A story from the past and why it´s so important to not just blindly follow any ideology.

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
As Vers said in his OP part of the German education system now is mandatory indoctrination on how bad Germans and Germany was during WW2.

Here are some facts:
-It´s mandatory through through compulsory school attendance (we have that, too).
-It start´s in 9th or 10th grade and today it´s about 2 school hours (each 45 minutes) per Week for almost a full year (2005)
-It´s not really directly infering guilt but high awareness. You learn his youth, what WW1 had to do with it, the black friday in 1929, how the US were getting involved, nothing about japan, a short summary on repayments about Jews, how it all ended and how furious and brutal the russian soldiers were, but that last part may be from my teacher (in the 70s) personal opinion.

The setting is very stern.

Germans have literally been programmed to accept that they are racist and that this is the worst possible thing a human could be. To not completely accept this or to question it in anyway is the biggest and baddest taboo that exists there.

It’s actually really sad

No, no, no, you got that wrong. We (as Germans) actually know better what racism is and what not, than most others, today this is more true than ever, looking at this forum. We don´t toss that term around like everyone else, because to us there is actually history behind that.

Whenever, I see somewhere using the word "racism" on the internet about petty topics, I internally facepalm. It makes me loose respect because they have no idea what they are talking about. We had classes about that and they know it from a dictionary but think they know "#".

That´s sad!

a reply to: skunkape23
a reply to: Fools

Please stick to the topic "the message" and refrain from general discussions about Germany.
If you want to discuss "the message" in relation to Germany or WW2 that is perfectly inside the topic.

Ask yourself if you understood what this thread is about.

a reply to: JHumm


I agree, We see this in the states all the time. It's most blatant in the political system through media / social media as people entrenching their belief / ideology in to a political party. Seems like to majority of Americans don't want to think for themselves anymore or make their own dissensions. So yes, I think the vast majority of Americans have been brainwashed in one way or another.

~Morpheus

a reply to: verschickter
Your looking on only one aspect to try and explain the whole. You must look on the context of the people as a whole.
In the 1920s and 1930s Germany was in a very deep recession, people were suffering and in that context any, and I mean any, lifeline that would solve their problems would be grasped.
Hitler played these cards to gain support, through lies and distortions, but the majority went for it. Now when he got into power he wheedled more power till he had complete control. THEN he enacted his agenda and for the ordinary Germans it was too late to back away as then if you were caught dissenting you would suffer whatever they wanted to do with you. As what is already been said, you could not trust your own neighbour.
It's exactly the same mindset today with the majority of people of all countries "If in does not involve me personally I don't want to know"."Let someone else deal with it".

originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: verschickter
Your looking on only one aspect to try and explain the whole. You must look on the context of the people as a whole.
In the 1920s and 1930s Germany was in a very deep recession, people were suffering and in that context any, and I mean any, lifeline that would solve their problems would be grasped.
Hitler played these cards to gain support, through lies and distortions, but the majority went for it. Now when he got into power he wheedled more power till he had complete control. THEN he enacted his agenda and for the ordinary Germans it was too late to back away as then if you were caught dissenting you would suffer whatever they wanted to do with you. As what is already been said, you could not trust your own neighbour.
It's exactly the same mindset today with the majority of people of all countries "If in does not involve me personally I don't want to know"."Let someone else deal with it".

I´m not trying to explain anything about WW2. It was a detail that helps explaining what the people went through and to give the reader a small impression about how life was back then. In order to understand why the moment when he told me this, was so intense and important. Not to explain history 100% correct with sources.

This is not a thread about history and I do not claim factual correctness, I thought I made that clear enough (see OP).

Anyways, you took the time to write that all down to clear smth. up that was factual wrong and I aprreciate that.

Something that can be applied to the present:

... people were suffering and in that context any, and I mean any, lifeline that would solve their problems would be grasped. Hitler played these cards to gain support, through lies and distortions, but the majority went for it.

Replace Hitler with any kind of political group and that´s exactly how it´s working today. Only this time, it´s not a single poplulation in terms of citizens of a country but political standpoints. And their methods are far more sophisticated through our means of communication.

So today we have not a single group but many different lobbies. All using the same tacting and the individual sheep who blindly assign to those fixed frameworks are sooner or later in a kind of lock in.

That´s what I ment with can´t change bases.

Metaphor (sort of)
It´s like the people are water-molecules in a pond and the different lobbies are the sponges. You throw them in and sooner or later there will just be a few waterdrops untouched.

Either you come into contact with the sponge naturally (you assign) or you get pushed towards one or another sponges by other watermolecules (putting others into drawers/categories).

I know, it´s written way to complicated

originally posted by: crayzeed

Hitler played these cards to gain support, through lies and distortions, but the majority went for it. Now when he got into power he wheedled more power till he had complete control. THEN he enacted his agenda and for the ordinary Germans it was too late to back away as then if you were caught dissenting you would suffer whatever they wanted to do with you. As what is already been said, you could not trust your own neighbour.
It's exactly the same mindset today with the majority of people of all countries "If in does not involve me personally I don't want to know"."Let someone else deal with it".

Lol!!

I read your post like this....

The EU played these cards to gain support, through lies and distortions, but the majority went for it. Now when it got into power it wheedled more power till they had complete control. THEN they enacted their agenda and for the ordinary members it was too late to back away as then if you were caught dissenting you would suffer whatever they wanted to do with you. As what is already been said, you could not trust your own neighbour.


