Christain misinterpretation of "I am The Way" causes uneccesary division and bigotry.

originally posted by: TheInfiniteFantastic
a reply to: Deetermined

To me, the scriptures are pretty clear, but if you want to follow the other religions, use their texts if you want to stress your point.

vaniquotes.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink">ht tps://vaniquotes.org/wiki/There_is_a_story_about_a_hunter_who_was_converted_into_a_great_devotee_under_the_instruction_of_Narada_Muni
vaniquotes.org...

vaniquotes.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink">ht tps://vaniquotes.org/wiki/There_is_a_story_about_a_hunter_who_was_converted_into_a_great_devotee_under_the_instruction_of_Narada_MuniSB Canto 3

There is one instance where a hunter was taking pleasure in killing animals, but after becoming a devotee he was not prepared to kill even an ant. Such is the quality of a devotee.

Srimad Bhagavatam SB 3.32.23, Purport below: Explanation from Spiritual Master Prabhupada Bhaktivedanta.
You can read the full story at: vaniquotes.org...

Engagement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and application of devotional service unto Kṛṣṇa make it possible to advance in knowledge and detachment, as well as in self-realization."

It is said by less intelligent men that bhakti-yoga, or devotional service, is meant for persons who are not advanced in transcendental knowledge and renunciation. But the fact is that if one engages in the devotional service of the Lord in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he does not have to attempt separately to practice detachment or to wait for an awakening of transcendental knowledge. It is said that one who engages unflinchingly in the devotional service of the Lord actually has all the good qualities of the demigods develop in him automatically. One cannot discover how such good qualities develop in the body of a devotee, but actually it happens. There is one instance where a hunter was taking pleasure in killing animals, but after becoming a devotee he was not prepared to kill even an ant. Such is the quality of a devotee.

So, in this story of the hunter who changed his ways:

- The killed animals were un-killed?

- The pleasure taken in their death was un-felt?

- The ripples of consequence that spread through the universe were called back through time?

- The judgement of the nature of the wrong was cancelled?

No.

Life, actions and motivations have consequence. That is an unavoidable truth, obvious to all, regardless of beliefs.

Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not 'put right' past wrongs.

Which reveals 'Kṛṣṇa consciousness', at its core, to actually be a comfy bed of ignorance - in unconsciousness!

It is just a mind game in "detachment" (your word), a trying to hide from conscience.

A pretty lie.

So what is the point of becoming a devotee to something hopeless?

So what is the point of becoming a devotee to something hopeless?

a reply to: chr0naut

Christ Heart and Krishna Heart are non different. You are fooled by Gods powerful illusory energy, Maya. Imagining differences when there are none. You are not ready to change your heart, your ways or your thinking. Your mind has become your own stumbling block. As your reluctance to even question the purity of your own heart and your sinful nature is testimony to this.
Furthermore you are oblivious to the obvious degradation of your very own scriptures, which shows us who are aware that your are a goat. There is no need for me to converse any more as none of my words can penetrate your heart. For your heart, your ears and your eyes have been bound.

Your path is set friend. God bless you.

originally posted by: TheInfiniteFantastic

So what is the point of becoming a devotee to something hopeless?

a reply to: chr0naut

Christ Heart and Krishna Heart are non different. You are fooled by Gods powerful illusory energy, Maya. Imagining differences when there are none. You are not ready to change your heart, your ways or your thinking. Your mind has become your own stumbling block. As your reluctance to even question the purity of your own heart and your sinful nature is testimony to this.
Furthermore you are oblivious to the obvious degradation of your very own scriptures, which shows us who are aware that your are a goat. There is no need for me to converse any more as none of my words can penetrate your heart. For your heart, your ears and your eyes have been bound.

Your path is set friend. God bless you.

Yes, I am a Christian.

My mind, my heart and my spirit are in agreement with the words of Jesus Christ as recorded in the Bible.

