More tax plan information for middle working class families...

a reply to: LightSpeedDriver


I think it is very important to point out that countries with healthcare like Netherlands, Canada and Germany have a significantly smaller population than the United States.

Germany: 81.41 million
Netherlands: 16.94 million
Canada: 35.85 million
Sweden: 9.80 million
Cuba: 11.39 million
Venezuela: 31.11 million

Adding all of these countries together doesn't even come close to our population, though. Barely half, if my math skills haven't failed me.

USA: 323.95 million

That damned ObamaCare Individual Mandate blackmail tool is going away too. More relief for the middle class!

a reply to: JBurns

I understand the difference in numbers but that's why it is called (depending on location) national healthcare, global healthcare or universal healthcare. It doesn't (or shouldn't) matter how large the population is, healthcare scales up or down, like all other services.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: LightSpeedDriver


I think it is very important to point out that countries with healthcare like Netherlands, Canada and Germany have a significantly smaller population than the United States.

Germany: 81.41 million
Netherlands: 16.94 million
Canada: 35.85 million
Sweden: 9.80 million
Cuba: 11.39 million
Venezuela: 31.11 million

Adding all of these countries together doesn't even come close to our population, though. Barely half, if my math skills haven't failed me.

USA: 323.95 million

Stop allowing logic and facts to get in the way of an emotional argument for free sh*t.

originally posted by: pavil
a reply to: FyreByrd

Some of the hardest hit will be student loan recipients: Nearly 12 million will be affected by repeal of the student loan interest deduction. Graduate students will be hit even harder, since the House tax bill proposes taxing tuition paid by their universities, which will raise taxes by nearly $10,000 on some students.

If your taxes are affected by $10,000 by the student loan interest deduction, you are not middle class. Doctors just out of internship have those kind of Interest deductions not normal college people. It's more a reflection on the government/collegiate complex cost of education than it is of taxes.

You also can't even write off student loan interest when you make more than $80k as an individual or $160k as a couple.

It's not a tax problem, its a spending problem. Hands down no debate.

We can complain until the cows come home, but its obvious that TPTB don't care about the average citizen. Nothing will change until a change is forced. People are too lazy or too preoccupied to educate themselves on taxes and government waste. Most people just accept taxes because its "just part of life." That mentality is what has caused such a huge gap in wealth distribution because people are fine with the way things are, even if they do complain about it.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: pavil
a reply to: FyreByrd

Some of the hardest hit will be student loan recipients: Nearly 12 million will be affected by repeal of the student loan interest deduction. Graduate students will be hit even harder, since the House tax bill proposes taxing tuition paid by their universities, which will raise taxes by nearly $10,000 on some students.

If your taxes are affected by $10,000 by the student loan interest deduction, you are not middle class. Doctors just out of internship have those kind of Interest deductions not normal college people. It's more a reflection on the government/collegiate complex cost of education than it is of taxes.

You also can't even write off student loan interest when you make more than $80k as an individual or $160k as a couple.

Given the income limits, the maximum the federal student loan interest deduction can save you is $625 annually. This assumes that you make fall into the 25% federal income tax bracket and have a modified adjusted gross income of $65,000 or less.

the maximum the student interest deduction can save you on taxes is $625

The lack of personal exemptions on large families is a concern. Large families will actually probably pay more in taxes or more precisely, get a smaller refund. Increasing the standard deduction isn't really a great solution to reducing taxes IMO. There should be tax savings for all people and that is not what appears will happen.

originally posted by: eXia7
It's not a tax problem, its a spending problem. Hands down no debate.

We can complain until the cows come home, but its obvious that TPTB don't care about the average citizen. Nothing will change until a change is forced. People are too lazy or too preoccupied to educate themselves on taxes and government waste. Most people just accept taxes because its "just part of life." That mentality is what has caused such a huge gap in wealth distribution because people are fine with the way things are, even if they do complain about it.

The big problem is no one wants to lose their sacred cows. So everyone will complain about spending, tax favors, etc. However, no one wants to get rid of their own personal benefits which is why nothing ever gets done. This is why I favor just pissing everyone off and getting rid of every single deduction and tax carve out while moving to a flat tax across the board.

a reply to: Lab4Us

That's what they want you to think. The next 10 or so countries behind the U.S. in military spending are our allies.

a reply to: Edumakated

Free sh*t? You mean the free sh*t I'm paying for with my taxes? Yeah, keep saying that, it doesn't make it true though.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Edumakated

Free sh*t? You mean the free sh*t I'm paying for with my taxes? Yeah, keep saying that, it doesn't make it true though.