If the cap fits

a reply to: eletheia
Do not make such a trite comment comparing then and now. If you dissented in Germany in those days you actually got killed. It bears no resemblance to the EU or how anyone has suffered in the EU.

a reply to: crayzeed

She´s not that far from the truth, except the "can do what they want with you".

Today it works a bit different. You saw what they did with Assange and others. Let´s ignore what they did and if it was right or wrong for a moment.

But you saw what they can do. How easy would it be to ruin someones life by buying a witness to testify the worst about you. Two weeks later your life is ruined, the public and probably everyone you trusted is after you.

Another month later, before the witness used up all the money and will come back for more money... car accident, slipped in the shower... It´s not paranoid to acknowledge this is reality and very doable if you know the right people.

a reply to: verschickter
That's correct for virtually all countries. The difference is they do it underhanded where as Hitler when in full power did it openly therefore spreading more fear for the rest not to oppose him.

originally posted by: crayzeed
Do not make such a trite comment comparing then and now. If you dissented in Germany in those days you actually got killed. It bears no resemblance to the EU or how anyone has suffered in the EU.

Look at it any way you like, but it's the same principle .......

One is a quick grab and the other, 'softly softly catchee monkey'

The end game is the same.....

originally posted by: verschickter
a reply to: Grimmley

Do you know awkward situations where you have answer to questions like:
"Why do you protect him/her now, I thought that you can´t stand the person".

and then you have to give an answer like:
"Because what you said about him/her is not true."

Then you get crazy looks like
"WTF, we know that but we hate him/her so who gives a # if it´s true/false/unjust (whatever)"

"Yeah, obviously, I do still care about the truth being told".

I really don´t get the fuss here, am I to Spock-like / logical with this?

And then you have to explain yourself why you won´t tolerate lies even on the one you despise. This was just an example and not an acutal conversation with friends but I hope you get the drift.

I understand completely. I even did that with when it came to the former president, mind you I did not like at all, he did enough on his own to upset people, but I still called people out when they completely fabricated stuff.

originally posted by: ManFromEurope

originally posted by: Fools
What is your opinion of Merkel flooding your nation with immigrants?

Interesting question, and although I do not think that it has much to do with Verschickter's topic (to which I could write on my own account, but it would come mostly to the same conclusion and events happening), I would like to try an answer:

Why do you care about this?

Does your perceived image of a Germany "flooded with immigrants" have any kind of impact on your own life? We deal with it, and its not a flood, thank you.

Do not listen to all the lies.

I think it matters. It is why I care. I think that EU nations engaged in this odd immigrant policy behavior have no idea why they are doing it other for some backward thinking "do good optics".

I see youtube video after video of young German ladies getting accosted and fearing simple tasks that involve walking outside of their homes. Is this what you want? Does it mean that since it doesn't happen to you that it isn't happening? You deal with it you say, how?

I suppose in a weird way how the ladies are being treated in Germany (in places where muslims have began to actually be thick) might be a little schadenfruende against the "feminist" culture of regular "white" Europeans? Just exactly what is it that makes all of western civilization freeze in response to these sort of things?

I will take all bigot comments toward my bigoted comment with deep regard/pleasure.

a reply to: Fools

Your comment isn´t bigoted, it´s just slightly offtopic. I actually look at this issue in a very similar manner. I made my share of really bad experiences as did some friends and relatives. Granted, we were living near one of the hotspots.

It´s still not pleasant. It´s a huge culture shock for both us Germans and the immigrants. What I´ve seen with my own eyes is that many believe this is la-la land because they were lied to and gullible enough to believe it.

I won´t regret saying that I dislike the picture of those people sitting in my lawn, eating smelly stuff out of plastic bags with their hands, being oblivious loud and then let their waste lay around.

The moment you hear foreign voices screaming around in the middle of the night because they are up for some nonesense.

Don´t get me wrong, I went to arabic countries for years, I know the arabic muslim culture. I´m not a racist but the refugees you see on the street don´t leave good impressions. I know there are geniune help seeking people and they are terrorized by other refugees, this as to stop, too.

And if you went to refugee center regulary because you even help, then you notice as soon as they get here they get pregnant. You come back 6 months later and see baby-bellys everywhere. I don´t deny them to have kids, but I know exactly what it enables them.

My 2 cents.

a reply to: verschickter

I see, I thnk I was lost in translation I suppose. It's a big problem. Maybe not for now, but it will be in some time soon. I mean it would be one thing if the best of other cultures were attracted to your culture, or say that Germany (or the USA for that matter) had vast lands that needed to be civilized, but that just is not the case anymore.

This current push is this weird sick push to "feel good" about colonialism or something. Look how South Africa is dealing with that problem right now.

To me, we better all start to man up, the science fiction BS we have all been fed for 50 plus years is obviously BS that is not only BS but BS that will choke us and smother us.

So we can end the delusions now, or have us, or our children suffer very physical consequences at some point in the near future.

Those of you that find me a bigot, I really don't care anymore. So name me all you want - I have studied for decades, I see it coming and it is coming.

originally posted by: Fools
I mean it would be one thing if the best of other cultures were attracted to your culture, or say that Germany (or the USA for that matter) had vast lands that needed to be civilized, but that just is not the case anymore.

Something to consider:

Germany is about 19 times smaller than the USA while it has only about 4 times less inhabitants.

Inhabitants per sq km in Germany: 231,3
Inhabitants per sq km in the USA: 32,9

So there is that.