I don't believe what you believe.

Yes, I am a Christian.

a reply to: chr0naut

When you see past the mirage of these bodily labels, which are but part of this grand illusion, which you believe to be reality. By a cleansing ones heart and an anointing of ones eyes. You will come to realize that these pre designated names, such as saying, I am a Christian, I am Muslim, I am Jew, I am Hindu, etc. These are merely the names of the exterior clothing, we call the body, which veils the Truth of our real nature.

When you see through this mirage of external coverings you will come to realize that we are all connected and come from the same source.

originally posted by: TheInfiniteFantastic

When you see past the mirage of these bodily labels, which are but part of this grand illusion, which you believe to be reality. By a cleansing ones heart and an anointing of ones eyes. You will come to realize that these pre designated names, such as saying, I am a Christian, I am Muslim, I am Jew, I am Hindu, etc. These are merely the names of the exterior clothing, we call the body, which veils the Truth of our real nature.

When you see through this mirage of external coverings you will come to realize that we are all connected and come from the same source.

While we all come from the same source, the source has given all of us free will to choose whether or not to accept God in return. Only God can cleanse one's heart and anoint someone with the Holy Spirit in order to see what's true and real. All we have to do is be willing to accept it.

originally posted by: TheInfiniteFantastic

Christ Heart and Krishna Heart are non different. You are fooled by Gods powerful illusory energy, Maya. Imagining differences when there are none. You are not ready to change your heart, your ways or your thinking. Your mind has become your own stumbling block. As your reluctance to even question the purity of your own heart and your sinful nature is testimony to this.

Furthermore you are oblivious to the obvious degradation of your very own scriptures, which shows us who are aware that your are a goat. There is no need for me to converse any more as none of my words can penetrate your heart. For your heart, your ears and your eyes have been bound.

Your path is set friend. God bless you.

You do realize that we can just as easily say the same about you, right?

Your path is set friend. God bless you.

Your path is set friend. God bless you.

a reply to: Deetermined

As you wish. So be it.

originally posted by: TheInfiniteFantastic
When a fly comes into my house I catch him in a cup, speaking loving words to him as I set him free.

Lady of the flies instead of Lord of the flies. I don't think they'll understand what you're saying though. But that's funny, that would be worth seeing one day. How do you feel about combatting the spread of the Zika virus (or Malaria) by killing mosquitos in densely populated areas?

Back to the topic:

‘I Am the Way, the Truth, and the Life’ (John 14) | Life of Jesus, chapter 119

That chapter explains quite well what Jesus was talking about and since one needs to see the context that was said in to fully understand what he was talking about I'll just quote the majority of that text. I've already failed to avoid long copy-pastes in this thread anyway and it would otherwise just be me saying the same things anyway cause I wouldn't be able to keep it much shorter than below either (I can skip a bit about the holy spirit perhaps).

Still in the upper room with the apostles after the memorial meal, Jesus encourages them: “Do not let your hearts be troubled. Exercise faith in God; exercise faith also in me.”​—John 13:36; 14:1.

Jesus gives the faithful apostles reason not to be troubled over his departure: “In the house of my Father are many dwelling places. . . . If I go my way and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be.” The apostles, however, do not grasp that he is speaking about going to heaven. Thomas asks: “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?”​—John 14:2-5.

“I am the way and the truth and the life,” Jesus answers. Only by accepting him and his teachings and imitating his life course can one enter the heavenly house of his Father. Jesus says: “No one comes to the Father except through me.”​—John 14:6.

Philip, listening intently, requests: “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Philip seems to want some manifestation of God, like the visions that Moses, Elijah, and Isaiah received. However, the apostles have something better than such visions. Jesus highlights that, replying: “Even after I have been with you men for such a long time, Philip, have you not come to know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father also.” Jesus perfectly reflects the Father’s personality; hence, living with and observing Jesus is like seeing the Father. Of course, the Father is superior to the Son, for Jesus points out: “The things I say to you I do not speak of my own originality.” (John 14:8-10) The apostles can see that Jesus is giving all credit for his teachings to his Father.

