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The Cost of Illegal Immigration

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posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 10:01 AM
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One of the things I've noticed in discussion about the wall is the down playing of how much illegal immigration costs. Some even try to claim that illegal immigration is a net benefit. Intuitively, I think most people would say that there is no way illegal immigration is a net benefit. However, in fairness, it is a complicated topic and even harder to pin down cost numbers. Of course, depending on whether you lean left or right, you can probably find a study that supports your position.

Anyway, just figured I'd open a discussion about the costs that can easily be identified. What actually prompted me was the LA Teachers Union strike. If you don't know, LA teachers have been on strike demanding the usual teacher union talking points - more funding, smaller class sizes, teacher raises, etc. However, as I was reading about it, I began to notice a few people pointing out how they've been glossing over the effect of illegal immigration on the school systems in LA in light of the debate we are currently having.

One study indicated that some 250,000 kids between 3 & 17 are illegals. In addition, another 750,000 k-12 have illegal parents. So we are looking at like 1 million kids draining school resources. When you figure public schools can cost like $15k/yr to educate a kid, that is almost $15 BILLION! The entire CA school system from general funds is around $46 BILLION. So obviously, illegals are putting a huge drain on the resources in the school system. If you wanted to reduce class sizes, improve funding, etc it is pretty obvious stemming the flow of illegals into CA is an easy place to start.

The Union is supporting illegals because much like the Democrats, they view them as additional headcount for a larger agenda.

I just find it ironic that many of our urban areas are bursting at the seams in terms of resources. Liberals constantly complain about this but then on the other than hand the look to keep importing more and more people when we already can't even support the ones that are here.

Any way, discuss...




posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 10:12 AM
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a reply to: Edumakated


When you figure public schools can cost like $15k/yr to educate a kid, that is almost $15 BILLION! The entire CA school system from general funds is around $46 BILLION.



Yep, and the oldest sancuary city in California, Los Angeles, the teachers are on strike. One of the demands? Smaller classroom size.
Try to wrap your brain around that one! Virtue signal for open borders, then complain you have too many students to teach. Other than the teachers who keep their politics out of the classroom and realize the folly of open borders, I don't feel the least bit sorry for them.


Then imagine the pensions when that bubble pops.




edit on 18-1-2019 by seeker1963 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 10:17 AM
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originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: Edumakated


When you figure public schools can cost like $15k/yr to educate a kid, that is almost $15 BILLION! The entire CA school system from general funds is around $46 BILLION.



Yep, and the oldest sancuary city in California, Los Angeles, the teachers are on strike. One of the demands? Smaller classroom size.
Try to wrap your brain around that one! Virtue signal for open borders, then complain you have too many students to teach. Other than the teachers who keep their politics out of the classroom and realize the folly of open borders, I don't feel the least bit sorry for them.


Then imagine the pensions when that bubble pops.





EXACTLY! I keep trying to make sense of this sh*t.... Liberals constantly have positions that are totally at odds and it makes no sense.

You want higher wages, but then keep importing cheap labor!



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 10:55 AM
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originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: Edumakated







EXACTLY! I keep trying to make sense of this sh*t.... Liberals constantly have positions that are totally at odds and it makes no sense.

You want higher wages, but then keep importing cheap labor!


