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The ethics of calling the dead

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posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 04:50 PM
Is mediumship ethical? Should we really be calling the dead from their spiritual abodes? Does that affect them adversely, can it make them earth-bound?

posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 05:01 PM
Dead Shift

Speaking as a former sorceror of admittedly short tenure, and as a novice mystic of limited sight who is convinced we are all prisoners of our own illusions, take this for what it's worth.

As far as I can tell, no one spirit, corporeal or otherwise, can actually compel any other spirit to do anything.

However, spirits can deceive other spirits into believing they are compelled. The distinction may seem academic, but it's crucial.

Basically, from a spiritual standpoint, there are no unwilling servants. They may serve others out of fear or ignorance, but the choice to not do so always remains with them.

Thus if any spirit becomes “earth-bound”, it is because that spirit has – wittingly or unwittingly – chosen to stay here.

YSMMV (Your Spiritual Mileage May Vary)

posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 05:42 PM
Yet, does that not mean that we influence the spirits and thus partake in deciding it's destiny? I'll give you an example. Suppose you have have a nicotine addiction, and you are trying your level best by abstaining from nicotine by staying away from it. You are just about to overcome it, when suddenly someone throws a pack of cigs your way. Therefore that someone has become a force of antagonism for you.

A soul who is breaking free of worldly desire and ascending into the higher spiritual planes, to then be tugged back into the earthly world for selfish reasons of other people; isn't that not even slightly unethical?

[edit on 13-2-2005 by Indigo_Child]

posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 05:59 PM
Sometimes its not a question of calling them, sometimes they come to you. I avoid the spiritual world like a plague. I have enough on my hands just dealing with my everyday life.

Still, sometimes it can throw you a curve. Here's a little story about my ventures into the spiritual.

Every journey into nothingness must begin with something real, if only to the one on the journey. That’s not a difficult concept for most people but try explaining it to someone who is dead, That even though they are still real the body that once was theirs is no longer, that its time to move on. It can get tricky at times.

These things came to me on an evening when all had been quiet. I had incense burning on my small alter as I meditated silently before it. Three candles lit the scene as I sat and quieted my mind from the day’s events.

Then she entered the room.

Rising from the floor I turned to face her, my shadow moving across the walls from the reflections of the candles. I could not see her, but I knew she watched me with intensity, I could feel it. Extending my arms out, palms up I whispered across the room, “Take my hands, let us talk.”

I felt a warmness begin in my palms, then work its way slowly up my arms and spread onto my chest. Gently I pushed her away and backed away myself. This is not how it’s supposed to be. Something is wrong.

There is coldness to the spiritual world, a deep hollow coldness that shivers the bones of the living. It can stand the hair up on your neck with just its closeness, you don’t even have to actually feel it against your skin, and your soul will sense it.

“Please.” I asked. “Can you speak?”

She stood directly before me, an ember that burned my soul and made sweat slip from my temple, yet she said nothing. My breathing was picking up and I had to make a conscious effort to slow it. I was not in danger, this much I knew. I just didn’t understand what was happening.

“OK, step away.” I whispered. “If you can’t come to me then I’m going to come to you.”

My mind raced with the clear understanding that I had lost it. No, You don’t enter the unknown unless you know what and why, which makes it the known. That actually makes sense when you’ve gone crazy. Yet I had to find a way to communicate, I had to find out what was wrong here.

Kneeling before my alter I invoked every guardian, archangel and spiritual karma seeker to protect me as I began to slip into a meditative state. This wasn’t just any state I was seeking as I slowed my heart and breathing as far as I safely could. With a slight turn to my left I slipped my mortal body and rose to face the one who had disturbed my home. Others were now around me, I was being protected.

Dark hair that flowed around an olive skin greeted me. She stood maybe 5’4” and weighed nothing as she hovered in the corner. In life she had never graced the cover of a magazine but she was beautiful non the less. I slowly began to move towards her.

“If you try anything.” I said, letting my warning trail off.

“I mean you no harm.” She replied. “It’s been so long since I’ve spoken with anyone.” She had tears on her cheeks. Again I extended my arms and she moved into them. Her warmth flooded thru my soul and I almost back away a second time but didn’t. I decided I’d just have to learn to deal with it.

