Russia 'launches criminal investigation' into rocket failure

originally posted by: samuelsson
a reply to: gortex

It just happened and you already figured it out without looking at any evidence?

Impressive 👌

He said "I see no reason to believe this failure is anything other than statistical."

That's completely true. Until he sees anything telling him otherwise, there is no reason to believe it was a criminal act.

Now, if you want to call manufacturing negligence a "criminal act", that might open the possibility to more than just a random accident. I mean, there is usually a non-random cause to these sorts of things (i.e, an error/problem can usually be pinpointed), although even non-random acts are not ofthen negligent, and even if they were, they may not have had any criminal intent behind them.

Oh wow me thinks the Russians need to revise the pay schedule for the manufacturing and ground crews! This kind of puts an exclamation point on the fact that something isn’t right in the motherland’s space program. All this after the Soyuz that developed an extra speedhole that they’ve gone back to saying couldn’t have happened on the ground. It’s sure nice to know that Russia thinks our spooks are good enough to sabotage their equipment on the ground, it’s a wonder we have problems with any nation with such an unstoppable for e of secret squirrels running free.

a reply to: moebius


LMAO. I wish I was smart enough to make up such a CT! I was just parroting the idea because it needs to be broached as a topic.

www.amazon.com...

So this rocket has a 35 year safety record, first criminal investigation in the post Soviet era, documents seized at launch site, holes being drilled all over the place and we'll just chalk it up to being statistical. Right.

originally posted by: ThankzgivingDinnerz

35 year safety record

Well, statistics be damned.

first criminal investigation in the post Soviet era

There was a criminal investigation into the failed GLONASS launch 2013. Criminal investigations of bigger accidents seem to be standard procedure in Russia.

The Russians cannot be blamed for this. It is the work of “suspicious minds” once “triggered” only God almighty knows “when and where” it ends.

To explain this: they are “suspicious”about the idea surrounding “internal sabotage, micro hole and leaking” finding on ISS.

www.wired.co.uk...

www.independent.co.uk...



Now, they are talking about “Soyuz rocket “and the possibilities of “criminal acts”. Something started and triggered “much earlier than these two incidents” the whole show.

originally posted by: Qboneq
The Russians cannot be blamed for this. It is the work of “suspicious minds” once “triggered” only God almighty knows “when and where” it ends.

To explain this: they are “suspicious”about the idea surrounding “internal sabotage, micro hole and leaking” finding on ISS.

www.wired.co.uk...

www.independent.co.uk...



Now, they are talking about “Soyuz rocket “and the possibilities of “criminal acts”. Something started and triggered “much earlier than these two incidents” the whole show.

How do you know for certain that it can’t be the Russians? You think it’s impossible that their issues of late couldn’t be manufacturing defects? You do realize that there would be ample evidence of the hole in the Soyuz being drilled on station right? There would be metallic shavings and dust collected in the air scrubbers and filters aboard the ISS. This is typical Russian bluster to try to blame this on sabotage before they even have all of the info on the situation Putin has rolled back Russia to the paranoia of the Soviet system during the Cold War. Like in the US many if not all aerospace parts are made by the lowest bidder on contracts and without proper QC the effects of manufacturing flaws can be deadly serious.

You do realize that there would be ample evidence of the hole in the Soyuz being drilled on station right? There would be metallic shavings and dust collected in the air scrubbers and filters aboard the ISS.

I also realize steps could be put in place to avoid this from happening quite easily. Especially if more than one saboteurs are involved.

originally posted by: ThankzgivingDinnerz

You do realize that there would be ample evidence of the hole in the Soyuz being drilled on station right? There would be metallic shavings and dust collected in the air scrubbers and filters aboard the ISS.

I also realize steps could be put in place to avoid this from happening quite easily. Especially if more than one saboteurs are involved.
What steps would those be and why take steps to solve a non existent sabotage problem? Doesn’t do much good blaming the western boogeyman if you can’t fix your in house problems....

originally posted by: BigDave-AR

It could of been a Chinese spy or a Russian agent. I'm not pointing the finger at the west but I don't think we are being told the full story here. To cast aside alternative theories and come to a conclusion that rockets fail because or suggest manufacturing short cuts and QA BEFORE the investigation has completed is foolish.

Maybe it was just shoddy work or a fluke but I will wait for the investigation results and more evidence to surface.