For a lot of pro immigration lobbiests cheap labor is all this is about, I've watched this since Reagan was president and it's all about the corporate bottom line. In those days it was the Japanese trade war, when the "job creators" exported our electronics and powertool industries to Japan, everybody in America cheered the new "cheaper" products and the US chamber of commerce went on a massive propaganda campaign to convince everybody it was great. Worker non participation hit a big spike.
Enter the nineties, when textiles, shoes and clothing production was shipped overseas, late nineties all the phone operator jobs went to India,
Labor participation rates continue to plummet the entire time.
No one paid attention.
Now you can't outsource service sector jobs, but hey, we have millions of dirt poor neighbors to the south we can import for those jobs.
Non participation rate climbs to around ninety million working age Americans not bringing home a paycheck.
I worked as a commercial Carpenter for thirty years starting in the mid eighties, watched the illegals really start making inroads into that trade in the late nineties to the point that you basically need to know Spanish to walk on a construction site these days, e-verify is a joke. Employers make sure all their citzen employees get THEIR half dozen forms of ID on record, the day after you go to work and their are thirty new non English speaking Hispanics doing your job for half price.
After the housing crash of 2008 I watched at least 30 union carpenter companies go out of business in central New England to be replaced by companies hiring illegals.
And during the Million Mexican March am I the only one who remembers Tyson Chicken complaining they had to close their processing plants for the duration? Union jobs that paid 17 dollars an hour turned into non union jobs performed by illegals for 7 dollars an hour.
The only beneficiarys of this mass invasion are the greedy bosses that hire the illegal aliens.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 10:57 AM
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One of my relatives works in a hospital.
She sees dozens of people every week in the emergency room that get treated and just walk out.

Might as well forget being paid.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 11:04 AM
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This is the average lifetime cost of illegal immigrants. Notice the 65.3 billion is per 1 million illegal immigrants not as a whole since we don't know how many are actually here. The number I hear a lot is 11 or 12 million illegals are here and we all know that number continues to go up.



In a prior analysis, we estimated that the average net fiscal cost (taxes paid minus services used) of an illegal immigrant was $65,292 during their lifetime — excluding their U.S.-born children. This came to $65.3 billion per million illegal immigrants. The figures were expressed in 2016 dollars. Adjusted to 2018 dollars, it would be $69,570 per illegal immigrant, or $69.6 billion per million illegal immigrants.





A second caveat is that the above cost estimates are only for the original illegal immigrant, and exclude descendants. Using the NAS net cost estimates for the descendants adds $18,112 (2018 dollars) to the net fiscal drain per immigrant. A third caveat is that the estimate for deportation costs does not include the costs of the immigration courts run by the Department of Justice. Dividing the court's budget in 2016 by the number deportations in that year adds $1,864 to the average cost of a removal or it adds $820 to the 2012 cost — in 2018 dollars. Finally, the NAS's long-term fiscal estimates by education use the concept of "net present value" (NPV), which is commonly employed by economists. This approach has the effect of reducing the size of the net fiscal drain that unskilled immigrants create because costs or benefits years from now are valued less relative to more immediate costs. If the NPV concept is not used, the actual net lifetime fiscal cost of illegal immigrants is likely $125,000 to $135,000 per illegal alien, or nearly twice the cost when the NPV concept is employed.


Center of Immigration Studies

The prior analysis is linked in the source.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 12:00 PM
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At least they pay taxes for benefits they're ineligible to receive:

Undocumented immigrants pay billions of dollars in federal taxes each year


The most recent IRS data, from 2015, shows that the agency received 4.4 million income tax returns from workers who don’t have Social Security numbers, which includes a large number of undocumented immigrants. That year, they paid $23.6 billion in income taxes.

Those undocumented workers paid taxes for benefits they can’t even use, like Social Security and Medicare. They also aren’t eligible for benefits like the earned income tax credit. But the IRS still expects unauthorized immigrants to file their taxes, and many of them do so.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 12:13 PM
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Has anyone factored in that these people become workers, value as community members, taxpayers and consumers?



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 12:20 PM
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originally posted by: InTheLight
Has anyone factored in that these people become workers, value as community members, taxpayers and consumers?


Yes, they do become workers.... but at what expense? This is the issue. If they are generating say $50 billion but costing us $100 billion, that is not a benefit...

Illegal immigrants drive wages down of the workers in which they are competing with for jobs. Go ask any construction worker. When you increase the supply of workers, wages will fall.

The black community has been hit hard because many of the jobs that woudl typically be done by teens or those with low skills in the black community are now done by low skilled immigrants. This is one of the reasons teen unemployment in the black community is so high now.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 12:21 PM
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$113 Billion per year in direct costs to State and Federal governments, the states bearing 2/3 of the cost. You can't find any studies claiming a net economic benefit. They do pay tens of billions in taxes each year but that was subtracted from the cost in the figure above which reaches $160 billion before taxes are deducted.