What I knew so far was that she was dead. People who are alive and leave their bodies always have a strand that will lead them back, as if a tether to their mortal self. She did not have one. Glancing over my shoulder I made damn sure I did. Yet I felt death nowhere in this room. What I was experiencing could not, at least to my understanding, be happening.

Holding her close I had to ask, “What keeps you in this place?”

“It’s not my time to go.” She replied, looking up at me and smiling.

I knew this one wouldn’t be easy. I was going to have to convince her that it was her time. Hell, her time had already passed. Nothing can stop the growth of the eternal soul, but nothing could be gained by staying in the classroom when school had been let out for summer either.

“I want you to just hold me.” She said. “I’ve been alone for so long and need to just be with someone.”

“You’re supposed to be with others.” I told her. “They are waiting for you. If you free yourself to move on, you will find more people wanting to hug you than I’d ever be able to provide. You can free yourself, it’s just a choice.”

“Really?” She asked. Our vibrations had seemed to come together, as if in sync. Her heat was boiling my very soul yet I felt as though I’d rather die than move away. Surely I would be warned if I were in danger, yet no warnings could I detect.

“I give you my word I will move on.” She said, “If first you’ll do one thing for me.”

I was feeling incredible. Warm, safe and at peace with this stranger, I said the only thing I could. “Just name it.”

And she was in me. I was in her. Lost in a tumult of emotion and desire we spiraled thru both time and each other. Where she began and I ended was no longer a part of anything we had known. Pure love wrapped in spiritual entrapment and carnal lust took the one that we were beyond all possible feelings of the human coil, we were everything and everything was us. Beyond the stars we soared and beneath the earth we crawled as light and darkness blended into the gray that inevitably defines truth to the limited mind. How long this lasted I know not, for bliss will always end far too soon, and so we came to rest on the dark carpet of a room I did not know.

“I want to do that again.” I said.

She rolled her head to look at me with a weak but happy smile and said, “men.”

Slowly I rose to a sitting position and noticed my cord was still in place. I couldn’t believe I was still alive after that, but happy to be so.

“I need to show you something.” She said, rising from the floor and moving to the lone bed in the room.

I rose as well, not sure what to expect.

Though her soul stood beside me the remains of her body lay in the bed. A feeding tube was down her throat, a catheter removed her waste and a heart machine beat a terrible rhythm of a life prolonged.

“You’re alive!” I said.

“Not really.” She replied. “ I had an accident when I was 20. My body has been alive for twelve years, lying there. I haven’t been attached to it though. I taught myself to leave it and wonder about, never expecting to meet someone who I could actually talk to.”

That explained why she was warm, why I had trouble at first communicating with her. Why she had no cord attaching her to this body. Hell, She was alive!

I laughed. “I’m not that great for company my dear but it looks like it will be me and you for awhile.”

She just looked at me and gave a sad smile back, then said, “You were right, this is my choice. Besides, I gave you my word.”

“No.” I said. I knew at once what she meant. As if she hadn’t heard me she lay down within the body on the bed.

“NO!” I shouted, “YOU CAN’T DO THIS!” But she did. Instantly the monitor that recorded her heartbeats began to ring, then it flat lined.

“NO, NO, NO!” I screamed but nothing could stop the ringing of the machine or the voices that began yelling up and down the halls outside her room. I was being pulled away, I wanted to stay, to fight for her, but with every effort to remain, stronger forces were making me leave.

I felt it then, the horrible chill of death that comes for each of us. I would fight it, I would fight, I would,

Instantly I found myself back in my own body. In sheer anger I struck out and knocked the alter before me across the room. I was crying. I couldn’t stop. She wasn’t dead.

Marylyn was laid to rest on a warm autumn day earlier this very year in my hometown. I can’t stand going to funerals but I made sure to go to hers. I felt responsible somehow for her death. She would still be alive, though trapped in a body that didn’t respond, if she had not come across me.

I waited for days, then weeks, to see if she would come along just to say goodbye. She never did. I guess some places you’re so happy to leave you don’t worry about goodbyes, You’re willing to take the chance that we’ll meet again. Until that day Marylyn, I wish you hugs.

