Despite criticism and concerns, FDA approves a new opioid 10 times more powerful than fentanyl

a reply to: Asktheanimals


abcnews.go.com...

For acute pain management in a hospital, there hasn’t been a new opioid developed in many, many years,” she told ABC News. Right now, if you broke your femur and went into an emergency room, you would either have to be stuck with a needle or they would just give you an oral pill that you would swallow and kind of wait for it to kick in, which could take up to an hour.” Palmer said there weren’t any opioids available that could dissolve under the tongue for patients who aren’t specifically diagnosed with cancer, experiencing pain, and tolerant to other opioids. “Dsuvia is indicated for… the management of acute pain severe enough to require an opioid analgesic and for which alternative treatments are inadequate,” she said.

From the drug company doctor. Sounds reasonable but unfortunately, humans always abuse things. I'm sure this will help a lot of people. But of course cause problems. Weigh the benefits versus the harm.

a reply to: dug88

It sounds like a suicide pill.

originally posted by: MarlbBlack
a reply to: threeeyesopen

Only thing I can think of is field medic usage, if I was mortally wounded I'd want something rather strong to subside the pain without having a fellow soldier put a bullet in me to end my misery. That's just a thought, I am probably wrong. Never used an opiate so I'm pretty dumb about it all but I do know people who partake and it's sad really.. it's all they want or they are in the worse moods ever.

It is recommended that a health practitioner be on hand to administer narcone in case the patient stops breathing due to the drug. As a field medicine, its requirement for monitoring is less than optimal.

a reply to: dug88

If your injured you may find its not strong enough. People feel pain differently and to some they could take aspirin others need codeine. Depends on the injury and the amount of pain tolerance

a reply to: Asktheanimals

I hear your thoughts, didn't mean in anyway that they do not help when needed. Was just looking at the basic medic and abuse side of substances. Just a quick question have you looked into this or heard of it? Also why in moderate doses could this not be prescribed to the people who actually need it? Just a few questions.

a reply to: dug88

Worry about your parents and grandparents too.

Just found out last week that my 80 year old grandfather is full on addicted to opioids from a surgery he had several years ago. He didn't go to any physical therapy, just took the pills and next thing ya know he was popping them multiple times a day, practically on schedule.

Nobody really knew as grandma covers for him... until he got taken to the hospital (for a separate issue) and the truth starting coming out, or rather, showing it's ugly face when he didn't get his pills.

a reply to: LightSpeedDriver

It's like comparing infinities when you talk about Sufentanil or Carfentanil or fentanyl. Sure one infinity is bigger than the other, but they are both infinity. If an unsuspecting person ends up shooting any of these in a regular size heroin dose they are going to die. Fentanyl alone when measured for injection is done so by the pin head basically until a tremendous tolerance is built up. Even in the other forms of ingestion it is measured in micrograms rather than milligrams, you dig?

You don't worry whether or not you are getting hit by a 100 megaton Nuke or 1000 megaton Nuke, both will kill you.

originally posted by: LightSpeedDriver
a reply to: dug88

Sufentanil (Dsuvia) is 500 times more powerful than morphine. It sounds scary to my non-medically trained ears. Hopefully it will not become available on the black market because people who don't know it is 500 times stronger will die.

Medical MJ

originally posted by: Blue Shift
Some people need heavy drugs to live without being in constant, agonizing pain.
I don't see the problem.

You "don't see the problem"??

originally posted by: MarkOfTheV
a reply to: dug88

Worry about your parents and grandparents too.

Just found out last week that my 80 year old grandfather is full on addicted to opioids from a surgery he had several years ago. He didn't go to any physical therapy, just took the pills and next thing ya know he was popping them multiple times a day, practically on schedule.

Nobody really knew as grandma covers for him... until he got taken to the hospital (for a separate issue) and the truth starting coming out, or rather, showing it's ugly face when he didn't get his pills.

Well luckily for me i guess my dad doesn't like opiates and my mom and all my grandparents are dead....

But ya...retirement homes and even doctors seem to be willing and eager to give the elderly any kind of drugs to keep them quiet and sedated.

When my grandma was alive she had a doctor that did that...luckily my grandma was stubborn and childiah and liked to disobey doctors. It probably kept her alive longer.

My girlfriend's grandmother has a painkiller addiction though. It'a made.her health deteriorate fairly rapidly in the last couple years.

originally posted by: threeeyesopen
a reply to: dug88

The part that I find most interesting is that the Pentagon wanted it to be expedited. Why exactly would the military want such a powerful drug be produced ? Its a powerful painkiller, that in itself could be its own conspiracy.

Look at Opium Production in Afghanistan in 2001 and what it is now.

First they had the Pill Mills. Then close them. Then a lot of folks who were cut-off were then made to buy Heroin on the streets.

(Also see proliferation of "Private Jails/Prisons)

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: MarkOfTheV


At 80 You aren't concerned about Your Grandpas "Quality of Life"? What if He had diabetes? Would You consider Him 'addicted' to diabetes drugs?