Time to incorporate, so you can claim a business deduction for everything. That's what I did years ago. The system works if you know
how to play the game.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: FyreByrd

I've seen nothing much in the way of good news in this "Republican" tax business.

That said.......an analysis by "American Progress" isn't dispositive of anything for two reasons.

1) No one anywhere knows what if anything this Congress will ever agree to pass in the way of a tax package. The safe bet is on the proposition that nothing will ever be issued forth.

An excellent point.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: FyreByrd

FyreByrd, I agree that the tax proposal isn't perfect. It is a good step in the right direction, though. Clearly there are finer details that need to be worked out, including debt relief for student loans and more tax reduction for middle and low class families.

For instance, if a household income (definition to include single people living alone) is below X amount of dollars/year, they could be exempt from income tax entirely. While those in a middle bracket could be heavily discounted, say 75%.

At least my 2c

No!

It's a step in exactly the wrong direction. It's a blatant slap in the face of working people everywhere.

As the Republican (when the republican's were the progresses) Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr said:

Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.


Reportedly first said by Holmes in a speech in 1904, alternately phrased as "Taxes are what we pay for civilized society, including the chance to insure", Compania General De Tabacos De Filipinas v. Collector of Internal Revenue, 275 U.S. 87, 100, dissenting; opinion (21 November 1927). The first variation is quoted by the IRS above the entrance to their headquarters at 1111 Constitution Avenue.

Our society has be devolving society for 40 years and that due, near entirely due to tax cuts for the rich.

Honestly, as a working stiff, have your taxes ever really gone down?

It's a lie.

a reply to: FyreByrd

if the plan involves deductions then its a sham.

deductions = screwing the majority of the middle class.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: FyreByrd

You know the Center for American Progress is founded by John Podesta? I believe these guys as much as the CBO on Obamacare.

Acknowledged:

Center for American Progress

The Center for American Progress was begun in 2003 with funding from philanthropists Herbert M. Sandler and Marion O. Sandler[1] It is a Washington, DC-based liberal think tank created and led by President and Chief Executive Officer John D. Podesta, the head of Barack Obama's presidential transition team after the 2008 election and former Chief of Staff for President Bill Clinton.

www.sourcewatch.org...

That alone does not make the analysis suspect any more then one from the Heritage Foundation (which you can find here - www.heritage.org...)

Read both - and decide for yourself. Which 'slant' is more likely to be aimed to working familes and which more likely to be addressed to 'sucking up' to moneyed interests.

originally posted by: LightSpeedDriver
a reply to: JBurns

I understand the difference in numbers but that's why it is called (depending on location) national healthcare, global healthcare or universal healthcare. It doesn't (or shouldn't) matter how large the population is, healthcare scales up or down, like all other services.

In fact efficiency may dictate more cost per person savings with a larger base - economy of scale and all that rot.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: dfnj2015

People are against socialized (universal) healthcare but are all for socialized military eating up most of our taxes. No one has a choice whether their taxes go toward the military, I don't want my taxes going toward military because it does me no good but I'm forced to pay for it anyways. It's stupid, at least if I'm forced to pay for something then I'd like it to be something that benefits me and my neighbors, like healthcare, not something used to kill foreigners overseas.

Lmfao, keep your jokes to yourself clown.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Edumakated

Free sh*t? You mean the free sh*t I'm paying for with my taxes? Yeah, keep saying that, it doesn't make it true though.

Time to incorporate, so you can claim a business deduction for everything. That's what I did years ago. The system works if you know
how to play the game.

In his name we pray....RAMEN.

Yep. deduct, deduct...the tax system was written by and for businesses.

Get a business license. Sell painted rocks or whatev.

originally posted by: pavil
The lack of personal exemptions on large families is a concern. Large families will actually probably pay more in taxes or more precisely, get a smaller refund. Increasing the standard deduction isn't really a great solution to reducing taxes IMO. There should be tax savings for all people and that is not what appears will happen.

I didn't know about that one. Thank you.

Personally I think it's a good idea to end deductions for more then two children as an incentive to limit population growth - the primary cause of environmental degradation.

Another statistic - family size is inversely proportional to family wealth.

In general - only wealthy families would ever make enough to benefit.