Love and light,


posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 06:06 PM
Damn, I'm in this forum again...I need to work on this.....
Aaaaaanyway, I have never understood the attraction to calling the dead, I don't understand it, I see no reason for it at all, and I think it's unethical to do so....I get a lot of flack because people think that just because you may be a Witch, I would think it's perfectly fine...many, many Witches do not bother the dead. I think most people that do, are on a power trip of some sort! Just because one may be able to do so, doesn't make it ethical.....I think most people that know themselves, their craft, their spirituality, don't feel the need to do many things that the inexperienced "want" to see it in this forum all the time!

posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 06:08 PM

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Is mediumship ethical? Should we really be calling the dead from their spiritual abodes? Does that affect them adversely, can it make them earth-bound?

Quite an interesting question. I shall try to shed what light upon it that I can.

Mediumship is a two sided coin. It can be ethical in one regard, yet unethical in another. It depends on your means of calling to the entity that you wish to channel. It can be ethical if you call to the spirit world in general, of even to a particular entity and ask if they are willing to channel through you. If the entity agrees, then it is a mutually beneficial situation. The entity can say whatever it is they need to say, and usually, since you afforded it this opportunity, they are often willing to answer what questions you may have of it.

On the unethical side, however, an entity can be forced to channel. There are several methods to this, which I will not go into here, because I do feel it to be unethical, however, I will state that it is possible. If an entity if forced to channel through you, or to gate to the physical world for questioning, it's typically viewed as a grave injustice to the entity, since you are inhibiting its free will. You can glean information using this method, but often the information is told in half truths or riddles, so as to skew the final interpretation. An entity forced to appear is never happy about it.

As far as "should we be calling them", that all depends on your methods and intent. If you are calling to an ancestor for guidance, and giving them the choice to appear, then yes, there's no harm in it. If they choose not to appear, then that's because they had a reason for not appearing. Typically, an ancestor will appear willingly, however. If you desire to force an entity to appear, then no, you should not be disturbing them. Once they are free of your bonds, there is often a retaliation of some sort, typically resulting in bad things for the summoner.

Adverse reactions to the entity are uncommon, both in asked and forced appearances. The only adverse affect typically noted, as I stated above, is to the summoner in cases of a forced summoning.

To "can it make them earth-bound", the answer is no. A summoning in and of itself, wether asked or forced, will allow the entity to return to the spirit world once the summoning is complete. However, in many cases, if the summoning is forced, the summoner often has ulterior motives, and will often bind the entity to an earth-bound object or somehow prevent the summoned entity from harming them. Occasionally, it is these ulterior motives that will cause a spirit to remain at least somewhat, if not fully, earth-bound.

To sum it up, if your motives are just, and your methods respect their free will, it's a perfectly safe thing (unless you're trying to summon dark entities, and then that's up to whatever you summon - I don't recommend this at all). Stick to ancestors and other neutral or light entities that you are only seeking for answers. These are the ones most likely to afford you no ill effects.

posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 06:11 PM
Mrwupy, that was a very beautiful story. It really touched me. Thank you.

posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 06:19 PM
Thank you Indigo. There is a link at the bottom of my posts if you'd like to read about any of my other spiritual adventures.

I try to avoid them but they just keep hunting me down.

Love and light,


posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 06:25 PM

What you tell here is a fascinating story, that is not as uncommon as you think. Even though a body may live, a person may be dead. It is as it was in your story. These souls are looking for rest, yet cannot find it through man's medicine. A soul such as this would have been much happier at rest, and the fact that you were able to find this soul rest is certainly a very noble gesture. You did not cause her death. She was already dead, though through modern medicine, her body could not die, and all she longed for was peace. Her soul had already disconnected from her body, and you showed her that it was okay to return home. You did a very wonderful thing here, and I'm glad that you shared this story.

As I've said through many posts, death is not something to be feared, for when it is time for your mortal body to cease, then it is time for your soul to return home, to the realm from which we are all born, that of the spirits. You thought correctly in this case. Her time had already passed, though her body would not die. Life is not living when the body is irresponsive, and the soul has tried to move on. I commend you on your noble actions here.

Walk in peace, and know that you have done no wrong.

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