...

Now Jesus states a simple truth: “Whoever has my commandments and observes them is the one who loves me. In turn, whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will clearly show myself to him.” At this the apostle Judas, who is also called Thaddaeus, asks: “Lord, what has happened that you intend to show yourself clearly to us and not to the world?” Jesus replies: “If anyone loves me, he will observe my word, and my Father will love him . . . Whoever does not love me does not observe my words.” (John 14:21-24) Unlike his followers, the world does not recognize Jesus as the way, the truth, and the life.

Jesus is going away, so how will his disciples be able to recall all that he taught them? Jesus explains: “The helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.” The apostles have seen how powerfully the holy spirit can work, so this assurance is comforting. Jesus adds: “I leave you peace; I give you my peace. . . . Do not let your hearts be troubled nor let them shrink out of fear.” (John 14:26, 27) The disciples have reason, then, not to be troubled​—they will have direction and protection from Jesus’ Father.

Evidence of God’s protection will soon be seen. Jesus says: “The ruler of the world is coming, and he has no hold on me.” (John 14:30) The Devil was able to enter into Judas and get a hold on him. But there is no sinful weakness in Jesus that Satan can play on to turn him against God. Nor will the Devil be able to restrain Jesus in death. Why not? Jesus states: “I am doing just as the Father has commanded me to do.” He is certain that his Father will resurrect him.​—John 14:31.

After all, dead people can't resurrect themselves, they are "conscious of nothing at all" (Eccl.9:5). Luckily, God cannot die. So God was in the position to resurrect Jesus when Jesus was dead and "conscious of nothing at all". The King James Version of the bible says something 'odd' about Jesus concerning that period of time when he was dead, see below:

What the h*ll is HELL anyway? Are you going there?

Lady of the flies instead of Lord of the flies. I don't think they'll understand what you're saying though. But that's funny, that would be worth seeing one day. How do you feel about combatting the spread of the Zika virus (or Malaria) by killing mosquitos in densely populated areas?

a reply to: whereislogic

Here is the beauty of having full access to the knowledge of all the religious departments and not juts one.

Below is a partial exert taken from the Buddhist Falundafa.org website.

As we human beings live, we should maintain the right of living. Therefore, the living environment should also meet the needs of a human life. We cannot hurt or kill intentionally, but we must not confine ourselves to such trifles. For instance, vegetables and grain have life. Yet we cannot stop eating and drinking only for this reason. Otherwise, how can we practice We should be above-board and broad-minded. For example, while you walk, some ants or insects may happen to run under your feet, and be killed. They may deserve death since you did not do so intentionally. In the world of biology and microbiology there also is the issue of the ecological balance. Too many insects would become rampant as well. Thus, we should practice in a broad-minded way. When flies and mosquitoes are in the house, we may drive them out, and install a screen window to keep them out. But, sometimes we cannot drive them out, so it is no problem to kill them. They bite and harm people in their homes, so they should be driven out as they are not allowed to bite people. If you can not drive them out, you should not ignore them when they are biting people. Although as practitioners you are not affected and are immune to them, other family members who are ordinary non-practitioners may catch contagious illnesses. We should not allow a mosquito to bite a child's face.

