US complaining of election meddling we are a large offender

After a year out, I still see a large narrative behind the "Russia meddling". I'm not hear to argue whether it happened, personally I think it did, but I doubt it changed the results. And if it had, we'd still be having the same discussion against Hillary considering they helped her dossier against Trump... And that's why they did what they did, to create distrust. But I digress.

How are we supposed to act like this is the crime of the century?

The U.S. has a long history of attempting to influence presidential elections in other countries – it's done so as many as 81 times between 1946 and 2000, according to a database amassed by political scientist Dov Levin of Carnegie Mellon University.

That number doesn't include military coups and regime change efforts following the election of candidates the U.S. didn't like, notably those in Iran, Guatemala and Chile. Nor does it include general assistance with the electoral process, such as election monitoring.

In 59% of these cases, the side that received assistance came to power, although Levin estimates the average effect of "partisan electoral interventions" to be only about a 3% increase in vote share.

LA Times

So a year of pointless arguing... It's still a big point of contention obstructing any kind of national progress, unity or even the ability to move past something that is done.

If anything they accomplished they're mission exceedingly with the help of American citizens being so blindingly polarized.

Our move.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Well, as someone who do think Russia meddled, I must nevertheless admit you make a hell of a good point.

S+F mate

a reply to: CriticalStinker


President Trump told Lester Holt that the U.S. "is not so innocent" in a lot of global interactions.

Gotta love a President who speaks the truth and doesn't care if snowflakes are offended by it.

a reply to: swanne

We live in a society of free speech... Further more we allow unlimited money to influence campaigns.

Instead of being surprised Russia meddled, maybe be outraged more actors did with more money and influence we the people have.

IF Russia did meddle.

It was more likely payback for Ukraine.

or payback from the last president meddling in Israel's election.

Or the dozens over the decades in various parts of the globe.

a reply to: neo96

Well, Russia did try to create a fifth column in the USA ever since the 70s, if I remember rightly. Remember the CPUSA party, funded by Russia, back then?

So, I don't know.

Looks to me like governments (may it be US or Russia) don't change much with time, hehe.

a reply to: swanne

I know the electoral college can't be hacked.

Word has it that CLinton got more votes than Trump.

So why they've been whining for a year is beyond me.

a reply to: neo96

I have heard the same, indeed.

Ah, well, the next president is most likely to be from the Left, so I guess they can't whine forever.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
If anything they accomplished they're mission exceedingly with the help of American citizens being so blindingly polarized.
..
Our move.

There's a big difference.

When the US meddles in other countries, it's for all the right reasons. Bringing freedom and justice to the world.

When foreign nations meddle in the US, it's for all the wrong reasons, to undermine our democracy and question our authority to play the policeman of the world.

See?

It's the same thing like when cops shoot criminals, it's because they are just doing their jobs. But, when criminals shoot back at cops, it's to prevent the cops from doing good.

a reply to: AMPTAH

Your sarcasm made my day

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
If anything they accomplished they're mission exceedingly with the help of American citizens being so blindingly polarized.
..
Our move.

When the US meddles in other countries, it's for all the right reasons. Bringing freedom and justice to the world.

Oh yeah, and George Bush was speaking wisdom when he claimed God told him to invade Iraq.

"Just totally shut your mind off to the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent citizens... little peasant!"

"If you even dare to oppose it, you must just hate freedom & God and are obviously anti-American".

Blah,blah, blah...

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Oh yeah, and George Bush was speaking wisdom when he claimed God told him to invade Iraq.

Actually, it was a bipartisan vote from Congress that told him he could.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

No doubt the U.S. has been a big offender when it comes to influencing foreign elections and supporting dictators that serve our interests. The U.S. didn't find itself involved in the Middle East conflicts by chance! Our foreign policy has stuck its nose where it doesn't belong. If we didn't get so involved in the Middle East, does anyone think 911 would have ever happened? The U.S. invited terrorism the minute it started trying to influence the Middle East all in the name of oil and for supporting Israel's conflicts with the Palestinians.