When you get right down to it, the Russians don't need any help sabotaging their own

Russian Launch Failures Aren't a Bug They Are a Feature

RUSSIAN LAUNCH FAILURES, 1988 – 2017
NO. DATE LAUNCH VEHICLE
PAYLOAD(S)
RESULT CAUSE
1 January 18, 1988 Proton-K Blok-DM-2 Gorizont 25L Failure Third stage failure due to disintegration of propellant feed line
2 February 17, 1988 Proton-K Blok-DM-2 Uragan #23, Uragan #24, Uragan #25 Partial Failure Blok D failure caused by ingestion of debris
3 July 09, 1988 Soyuz-U Yantar-4KS1 #10 Failure
4 July 27, 1988 Soyuz-U Resurs-F1 Failure First stage engine failure.
5 November 11, 1988 Soyuz-U Yantar-4KS1 #11 Failure
6 June 9, 1989 Tsiklon-3 Okean-O1 #4 Failure
7 April 3, 1990 Soyuz-U Yantar-4K2 #51 Failure
8 June 21, 1990 Molniya-M (Blok-2BL) Kosmos 2084 Partial Failure Placed in an incorrect orbit. Satellite did not communicate with ground
9 July 3, 1990 Soyuz-U Yantar-4K2 #53 Failure
10. August 9, 1990 Proton-K Blok-DM-2 Ekran-M 14L Failure Third stage lost thrust due to a cleaning rag inside propellant feed system
11 October 4, 1990 Zenit-2 Tselina-2 #8 Failure First stage engine failure five seconds after launch.
12 June 25, 1991 Kosmos-3M Taifun-2 #26 Failure Second stage malfunction
13 August 30, 1991 Zenit-2 Tselina-2 #9 Failure Second stage explosion
14 February 5, 1992 Zenit-2 Tselina-2 #10 Failure Second stage failure
15 May 27, 1993 Proton-K Blok-DM-2 Gorizont 39L Failure Third stage failure
16 May 25, 1994 Tsiklon-3 Tselina-D #69 Failure Software error prevented third stage separation
17 March 28, 1995 Start Gurwin 1, EKV, OSCAR 29 Failure Failed to orbit, crashed into the Sea of Okhotsk
18 October 6, 1995 Kosmos-3M Kosmos 2321 (Parus #84) Partial Failure Second stage malfunction, placed in useless orbit
19 February 19, 1996 Proton-K Blok-DM-2 Raduga 33 Partial Failure Blok-DM-2 upper stage failed to restart to circularize orbit
20 May 14, 1996 Soyuz-U Yantar-1KFT #18 Failure Payload fairing disintegrated in flight
21 June 20, 1996 Soyuz-U Yantar-4K2 #76 Failure Payload fairing disintegrated in flight
22 November 16, 1996 Proton-K Blok-D-2 Mars ’96 Partial Failure Probe re-entered atmosphere after fourth stage failure
23 May 20, 1997 Zenit-2 Tselina-2 #19 Failure First stage failure
24 December 24, 1997 Proton-K Blok-DM3 AsiaSat 3 Partial Failure Fourth stage malfunction prevented satellite from reaching geosynchronous orbit; salvaged with lunar flyby
25 June 15, 1998 Tsiklon-3 Strela-3 #119, Strela-3 #120, Strela-3 #121, Strela-3 #122, Strela-3 #123, Strela-3 #124 Partial Failure Third stage malfunction left satellites in unintended elliptical orbit
26 September 09, 1998 Zenit-2 Globalstar 5, Globalstar 7, Globalstar 9, Globalstar 10, Globalstar 11, Globalstar 12, Globalstar 13, Globalstar 16, Globalstar 17, Globalstar 18, Globalstar 20, Globalstar 21 Failure Second stage shut down after guidance system failed
27 July 05, 1999 Proton-K Briz-M Raduga (34) (Gran 45L) Failure Second stage failure
28 October 27, 1999 Proton-K Blok-DM-2M Ekspress-A 1 Failure Second stage failure
29 December 24, 1999 Rokot-K RVSN 40 Failure Stage-separation fired before launch
30 November 20, 2000 Kosmos-3M QuickBird 1 (QB 1) Failure Second stage failed to ignite
31 December 27, 2000 Tsiklon-3 Gonets 7, Gonets 8, Gonets 9, Strela-3 #125, Strela-3 #126, Strela-3 #127 Failure Third stage failure
32 October 15, 2002 Soyuz-U Foton-M 1 Failure First stage exploded seconds after launch
33 November 25, 2002 Proton-K Blok-DM3 Astra 1K Failure Blok-DM3 left satellite in unusable orbit; spacecraft de-orbited 15 days after launch
34 Dec. 24, 2004 Tsiklon-3 Sich 1M, Micron 1 Partial Failure Booster failed to circularize orbit
35 June 21, 2005 Molniya-M Blok-ML Molniya-3K Failure Third stage failure
36 June 21, 2005 Volna-O Cosmos 1 Failure Cosmos Studios/The Planetary Society solar sail satellite failed to separate from booster third stage
37 August 10, 2005 Rokot Briz-KM Cryosat Failure Second stage failure; crashed in Arctic Ocean north of Greenland
38 February 28, 2006 Proton-M Briz-M Arabsat 4A (Badr 1) Failure Failed to reach usable orbit; de-orbited 24 days after launch
39 July 26, 2006 Dnepr BelKa 1, Baumanets 1, Unisat 4, PicPot, CP 1, CP 2, HAUSAT 1, ICECube 1, ICECube 2, ION, KUTESat-Pathfinder, Mea Huaka’i, MEROPE, Ncube 1, Rincon 1, SACRED SEEDS, AeroCube 1 Failure Engine failure