Let me give you an example. There is a story about Sakyamuni in his early years. One day Sakyamuni was going to take a bath in a forest, and asked a disciple to clean the bathtub. His disciple went to the bathtub and found it full of worms crawling everywhere. To wipe it out would kill these worms. The disciple returned and told Sakyamuni that the bathtub was full of worms. Sakyamuni did not look at him and replied: "You go and clean the bathtub." The disciple went back to the bathtub and did not know how to clean it because he could not do it without killing the worms. He came back again to Sakyamuni and said: "Master, the bathtub is full of worms. If I clean it, the worms will be killed." Sakyamuni looked at him, and said: "What I asked you to do is to clean the bathtub." The disciple suddenly understood him and went back to clean up the bathtub. This story relates a principle. We should not skip taking a bath because there are worms; nor should we find another place to live because there are mosquitoes; nor should we tie up our throats and stop eating and drinking because grain and vegetables are alive. We should not do so. We should balance the relationship between the two, and be open and above-board with cultivation as long as we do not intentionally harm lives. At the same time, human beings should have living space and existing conditions so as to maintain their lives and their normal way of life.

falundafa.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink">falundafa.org...

Lord Tunderin Jezus!!
What a bunch of malarky!
Can't sense much truth resonating in that, at all.

That whole excerpt just comes-across as convoluted, unenlightened self-interest, and self-justification.
Tis the ego's job to justify any action, so as to: "...maintain...their normal way of life".

Just the idea that man has any right in deciding what is too many insects, is absurd.

originally posted by: TheInfiniteFantastic

Lady of the flies instead of Lord of the flies. I don't think they'll understand what you're saying though. But that's funny, that would be worth seeing one day. How do you feel about combatting the spread of the Zika virus (or Malaria) by killing mosquitos in densely populated areas?

a reply to: whereislogic

Here is the beauty of having full access to the knowledge of all the religious departments and not juts one.

Below is a partial exert taken from the Buddhist Falundafa.org website.

As we human beings live, we should maintain the right of living. Therefore, the living environment should also meet the needs of a human life. We cannot hurt or kill intentionally, but we must not confine ourselves to such trifles. For instance, vegetables and grain have life. Yet we cannot stop eating and drinking only for this reason. Otherwise, how can we practice We should be above-board and broad-minded. For example, while you walk, some ants or insects may happen to run under your feet, and be killed. They may deserve death since you did not do so intentionally. In the world of biology and microbiology there also is the issue of the ecological balance. Too many insects would become rampant as well. Thus, we should practice in a broad-minded way. When flies and mosquitoes are in the house, we may drive them out, and install a screen window to keep them out. But, sometimes we cannot drive them out, so it is no problem to kill them. They bite and harm people in their homes, so they should be driven out as they are not allowed to bite people. If you can not drive them out, you should not ignore them when they are biting people. Although as practitioners you are not affected and are immune to them, other family members who are ordinary non-practitioners may catch contagious illnesses. We should not allow a mosquito to bite a child's face.

Let me give you an example. There is a story about Sakyamuni in his early years. One day Sakyamuni was going to take a bath in a forest, and asked a disciple to clean the bathtub. His disciple went to the bathtub and found it full of worms crawling everywhere. To wipe it out would kill these worms. The disciple returned and told Sakyamuni that the bathtub was full of worms. Sakyamuni did not look at him and replied: "You go and clean the bathtub." The disciple went back to the bathtub and did not know how to clean it because he could not do it without killing the worms. He came back again to Sakyamuni and said: "Master, the bathtub is full of worms. If I clean it, the worms will be killed." Sakyamuni looked at him, and said: "What I asked you to do is to clean the bathtub." The disciple suddenly understood him and went back to clean up the bathtub. This story relates a principle. We should not skip taking a bath because there are worms; nor should we find another place to live because there are mosquitoes; nor should we tie up our throats and stop eating and drinking because grain and vegetables are alive. We should not do so. We should balance the relationship between the two, and be open and above-board with cultivation as long as we do not intentionally harm lives. At the same time, human beings should have living space and existing conditions so as to maintain their lives and their normal way of life.

falundafa.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink">falundafa.org...

Can't sense much truth resonating in that, at all.

a reply to: Nothin

Probably should have finished college then.

originally posted by: TheInfiniteFantastic

Can't sense much truth resonating in that, at all.

a reply to: Nothin

Probably should have finished college then.