63% of illegal household access welfare programs - cis.org...

These figures do not include cost of depreciation to infrastructure, increased rental and housing prices for everyone, reduced wages for all or the costs of crime on businesses and persons affected. The cost of these people cumulatively likely adds up to over a Trillion dollars in total. Sure our overseas military misadventures have cost more but why do we have to pay for either? Because debt is money and control for the banking elites and they will continue to force us to spend more than we take in every single year. This is why they will fight Trump tooth and nail to keep the border open.

If building a wall cut illegal immigration by only 10% it would pay for itself in 6 months.
edit on 18-1-2019 by Asktheanimals because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 12:27 PM
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originally posted by: Asktheanimals
$113 Billion per year in direct costs to State and Federal governments, the states bearing 2/3 of the cost. You can't find any studies claiming a net economic benefit. They do pay tens of billions in taxes each year but that was subtracted from the cost in the figure above which reaches $160 billion before taxes are deducted.

63% of illegal household access welfare programs - cis.org...

These figures do not include cost of depreciation to infrastructure, increased rental and housing prices for everyone, reduced wages for all or the costs of crime on businesses and persons affected. The cost of these people cumulatively likely adds up to over a Trillion dollars in total. Sure our overseas military misadventures have cost more but why do we have to pay for either? Because debt is money and control for the banking elites and they will continue to force us to spend more than we take in every single year. This is why they will fight Trump tooth and nail to keep the border open.


The studies I read about this state that the calculations are too complex to get a true amount, because of too many variables.

Did you know that your country is 2nd richest out of 185 countries with all that factored in. Maybe y'all should be looking at where your government spends your hard earned dollars, because it sure looks like it's not where it should be with all your grievances.



11. United States • GNI per capita: $60,200 • 2017 GDP: $19,390.60 billion (2nd out of 185 countries) • Population (2017): 325.89 million • Life expectancy at birth in 2016: 78.7 years


www.usatoday.com...
edit on 01CST12America/Chicago028121231 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 12:53 PM
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originally posted by: links234
At least they pay taxes for benefits they're ineligible to receive:

Undocumented immigrants pay billions of dollars in federal taxes each year


The most recent IRS data, from 2015, shows that the agency received 4.4 million income tax returns from workers who don’t have Social Security numbers, which includes a large number of undocumented immigrants. That year, they paid $23.6 billion in income taxes.

Those undocumented workers paid taxes for benefits they can’t even use, like Social Security and Medicare. They also aren’t eligible for benefits like the earned income tax credit. But the IRS still expects unauthorized immigrants to file their taxes, and many of them do so.



I've heard this story before and I have a hard time believing its true.
For one thing, who collects tax on the cash they are rumored to be paid in?

And secondly, look at the numbers.
4.4 million tax returns accounted for $23.6 billion collected.

Simple division says that's $5,227 tax each.

How are people working on minimum wage jobs paying that much income tax?



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 01:40 PM
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originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: links234
At least they pay taxes for benefits they're ineligible to receive:

Undocumented immigrants pay billions of dollars in federal taxes each year


The most recent IRS data, from 2015, shows that the agency received 4.4 million income tax returns from workers who don’t have Social Security numbers, which includes a large number of undocumented immigrants. That year, they paid $23.6 billion in income taxes.

Those undocumented workers paid taxes for benefits they can’t even use, like Social Security and Medicare. They also aren’t eligible for benefits like the earned income tax credit. But the IRS still expects unauthorized immigrants to file their taxes, and many of them do so.



I've heard this story before and I have a hard time believing its true.
For one thing, who collects tax on the cash they are rumored to be paid in?

And secondly, look at the numbers.
4.4 million tax returns accounted for $23.6 billion collected.

Simple division says that's $5,227 tax each.

How are people working on minimum wage jobs paying that much income tax?


Not to mention a lot of them send a portion of their income back to their home country so it’s not even being recycled into our own economy.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 02:56 PM
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a reply to: Bluntone22

Who said they're earning minimum wage? A lot of ag jobs pay more than minimum wage or pay more for more work, i.e. pick more apples, make more money. Even if they were earning minimum wage, again, they're not allowed to receive earned income tax credits which is what most Americans use to get a tax return.