40 Sept. 5, 2007 Proton-M/Briz-M JCSat 11 Failure Second stage failure; booster and payload crashed in Kazakhstan
41 March 14, 2008 Proton-M/Briz-M AMC 14 Partial Failure Briz-M upper stage shut down 2 minutes early. Owner SES Americom declared satellite a complete loss. AMC 14 sold to US Department of Defense which manuevered into geosynchronous orbit using on-board thrusters.
42 May 21, 2009 Soyuz-2.1a/ Fregat Meridian 2 Failure Second stage shut down early, Fregat upper stage ran out of fuel trying to compensate. Satellite left in useless orbit, declared a loss by Russian military.
43 Dec. 5, 2010 Proton-M/ Blok-DM-3 Uragan-M #739, Uragan-M #740, Uragan-M #741 Failure Rocket failed to reach orbital velocity after upper stage overfilled with propellant.
44 Feb. 1, 2011 Rokot/Briz-KM Geo-IK-2 No. 11 Failure Upper stage malfunction.
45 Aug. 17, 2011 Proton-M/ Briz-M Ekspress AM4
Failure Briz-M upper stage suffered failure of attitude control.
46 Aug. 24, 2011 Soyuz-U Progress M-12 Failure Third stage failure due to turbo-pump duct blockage.
47 Nov. 8, 2011 Zenit-2SB/ Fregat Phobos-Grunt
Yinghuo-1 Failure Zenit placed Phobos-Grunt in proper orbit. Spacecraft stranded in Earth orbit after Fregat failed to fire.
48 Dec. 23, 2011 Soyuz-2.1b/ Fregat Meridian 5 Failure Third stage failure.
49 Aug. 6, 2012 Proton-M/ Briz-M Telkom-3, Ekspress MD2 Failure Briz-M upper stage failed 7 seconds into its third burn.
50 Dec. 8, 2012 Proton-M/ Briz-M Yamal-402 Partial Failure Briz-M upper stage shut down 4 minutes earlier than planned on fourth burn. Spacecraft reached intended orbit under own power.
51 Jan. 15, 2013 Rokot/Briz-KM Kosmos 2482, Kosmos 2483, Kosmos 2484 Partial Failure Upper stage failed near time of spacecraft separation; one satellite destroyed.
52 Feb. 1, 2013 Zenit-3SL (Sea Launch)
Intelsat 27 Failure First stage failure.
53 July 2, 2013 Proton-M/DM-03 Uragan-M #748, Uragan-M #749,
Uragan-M #750 Failure First stage failure.
54 May 15, 2014 Proton-M/Briz-M Ekspress AM4R Failure Proton third stage vernier engine failure due to turbo-pump leak.
55 Aug. 14, 2014 Soyuz-STB/ Fregat Galileo FOC-1, Galileo FOC-2 Partial Failure Satellites placed in wrong orbits due to freezing of hydrazine in Fregat upper stage. Satellites made operational as part of Europe’s Galileo navigation constellation.
56 April 28, 2015 Soyuz-2.1a Progress 59P Failure Third stage failure left Progress in uncontrollable tumble.
57 May 16, 2015 Proton/Briz-M MexSat-1 Failure Third stage failure anomaly.
58 December 5, 2015 Soyuz-2.1v/ Volga Kanopus ST
KYuA 1 Partial Failure Primary payload Kanopus ST remained attached to upper stage, later burned up in atmosphere. Secondary payload KYuA 1 deployed successfully.
59 December 1, 2016 Soyuz U Progress MS-04 Failure Third stage failure. Progress supply ship burned up in atmosphere.
60 November 28, 2017 Soyuz 2-1b Meteor-M 2-1, 18 CubeSats Failure Fregat upper stage failure.
I’ve included some launches of some boosters such as Zenit and Dnepr boosters that were not totally Russian.

a reply to: vinifalou

in not saying all these incidents occured as criminal, superpowers are trying to push the idea of a need for **nephelum aka space army.

a reply to: neo96

they are helping america win which in turn leads to just about every culture ethnicity & religion winning as well because they live in america & want the whole world to prosper here too.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: SatansPride

If it's a space race.

Musk,Bezos, Branson aim to win it.

Sure, but the reason SpaceX, etc. are spending the money to develop spacecraft in the first place is because NASA paid them a big contract to do so.

I don't think we would have the Dragon Capsule and the Falcon 9 today (maybe someday, but not today) if it wasn't for NASA's COTS (Commercial Orbital Transport System) or the CCDev (Commercial Crew Development) Program paying them billions of dollars in the first place.

SpaceX took that kernel of what might amount to "seed money" from those NASA contracts to further develop things like the Falcon Heavy.

And that was the very point of NASA's COTS and CCDev programs --- i.e., to inject money into the commercial space industry in order to give private companies a reason to develop spacecraft and launch systems.