Social Scores and Surveillance State; the Scope and Implications.

a reply to: JinMI

We are getting there. I just found out that there is such a thing as "facebook Jail"..lol! I don't have a facebook account, so, I wasn't aware you can get temp or perma ban just for stating an opinion on your own private facebook page..roflmao

I just don't get it. A private company that can do as it wishes, sure. Just never thought I'd see a day when an American would censor another American. Very weird to me...

a reply to: zosimov

I can be dense sometimes but really can't tell what stars and flags and thread title have to do with this?

It's another version of social scoring.

We are a capitalist nation with a representative republic government. Simply put, it's much more profitable to farm, compile and sell our data than to restrict it's flow. It benefits both and can be done in the name of freedom.

We give the info freely. Just check this box and agree to these 20 pages of terms.

Another point to this is the rewards systems. Just register with all your personal information and allow them to do as they will for a little discount on goods and services.

It's very much the same here as in China under the hood.

a reply to: zosimov

I recently had a friend visit from India.
He told me that part of the social score and suitability to marry
included the following:

Skin color - lighter better - darker worse
Where you work
Your height
Your income potential
The school you went to
Your ability to do work in America
Your family and where they originate from in India.

More here
www.dowrycalculator.com...

This is some pretty scary stuff!
I was shocked when I thought about it, they are very open and matter of fact about it, and
seem to just accept it. They are very caste based.

When I think about the US, I think we have a lot of these same preconceived opinions/ prejudices
We just like to say we don't believe them. I think right now it is easier for Americans to slip from one
caste (income bracket/social standing) to another, but maybe the NWO wants us to be more like India and
China!

a reply to: blend57

Reddit and Twitter have a long history of shadowbanning. Right now there is a massive spat between content producers and the payment platform Patreon over censoring and banning based on outlandish claims of tos violations.

a reply to: blend57


Also your score can go down if you have friends online that have a low social score. Basically they are isolating you from everything. A social leper so to speak. I can see the start of this type of social conditioning already in the states. We all know about facebook and twitter banning people for wrong think, but the worst seems Patreon who provided a way for people to pay their favorite creators is now banning people.

a reply to: JinMI

Oh haha well true enough there.

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: blend57


Also your score can go down if you have friends online that have a low social score. Basically they are isolating you from everything. A social leper so to speak. I can see the start of this type of social conditioning already in the states. We all know about facebook and twitter banning people for wrong think, but the worst seems Patreon who provided a way for people to pay their favorite creators is now banning people.

It seems to be the trend that damaging information is the most sought , most used, being the most useful towards manipulating individuals later . Low credit score = low cost to society , low pay etc .
The system where people start with a full 12 points, which can only be knocked downwards , not upwards ; that's a trap if ever there was one. When the governements do it you cant back out of it , no reset button

Its going to be a paranoid society while there are traps everywhere , when there are jealous rats and greedy backstabbers around ...even worse .

a reply to: zosimov

I can be dense sometimes but really can't tell what stars and flags and thread title have to do with this?

If you get a chance watch the "Black Mirror" episode "Nosedive", I believe it is season 3 episode 1.
"China's ranking system gives citizens social credit score! BLACK MIRROR- NOSEDIVE BECOMING REALITY!"

Love the thread and responses, thank you for posting this. S&F

originally posted by: DoctorBluechip

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: blend57


Also your score can go down if you have friends online that have a low social score. Basically they are isolating you from everything. A social leper so to speak. I can see the start of this type of social conditioning already in the states. We all know about facebook and twitter banning people for wrong think, but the worst seems Patreon who provided a way for people to pay their favorite creators is now banning people.

It seems to be the trend that damaging information is the most sought , most used, being the most useful towards manipulating individuals later . Low credit score = low cost to society , low pay etc .
The system where people start with a full 12 points, which can only be knocked downwards , not upwards ; that's a trap if ever there was one. When the governements do it you cant back out of it , no reset button

Its going to be a paranoid society while there are traps everywhere , when there are jealous rats and greedy backstabbers around ...even worse .