Why American citizens don't take these jobs; 1) it's back-breaking labor and 2) they're unskilled in these sectors compared to the immigrants meaning they don't earn as much and are either unable or unwilling to work as hard to make as much money.

That also ties into the fact that most illegal immigrants come here legally through work visa's and then stay longer than they're allowed. That's why they file taxes, because they're being paid and taxed legally. The IRS doesn't keep track of how long they're supposed to work, just that they worked and earned income.

They also pay other taxes like the rest of us and (like most Americans) don't write those taxes off; gas, sales, property, etc.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 03:06 PM
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originally posted by: links234
a reply to: Bluntone22

Who said they're earning minimum wage? A lot of ag jobs pay more than minimum wage or pay more for more work, i.e. pick more apples, make more money. Even if they were earning minimum wage, again, they're not allowed to receive earned income tax credits which is what most Americans use to get a tax return.

Why American citizens don't take these jobs; 1) it's back-breaking labor and 2) they're unskilled in these sectors compared to the immigrants meaning they don't earn as much and are either unable or unwilling to work as hard to make as much money.

That also ties into the fact that most illegal immigrants come here legally through work visa's and then stay longer than they're allowed. That's why they file taxes, because they're being paid and taxed legally. The IRS doesn't keep track of how long they're supposed to work, just that they worked and earned income.

They also pay other taxes like the rest of us and (like most Americans) don't write those taxes off; gas, sales, property, etc.


Those who over stay visas are not the same ones picking strawberries...

The jobs don't pay a lot because there is a steady stream of cheap unskilled labor to do the work. If you want wages to rise, you have to reduce the supply of qualified workers.

While they may be paying some taxes, I question if it is even remotely comparable to what they aren't paying... This is the problem. So each immigrant pays around $5300 in taxes, but we know they cost way more than that in services consumed. As I pointed out in the OP, it cost about $15k in most urban areas just to educate one kid in public school. We haven't even gotten into the healthcare.... nor the identity fraud.... nor the other crimes.... nor the second language needs.... nor the cost of lower wages for American workers....

To be clear, I have no problem with LEGAL IMMIGRATION. However, immigration is not a free for all. It has to be legal and limited.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 03:07 PM
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originally posted by: Edumakated
Some even try to claim that illegal immigration is a net benefit. Intuitively, I think most people would say that there is no way illegal immigration is a net benefit.


Seems to depend entirely on whether one's party is using pandering to illegals to buttress their Kept Voter population or not. If the pandered and pampered illegals are voting "correctly," (and illegally) then certain partisans love them to death.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 03:14 PM
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originally posted by: InTheLight
Has anyone factored in that these people become workers, value as community members, taxpayers and consumers?


That they do, some anyway. The last company I worked for in New England had several Latinos I got to know pretty well working on the crew. Nice people, competent drywall guys, and during a big Roundup by ICE in Obama's last term were themselves complaining about all the illegal immigration and the effect it had on wages.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 05:29 PM
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Add a fee the people's tax bills to cover the cost and see how fast those who don't care about stopping illegal immigration start caring.
edit on 1/18/2019 by roadgravel because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 09:42 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

The junior high I briefly taught at had over 40 different languages represented among its student body. Now you can say that not all of those kids were there illegally, but there's a pretty good bet that a number of them were.

As a teacher, how do you adequately instruct student who are ESL when that many different languages are in your student population? I think a lot of the time, people just think of this as a mainly bilingual issue, but it's not. We have kids/families coming in unchecked who speak all kinds of different languages putting strain on the system.

I read an article where they interviewed a rancher on the boarder who referenced Czechoslovakians having been picked up on her neighbors' property.

So they come across from all different places, not just Hispanic countries.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 09:46 PM
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originally posted by: roadgravel
Add a fee the people's tax bills to cover the cost and see how fast those who don't care about stopping illegal immigration start caring.


Do it. It will be quite an eye-opening experiment, indeed.







 
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