If you throw hard enough the object could potentially leave orbit, but otherwise it comes back down...



What happens if you fall down and rip your space suit?


Err. you die mate.... pretty obvious really. But if you bothered to read up how they were constructed and bothred to listen to the lecture by Charlie Duke then you would understand why this is highly unlikely. Like I said the white part with the zippers that looks 'flimsy' is just the outer part of the suit.



How do you go to the bathroom when you're wearing a spacesuit for 10 days or more?


As you said before - 'poop' bags and catheters.



And it gets really, really hot in a pressurized suit when you're surrounded by a vacuum and the sun is beating down. Your body heat has no place to go. The astroNOTs had no lifeline to anything, just those hokey coolpacks on their back.


Those 'hokey' backbacks were their lifelines. As you know, I posted detailed diagrams not long back - have you forgotten? What did you think they kept in them? Their sandwiches?



So the eye of Horus is not the sign of the Illuminati? Really? It's the sign of Christianity? How could I have missed that?


Like I said, they tend to conceal information like that in books.
Anyway, the eye of Horus is not a christian symbol, it is Egyptian and represents the left eye of Horus, it having been destroyed by his brother Set and re-assembled by Thoth. (In one version - tohugh most are similar).
The true eye of God, as shown in the top of my avatar, cannot be distinguised from left or right.
The problem is - there are several versions and interpretations of this - but as with all symbology it's what it means to the individual that is important. This is something you would learn if you studied the fundamentals of Magick, but I expect you think that's evil.
The details of what it means to me and my exact interpretation are mine and mine alone... You can worry about it all you want. The only power it has over you is what you believe it to, as with all symbols in our mortal realm it has no real physical significance but is merely a channel for conciousness,



I never meant to imply that I know nothing at all about science and/or physics. Biology was a piece of cake for me. I've always been interested in science, and even though I am a grown adult I read about it, just for my own enlightenment and because I have a hungry mind that wants to know the truth -- no matter WHAT the truth is.


Yes well so do I, the problem is that you fail to grasp the abilities of reasoning and learning.
I mean, some of the statements you have made that rely on physics and science have been so mis-informed that it really takes the mick, I know kids that understand it better and the concepts can be observed or recreated in everyday enviroments. I thought it was pretty simple as it is to me, but maybe I'm expecting too much.


I am a grown adult


ROTFL!!!!................... seriously?



No matter where it takes me, that's where I want to go. So I am not a flat-
earth hermit muttering from my cave.


No comment...

[edit on 5-11-2005 by AgentSmith]



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 06:56 PM
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Agent -- You put up links about the spacesuits. What those links showed me was that the shuttle spacemen had lifelines to the ship, that their suits were heavier than the astroNOTs. The shuttle spacepersons were outside the ship for a short period, but they needed more equipment to sustain them than the astroNOTs did. That was my point. The astroNOTs had NO LIFELINE.

Also, the shuttle spacepersons were in low earth orbit, not subject to radiation. The radiation on the moon is horrendous. NASA admits that and is sending a probe in 10 years to study the radiation.

But the astroNOTs could bop around on the moon with catheters and poop bags and no lifeline and hokey cool packs and ride around on moon buggies and take a million pictures and put foil around their hokey moon lander and all that stuff?

Tell me the truth. After looking at the picture of that moon lander, do you honestly and truly deep in your heart believe that thing landed on the moon and then took off to meet the mother ship? Not once but six times?

Tell me the truth.

And as to your claim that the Illuminati sign you have as your new avatar is somehow "Christian," (which according to what I know is not any sign of God at all the way you have it up there) -- Scripture says to avoid even the appearance of evil. It sure looks evil to me and it looks evil to me on the dollar bill also.

How come you know so much about Magick (as you say) but nothing about the Illuminati? Hmmm.



posted on Nov, 6 2005 @ 03:51 AM
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Originally posted by resistance
Agent -- You put up links about the spacesuits. What those links showed me was that the shuttle spacemen had lifelines to the ship, that their suits were heavier than the astroNOTs. The shuttle spacepersons were outside the ship for a short period, but they needed more equipment to sustain them than the astroNOTs did. That was my point. The astroNOTs had NO LIFELINE.