Oh? Do they teach truth in any of those institutes of indoctrination?

An observation on the shoveling, and distribution of BS: OP didn't like my comment, and so did not address it, but just went straight to gratuitous insults.

originally posted by: TheInfiniteFantastic
Here is the beauty of having full access to the knowledge of all the religious departments and not juts one.

With the internet these days, access is easy. Since there are so many different views about spiritual matters in the world though, one might want to use the methodology described in the article in my signature to sift through them all to test their accuracy/truthfullness. Or whether those who favor these philosophies/ideas about spirituality show any of the signs described at 2 Timothy 4:3,4 (of either of the 2 main types described, the teachers and their fans or listeners, those who like what they're hearing from these teachers; both types are also described at Ephesians 4:14 in the article further below):

3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.

1st *: Or “healthful; beneficial.”
2nd *: Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”

How Precious Is the Truth to You?

“You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”—JOHN 8:32.

1. How did Pilate’s use of the word “truth” apparently differ from Jesus’ use of it?

“WHAT is truth?” When Pilate asked this question, his interest, such as it was, appeared to refer to truth in general. Jesus, on the other hand, had just said: “For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth.” (John 18:37, 38) Unlike Pilate, Jesus used the definite article and said “the truth.” He was referring to divine truth.

The World’s Attitude to the Truth

2. What statement of Jesus shows the value of truth?

2 Paul said: “Faith is not a possession of all people.” (2 Thessalonians 3:2) The same can be said of the truth. Even when confronted with truth based on the Bible, many people deliberately ignore it. Yet, how precious it is! Jesus said: “You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”—John 8:32.

3. What warning regarding deceptive teachings should we heed?

3 The apostle Paul said that the truth was not to be found in human philosophies and traditions. (Colossians 2:8) Indeed, such teachings are deceptive. Paul warned Ephesian Christians that if they put faith in them, they would be like spiritual babes “tossed about as by waves . . . by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in contriving error.” (Ephesians 4:14) Today, “trickery of men” is promoted by the propaganda of those who oppose divine truth. “Propaganda” is defined by The New Encyclopædia Britannica as “the systematic effort to manipulate other people’s beliefs, attitudes, or actions.” Such propaganda cunningly twists truth into falsehood and promotes lies as truth. To find the truth in the face of such insidious pressures, we must diligently consult the Scriptures.

Christians and the World

4. To whom is the truth made available, and what is the obligation of those who receive it?

4 Referring to those who had become his disciples, Jesus Christ prayed to Jehovah: “Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth.” (John 17:17) Such ones would be sanctified, or set apart, for the purpose of serving Jehovah and making known his name and Kingdom. (Matthew 6:9, 10; 24:14) Although not the possession of all people, Jehovah’s truth is available as a free gift to all who seek it, whatever their nationality, race, or cultural background. The apostle Peter said: “I perceive that God is not partial, but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him.”—Acts 10:34, 35.
...

“What Is Truth?”

THAT question was cynically posed to Jesus by the Roman Governor Pontius Pilate. He was not interested in an answer, and Jesus did not give him one. Perhaps Pilate viewed truth as too elusive to grasp.—John 18:38.

This disdainful attitude toward truth is shared by many today, including religious leaders, educators, and politicians. They hold that truth—especially moral and spiritual truth—is not absolute but relative and ever changing. This, of course, implies that people can determine for themselves what is right and what is wrong. (Isaiah 5:20, 21) It also allows people to reject as out-of-date the values and moral standards held by past generations.

The statement that prompted Pilate’s question is worth noting. Jesus had said: “For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth.” (John 18:37) Truth to Jesus was no vague, incomprehensible concept. He promised his disciples: “You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”—John 8:32.

Where can such truth be found? On one occasion, Jesus said in prayer to God: “Your word is truth.” (John 17:17) The Bible, written under divine inspiration, reveals truth that provides both reliable guidance and a sure hope for the future—everlasting life.—2 Timothy 3:15-17.