Oh, I forgot! Also part of China's new system is ratting out those who are not complying! People will be rewarded for snitching out those who might fall under the radar. Traps you say???

a reply to: seeker1963

trap1 /trap/Submit noun 1. a device or enclosure designed to catch and retain animals, typically by allowing entry but not exit or by catching hold of a part of the body. "the squirrels ravaged the saplings, despite the baited traps"

2. a situation in which people lie in wait to make a surprise attack.

verb 1. catch (an animal) in a trap. synonyms: confine, catch, cut off, corner, pin down, drive into a corner, pen, hem in, close in, shut in, hedge in, imprison, hold captive "a rat trapped in a barn"

2. trick or deceive (someone) into doing something contrary to their interests or intentions. "I hoped to trap him into an admission" synonyms: trick, dupe, deceive, cheat, lure, inveigle, beguile, fool, hoodwink, seduce, cajole, wheedle, gull; More

The SCS situation seems very close to being the definition of a trapping . In a way it's what we predators have done for millenia .
They're looking for damaging information in particular - no wonder if rats are rewarded . We've got a sick society developing where the middle classes will fuss over theirs and others scores like semi educated sheep

a reply to: zosimov

I talk quite frequently with my Chinese friends. When I read about this "social score" several years ago I thought the same thing. But that's not the case. They are prevented from getting access to certain apartments, or shopping in certain higher end stores, and can be prevented access from public transportation, according to my sources. But none of my friends know anyone that has been affected this way.

The gist is that these are people that have either committed crimes, or have not paid debts. There's nothing different about this social score than discriminating against criminals or people with bad credit in this country. It's just been quantified and qualified.

The only thing I don't like about the social score rating is that if person A has a high rating and he/she is friends with or has person B in his contacts, who has a low social rating, person A's social rating can suffer.

a reply to: JinMI

I don't have a twitter account either. Reddit, well, I've never really participated on their website. Not that these are bad tools, I just prefer real one on one communication without any restrictions. It is easier to ensure that there aren't any misunderstandings and allows me the freedom to articulate in whatever way I feel is best for the situation.

So I didn't know that these two sites were also banning people for what was once considered regular conversation in addition to facebook. Aren't they all user generated website/applications? Isn't that how they make their money?

Weird that we would support such things in a country that embraces (or used to) freedom of speech. But the whole world is a bit "off" right now, so....

Thanks,
blend

a reply to: seeker1963

So, they are hurting your pocket book if you don't "conform" to the social expectations on their sites?

This little piece I just read interests me:

The ideas behind the social credit system were part of a series of articles (since scrubbed from the Internet) in which Zhou is credited as the author describing a “social management system” to monitor happiness, encourage compliance, and shape decisions that could affect social stability. ...

I wonder if there is any way to find those articles? I know it says they've been scrubbed from the internet, but still, they have to be out there somewhere..right?

thanks,
blend

a reply to: kelbtalfenek

It is good to hear a different perspective.
I am one who wholeheartedly believes that people ("criminals" or not) can change their ways so this system makes me really uncomfortable. And if one takes into consideration that Jesus, Mohammed Ali, Martin Luther King Jr, etc were arrested as criminals, it's clear that when evil people with bad policies are in power, the virtuous are considered subversive.

I have no idea whether the story highlighted in the video I posted in OP is valid, or common, but looks like being the wrong type of journalist or having a religion of any type makes you an enemy of that state.

I'm sure the govt tries to put a pretty spin on it, which is how it is getting away with putting jaywalkers on blast and controlling how many squares of tp you can buy, but it looks awful from my view.

People, you have no idea how many secret "scores" like your credit score are already in place and affecting your life, or likely to affect it in the future. For instance, have any of you heard of your "medication adherence score"?

FICO medication adherence score

NYT article about it

This has been around for a while now. Doesn't sound that bad--a few more annoying emails, phone calls etc.--until you marry it to emerging technology like psych drugs with sensors embedded to track whether you take them or not. Scary #.

a reply to: zosimov

There's a bunch of articles on this rather than relying on one particular viewpoint.