However, our wrongs and Russia's wrongs doesn't make it right. No country should be influencing any country's elections. Our representatives have known about the U.S. influencing foreign elections and supporting dictators for years. They're the ones who approve these foreign policies. The blame should fall squarely on them, the CIA and past presidents. As always, our representatives are never held accountable to the people. Ask yourselves, what reason are we still in Afghanistan? The cesspool in the Middle East should be settled among themselves and regional neighboring countries, not by the U.S. nor Russia.

SORRY, DOUBLE POST

The Netherlands and Italy are very busy interfering with each other elections at the moment, under the request of the of Mattarella and the King of the Netherlands himself. It's a bit like NATO spy agencies, they spy on each other under request of the target!

Now they interfere in each other elections under request of the "recipient" of interference. When the counter espionage of the "recipient" country discovers there's something strange with foreign meddling, the political clowns go to the TV and start blaming Russia.

All they are doing actually is: operating on a transnational oligarchical "Bilderberg" model.

For example: If France's oligarchs want to make sure Macron gets elected, the french oligarchs and political class, asks other EU countries (Italy, UK and Germany mostly) to meddle in the french elections using other countries' spy agencies.

When the French counter espionage discovers that somebody from outside is meddling in the French election, the political clowns immediately muddy the waters and forbid them from further investigation.
Instead ... Macron comes out and starts shouting the notorious litany

Bump because this topic is extremely important, accurate and relevant.

Glad to see someone else pointing this out.

Maybe they are testing our mettle?

meddling in our mettle?

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Well don't worry. I'm sure when God tells Oprah to run for president, God will be just cool with you then.

a reply to: ketsuko

Gods "just cool with me" already... just so long as he stays away from idiotic political ideologies.

“Women’s rights are human rights,” Clinton famously declared. But in Honduras, she worked to legitimize the overthrow of a government that was trying to make the morning-after pill available and advance the rights of members of the LGBT community. In so doing, Clinton helped install a regime that has been killing women and men at an impressive clip. Death squads have returned to the country.

...

At the same time that Clinton’s State Department was lauding Colombia’s human rights record [despite having evidence to the contrary], her family was forging a financial relationship with Pacific Rubiales, the sprawling Canadian petroleum company at the center of Colombia’s labor strife. The Clintons were also developing commercial ties with the oil giant’s founder, Canadian financier Frank Giustra, who now occupies a seat on the board of the Clinton Foundation, the family’s global philanthropic empire.

The details of these financial dealings remain murky, but this much is clear: After millions of dollars were pledged by the oil company to the Clinton Foundation—supplemented by millions more from Giustra himself—Secretary Clinton abruptly changed her position on the controversial U.S.-Colombia trade pact.

...

Haiti may be the nation most vulnerable to the psychopathologies of Clintonian political economy and philanthropy. There’s too much to say about the Clintons’ grip on Haiti, so I’ll just point readers to the best of the reporting. Here’s Ted Hamm, “How Hillary Helped Ruin Haiti”; Jonathan Katz’s “The Clintons’ Haiti Screw Up” and “The King and Queen of Haiti”; The New York Times on the topic; and Isabel Macdonald and Isabeau Doucet, in The Nation, on those formaldehyde-laced trailer homes the Clinton Foundation sent to Haiti after the earthquake. And here’s Bill Clinton himself, apologizing for forcing Jean-Bertrand Aristide to implement neoliberal economic policies that destroyed Haiti’s ability to produce its own rice: “It may have been good for some of my farmers in Arkansas, but it has not worked. It was a mistake. It was a mistake that I was a party to. I am not pointing the finger at anybody. I did that. I have to live every day with the consequences of the lost capacity to produce a rice crop in Haiti to feed those people, because of what I did. Nobody else.”

...

Honduras wasn’t the only Latin American country to suffer a “constitutional coup” (the overthrow of an elected leader through formally legal mechanisms) under Clinton’s State Department watch. In Paraguay, a leftist former Catholic priest, Fernando Lugo, was removed from office at the behest of his agroindustry opponents. Nearly all other Latin American nations called it a coup. But not Clinton’s State Department, which quickly recognized the new government.

The Naiton

But, ya know... Russians!