Pilate indifferently rejected the opportunity to learn such truth. What about you? ...

Source: “What Is Truth?”

The BIBLE - Accurate History,Reliable Prophecy (documentary)

originally posted by: TheInfiniteFantastic

Yes, I am a Christian.

a reply to: chr0naut

When you see past the mirage of these bodily labels, which are but part of this grand illusion, which you believe to be reality. By a cleansing ones heart and an anointing of ones eyes. You will come to realize that these pre designated names, such as saying, I am a Christian, I am Muslim, I am Jew, I am Hindu, etc. These are merely the names of the exterior clothing, we call the body, which veils the Truth of our real nature.

When you see through this mirage of external coverings you will come to realize that we are all connected and come from the same source.

I am a Christian not because of a label. I have specific beliefs that are different from those who have different beliefs such as Hare Krishna devotees. If you cannot see the fairly clear differences, then how could it be that I have misunderstood my own faith?

Eastern faiths may hold that "all is one" but the Abrahamic traditions have always sought to differentiate clearly. One might suggest that an inability to differentiate is an indicator that you do not actually understand the reasons for the specifics of Abrahamic faiths.

Let me clarify something. From your stand point, it may seem valid to say, "it is not what you believe, but the fact that you believe in something that is important", however that is neither a valid or rational conclusion. If your belief were aberrant or self-harming, for instance, then the fact that you held such beliefs is a real problem.

Similarly, if God has undertaken to say 'this is what you must do, there is no alternate way' and you choose to disregard that in favor of some self-generated blancmange of fuzzy belief and motivation, then you are being actively disobedient against God.

Jesus said that he was the only way to salvation and there was no other. Knowing that, if I attempted to try and 'second guess' God and invent my own path to salvation, or to follow any path alternate to Jesus, then I would be being disobedient to the clearly stated word of God.

You have spoken several times that it is 'the heart' that determines our salvation but regardless if you take the pragmatist view that the heart is a pump, or the poetic view that the heart is the center of passion and emotion, every human being already has a passionate pumping heart and the states of all human hearts (whether passionate or pump) are very similar.

How would a personally held attitude, a strong emotion or other self-produced philosophy motivate God to treat us with mercy if we have broken the letter of the law? Would an "all is one" philosophy be an adequate response in that case?

We can do the right thing and even be passionate about it but God holds a higher than human standard. There is nothing we can humanly do to redress absolute laws by which we are found guilty. So we MUST accept His forgiveness as the only salvation. Nothing else is effective.

I agree with everything said in the above post (chr0naut), but would like to briefly address what has been said in the thread so far about saves by grace lest any man boast. This is true, but it is also true that We should obey the commandments of God because we love Him and want to obey. In Revelation, the most esteemed saints are those that keep the commandments of God and they testimony (faith) of Jesus.

At creation, God put the Sabbath front and center in the Ten Commandments. The importance of this commandment can’t be diminished because God hallowed it. It is the only commandment where He said, “remember, to keep holy.” The Sabbath is key to Christianity, because it is about closeness with God; worship, rest and developing a righteous character.

The Bible depicts types and anti-types and repeating themes in history’s timeline that can be discerned. It is no mistake that the Sabbath is prominent in the beginning and will be prominent in the end.

Repeatedly, the commandments are referenced as something you do because you love Jesus and God. Do you want to be called the least in heaven? The Bible says if you teach the commandments incorrectly or not to keep them at all, you will be called the least in heaven.

If we are saved by grace and not bound to obey them sin is free to abound; murder, adultery, lies, covetousness and idolatry.

To think Commandments aren’t meant to be obeyed anymore is to deny God obedience and you’re missing the point—true love of your creator. “If you love me, keep my commandments.”

Also, the Bible is clear about other religions, calling them abominations and not of God.

The Bible isn’t a choose-your-own-adventure book.