You seem to have so easily forgotten all the discussion back on page 21:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here's a picture to help you recap:



And here's one of your quotes you tried to use when arguing the same point - proving how little you read or understand:


The Apollo space suits were the first to use liquid cooling garments with a separate ventilation garment. The cooling and ventilation system was drastically improved because the astronauts would be doing a great amount of physical activity exploring the moon therefore producing more body heat and perspiration. The astronaut would first dawn the liquid cooling garment, which was long underwear with poly-vinyl tubing sewn in it. This water was cooled in the PLSS and returned to the tubes to cool the astronaut. The ventilation garment was the inner most layer of the pressure garment. This ventilation garment used nylon fabric ducts to circulate the air inside the suit in order to remove carbon dioxide as well as perspiration. This system is very close to the current system in its design because they both use the PLSS to provide cool water and ventilation and their actual construction is very similar. These same Apollo suits were again used in the Apollo-Soyuz missions but relied on an umbilical tether to the spacecraft for air and water. The case was the same for the Skylab missions as well. ILC Dover manufactured and designed both of the suits. ILC Dover manufactures LCVG's for the current space shuttle suit.
ssoar.org...



The Shuttle EMU suit weighed 50 kg and its PLSS Portable Life Support System, 15 kg. It provided life support for up to nine hours.
www.astronautix.com...


Just because something is heavier is irrelevent. And as I pointed out they actually had more Oxygen and water on the later Moon missions then the Shuttle EMU has now.

From my previous post on page 21:



Primary Life-Support Subsystem (PLSS)
The PLSS is the backpack worn by the astronaut. It contains the oxygen tanks (1.2 lb / 0.54 kg at 518 atm tank pressure), carbon dioxide scrubbers/filters, cooling water (10 lb / 4.6 kg total), radio, electrical power, ventilating fans and warning systems. Oxygen flows into the suit behind the astronauts's head and out of the suit at the feet and elbows. Once inside the PLSS, the air flow enters a charcoal cartridge, to remove odors, and then the carbon dioxide scrubber cartridge. The gas flow then goes through a fan, and then to a sublimator that removes water vapor and returns it to the cooling-water supply. The temperature of the air flow is maintained at 55 F (12.8 C). The astronaut can adjust the temperature, pressure and air flow through controls on the DCM. The PLSS provides up to seven hours of oxygen supply and carbon dioxide removal.
science.howstuffworks.com...


And the Apollo 17 PLSS:


For Apollo 17, each PLSS could hold enough oxygen (1.8 pounds), feedwater water (12 pounds), and battery power (25 amp hours) to see an astronaut through seven to eight hours of Extravehicular Activity (EVA).
www.hq.nasa.gov...



As experience and confidence grew after the first few missions, it became apparent that longer duration EVAs could be accommodated. EVAs for Apollo 11 through 14 were limited to 4 hours. To support the more ambitious exploration plans for Apollo 15 through 17, the PLSS operational lifetime was doubled to 8 hours. The changes made to the PLSS were:

Oxygen capacity: Pressure in the primary oxygen bottles was increased to 1430 PSIA from 1020 PSIA
Feedwater for cooling: Increased to 11.5 pounds (about 5.2 liters) from 8.5 pounds (about 3.9 liters)

Battery: Capacity increased to 390 watt-hours from 279 watt-hours

Lithium hydroxide: canister increased to hold 3.12 pounds of LiOH, up from 3.0 pounds.


The capacity of the OPS was not changed, and remained at about 30 minutes of oxygen for breathing and cooling. When combined with the Buddy Secondary Life Support System, which used the functional PLSS for cooling, the OPS could supply oxygen for 75 to 90 minutes.


They also had the OPS and BSLSS (see above) which provided portable backup in the case of emergency.



I'm not sure where you get your ideas from but they're something else mate!
I also love your knack for thinking that if you repeat yourself a few days later that your idea will magically become right and the facts will be forgotten - you seem to have fallen fowl of thinking that everyone that reads this will be like you, well unfortunately for you the majority will actually have read all or most of this thread so you're basically making yourself look silly...