I've been on the same dose of Fentanyl™ and Norco™ for 15 years now, why am I not dead?

I'd also recommend some "Kratom"

www.imdb.com...

www.youtube.com...

isum.com...

So lets be honest this is not really anything new. Its been approved for oral form which is new but the drug itself is basically a derivative of fentanyl

Alfentanil, remifentanyl et al are other such types.

The drugs have legit uses. It when they are abused we see the problems.

originally posted by: dug88

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: dug88

Maybe if the military has this drug we won't need to guard the opium crop against the Taliban in Afghanistan anymore.

Why else are we over there anyway? To keep out the Chinese? c'mon. This whole opiate epidemic began when we went over there. Just like the smuggling from the golden triangle during Vietnam. CIA claims they only sell to Russia and Kazakhstan.

Except where would the poppies come from needed to synthesize all the synthetic opiates? Oxycotin and percocets are still made from poppies at least. Though I think the poppies they use for Oxys come from Australia. They have special ones that only produce thebaine and not morphine or codeine.

Opium Poppies produce morphine, thebaine, codeine, papaverine, noscapine and oripavine among others naturally. These are where the opiate derivatives come from.

I don't believe synthetic opiates are made from poppies. That would be semi-synthetic opiates. Fentanyl and I assume this drug also have a more simple structure that can be synthesized economically from other chemicals.

Especially at that potency. Even if it costs a little more to make a pound of the stuff, the fact you can get 500 times more doses makes up for the increased cost. Extra profit margin probably has something to do with the drug cos. desire to sell it.

a reply to: Willtell

A shot or IV works in a few minutes.
I fail to see the advantage of a sublingual pill requiring a medical environment to dispense it.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: dug88

If your injured you may find its not strong enough. People feel pain differently and to some they could take aspirin others need codeine. Depends on the injury and the amount of pain tolerance

That's true. Some drugs like morphine are considered to work for any pain but the dosage may vary.

One thing I've noticed, for myself anyway, is these drugs have a different effect when you have severe pain vs when you don't really need them. It's like the pain absorbs the high. You feel relief from the pain when injured but not really high in the same way as when you are no longer injured.

originally posted by: annoyedpharmacist
having a drug this strong, which can be lethal to human in the micro-gram dosage range, available as a sublingual tablet is VERY dangerous. I hope that this does not make it to the general public, and stays in military specialized usage.......diversion is a huge problem with health care professionals in general these days, so it will make it out on the black market.....it always does.

Thank you so much for an informed opinion on the subject.

I'm more of an herbal type of gal so I've no real idea what the effects of most drugs are now, except that most opioids seem to be over-prescribed and has been a societal problem for some time.

A star for you...

a reply to: MarlbBlack

I've heard of it, to me it just seems ludicrous since people with chronic pain are already having their medications reduced by legislative fiat. I had already reduced mine twice by my own decision, now every 3 months I'm being told we have to keep cutting back more. It doesn't matter that I was losing weight (down to 120lbs) until reaching a stable dosage they are still demanding further reduction. I weighed 150lbs before I became disabled and had very little fat. Wasting away is not my idea of living but I don't have any options. Any activity increases pain but if you don't have anything to take for it you just stop doing everything. I know I'm just 1 of thousands in the same or worse situations. It's like being on a 1,000/cal per day diet and expected to put on weight.

The kicker is last visit the Dr. insisted I start taking an anti-depressant (despite the fact I'm not depressed). I started vomiting within 30 minutes of taking it.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Maybe the sublingual pill is harder to abuse or "work up" into an injection form. Doesn't matter anyway. If it gets popular it will likely be bought from China rather than be diverted from medical supplies. Like fentanyl is now.

a reply to: dug88

The hatred of opiate pain killers seems to me to be very much blaming the victim for the sins of the abusers. There are legitimate merciful uses for these drugs. The lack of self control, pride, and self respect of abusers must not be allowed to prevent those with a legitimate need for the drug from legally being prescribed and buying them.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: dug88

The hatred of opiate pain killers seems to me to be very much blaming the victim for the sins of the abusers. There are legitimate merciful uses for these drugs. The lack of self control, pride, and self respect of abusers must not be allowed to prevent those with a legitimate need for the drug from legally being prescribed and buying them.

Nah...for me at least it comes from 3 years of watching my mom totally #ed on morphine that never really helped her pain from cancer and chemotherapy but took away the last few years of her life. Every day i'd come home from school and she'd be sitting there with her head down nodding out. I'd sit and watch tv with her while she was barely aware of anything that was going on until she'd pass out.

It was definitely better the last year and a half or so after she stopped morphine and started smoking pot for her pain. She got to spend the last part of her life not only pain free but awake and aware of things.

She was never able to stop the ativan though. She quit the morphine straight up cold turkey but could never quit the ativan. That #'s scarily addictive. You can die from benzodiazepine withdrawals. I heartily recommend people avoid those.