From foreignpolicy.com

china’s sweeping, data-driven “social credit” initiative is sounding alarms. In a speech on Oct. 4, U.S. Vice President Mike Pence described it as “an Orwellian system premised on controlling virtually every facet of human life.” But there’s a small problem. The system doesn’t actually exist—at least as it’s generally portrayed.

It’s not surprising that myths about the system are spreading, given the shrinking space in China for civil society, rights lawyering, speech, investigative journalism, and religious belief; its increasingly ubiquitous, invasive surveillance capability; and the Chinese Communist Party’s push to apply big data and artificial intelligence in governance. China’s party-state is collecting a vast amount of information on its citizens, and its social credit system and other developments internally and overseas raise many serious concerns. But contrary to the mainstream media narrative on this, Chinese authorities are not assigning a single score that will determine every aspect of every citizen’s life—at least not yet.

From The Washington Post

First, using the phrase “social credit system” for this massive Chinese social engineering effort is misleading. We typically associate “credit score” with a credit bureau’s assessment of one’s record of repaying debt. When extending this thinking to social spheres, it is easy to conjure an image of a single credit authority assigning scores to all aspects of one’s social and personal life. However, there is a great deal of confusion and uncertainty on the future direction of this massive social governance project. In a 2014 document, the Chinese government outlined its vision for such a system and noted that it involved four distinct segments: a government trust system, a commercial credit system, a social trust system and a judicial trust system. What drives this gargantuan project is an effort to build a culture of trust in Chinese society. Given this broad aim, a more appropriate term to describe the initiative is a “social trust system.”

And

Indeed, many measures introduced as part of the social trust system are intended to curb official corruption, tackle official dereliction and improve efficiency in enforcing court decisions, as well as punish unethical behaviors of professionals such as lawyers, doctors and teachers. Even local governments can make the nationwide blacklist. More than 480 city- and district-level governments are named. Senior officials from those governments suffer the consequences and can be barred from certain activities, especially high-end consumption like flights or staying in prestigious hotels, which is similar to travel restrictions for those who have filed for bankruptcy in countries like Australia or Singapore.

So it's not all about denying citizens their freedoms, it's about accountability for actions, at least that's how I read it.

a reply to: kelbtalfenek

Those don't do too well to ease any suspicions of misuse of this kind of technology or data.

I like being able to decide for myself who to trust and to learn from the times I make mistakes.

If our government came out telling me who I could or could not trust I'd feel like that was too invasive, that it was making far too many choices for me, and would want it to back off.

And who decides what is unethical behavior to be punished? Is arresting people for the crime of being Muslim ethical or not?

a reply to: zosimov

Well, since you want to make up your own mind, I provided other viewpoints. An educated and well informed decision is often better than a knee-jerk reactive decision. I agree that it's invasive, but it's not as horrific a system as people are claiming it to be (at this point.)

As far as Muslims being arrested, I remember a lot of people in this country wanting to do that ...not that long ago either.

But that's a different topic altogether, and it shouldn't be mixed in with the "Social score" topic, as they are only related by the country in which they happen. If you really want a rabbit hole to go down, check out Chinas organ transplanting. It's the real crime in China.

a reply to: kelbtalfenek

Thank you for taking the time to find and post some extra sources to add to the discussion!



Indeed there were people (in my mind, unethical-- but I would not deny these people access to food or transport as a result) who wanted to persecute Muslim Americans based soley on their religious preferences. We are very lucky for our Constitution and for the general idea we have that people should be able to choose their own spiritual path. People who disagree don't have the law on their side, thankfully.

The video in the OP mentioned the Turkish-Muslim population explicitely because the social score is indeed taking a horrific effect on them. As the video states (and I have been binge-watching documentaries on the subject, most of which seem quite well researched) Uyghers can only achieve an "average" score or less, no higher. This is why I think the topic is quite relevant to our discussion.

a reply to: stosh64

Black Mirror is probably my favorite all time series. You're spot-on to bring up that episode as it relates to the topic.
And thank you for linking that extra info!