Also, the shuttle spacepersons were in low earth orbit, not subject to radiation. The radiation on the moon is horrendous. NASA admits that and is sending a probe in 10 years to study the radiation.


They arre subject to some radiation, but they are sending probes to the Moon as they can more accurately determine exactly what it is we face there using modern technology. They are looking to the future and staying there for longer periods of time, our Sun is also more active so I imagine that will be in the equation.



But the astroNOTs could bop around on the moon with catheters and poop bags and no lifeline and hokey cool packs and ride around on moon buggies and take a million pictures and put foil around their hokey moon lander and all that stuff?


Err.. well yes..



Tell me the truth. After looking at the picture of that moon lander, do you honestly and truly deep in your heart believe that thing landed on the moon and then took off to meet the mother ship? Not once but six times?

Tell me the truth.


Yes, I do.. I've seen enough of what we can do for myself and spoken to enough people to be able to safely come to the conclusion that we did go.
I also know how these things were constructed and that what you are seeing on the outside bears no relation to the strengh of what's inside. They were not subject to elements such as on Earth. You don't seem to understand what these things are - you keep going on about 'foil' when it' wasn't foil. You basically have no desire to learn how these things work and I imagine that's because you fear having any of your theories thrown into doubt within your own head.

At least people like SteveR have intelligence and show the ability to learn, his arguments were also better founded than yours and he would come up with new material, instead of childishly repeating the same statements which have already been disproven.



And as to your claim that the Illuminati sign you have as your new avatar is somehow "Christian," (which according to what I know is not any sign of God at all the way you have it up there) -- Scripture says to avoid even the appearance of evil. It sure looks evil to me and it looks evil to me on the dollar bill also.


Well you obviously don't know much generally anyway, to be honest mate, so I wouldn't let that be any sort of definitive answer to anything.
I also said that as with any symbol it's significance is what it means to the individual. What it means and symbolises to me is my business.


The All-Seeing Eye
This all-seeing eye of God looks out from the triangle of the Trinity. It is found in some English and Greek churches.

home.rochester.rr.com...



"The single eye was a well-established artistic convention for an 'omniscient Ubiquitous Deity' in the medallic art of the Renaissance. In 1614 the frontispiece of The History of the World by Sir Walter Raleigh showed an eye in a cloud labeled "Providentia" overlooking a globe. Du Simitiere, who suggested using the symbol, collected art books and was familiar with the artistic and ornamental devices used in Renaissance art."3
The all-seeing eye of God is noted several times in the Christian Bible:
Psalm 32:8 I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.
Psalm 33:18 Behold, the eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy;
Ezekiel 20:17 Nevertheless mine eye spared them from destroying them, neither did I make an end of them in the wilderness.
...................
The eye inside of an equilateral triangle, point up or down, has often appeared in Christian art. "It is often placed high above the alter as in the Pfarrkirche at Grmunden am Traunsee (1626) and the Fisherman's church at Traunkirchen, while it appears over the doorway of the church of the monastary of St. Florian near Linz."
freemasonry.bcy.ca...



The later addition of an enclosing triangle is usually seen as a more explicit trinitarian reference to the God of Christianity.
www.answers.com...





How come you know so much about Magick (as you say) but nothing about the Illuminati? Hmmm.


I never said I don't know anything about the Illuminati, I just think you're lunatic raving (especially in a thread about lunar exploration) is irrelevent.

If you want to engage in speculative discussion about me and my avatar, then I suggest you start a thread about it - the Skunk Works maybe?

You can gabber on by yourself now anyway, unless you come up with something new, all you seem to do is repeat yourself again and again and again.
It doesn't work in our world of logic and reasoning, call it the 'forbidden fruit' if you want.
Are you enjoying the produce of "Satan's influence" like your computer and the electricity powering it by the way.. Hypocrite....

You might want to take a look at this book from my basic recommended reading list before you get too engaged in discussion with anyone else:



Try not to knock anything over in your blind fumbling and try not to bore everyone else here by posting the same thing every day...

Acta est fabula, plaudite!

[edit on 6-11-2005 by AgentSmith]



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