Nurse forcibly arrested for not allowing cop to draw blood of unconscious patient(Video)

a reply to: roadgravel


You are correct, you can put cuffs on someone while you are doing your investigating but what you say to them is not you are under arrest, you tell them you are not under arrest, you are being detained until we can figure this out and then tell them you are placing handcuffs on them for your safety and theirs if you feel it is needed. But whether or not cuffs are needed is case by case , and clearly there was no need for cuffs here. One of your jobs as a police officer is to DE-ESCALATE a situation and in this instance everyone was calm and he is the one that Escalated the situation

It's obvious he was just feeding his ego with the arrest. He didn't try talking to someone else at the hospital to make sure she was the only person making that call on the draw.

a reply to: norhoc

I know what they said about being able to get a warrant.

That doesn't really effect what you said probable cause is used for. And what you didn't say it's used for.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
All right I have other things I need to do so feel free to attack me. I will try and log back in later to defend myself.

I thought this was a discussion. A discussion is an exchange of ideas and thoughts that should allow for different viewpoints. Yours may be in the minority but by no means does this indicate you are being "attacked." Why do you perceive yourself as under attack just because someone challenges your perceptions or arguments? I think I'm beginning to see why we have so many seeming impasses between law enforcement and "civilians" if this is a prevailing mindset that has seeped into our police.

You've made some logical points and introduced valid questions about the circumstances of this incident. But like that of the officers in question, it's your attitude that escalates the discussion above peaceful public discourse. There is no need for any attitude here. We will neither win prizes or lose assets as a result of our respective positions in this discussion. We should keep this friendlier than we have been. In that regard, I do sincerely thank you for your public service.

a reply to: norhoc

Didn't call you a liar. I questioned your knowledge.

And I don't particularly care about your proof, because asking members for proof of identity is against T&C. And, beyond that, I don't care.

a reply to: Shamrock6


You questioned whether or not I was LE when I say I was , which means you think I am lying. Don't play with verbiage

originally posted by: norhoc
a reply to: roadgravel

One of your jobs as a police officer is to DE-ESCALATE a situation and in this instance everyone was calm and he is the one that Escalated the situation

He couldn't "de-escalate" the situation, everything was calm and peaceful already. His only option left was to "escalate" it, so that he could justify the arrest, to get things moving his way.

To take control, means to make a change to the circumstances.

If a cop arrives at a scene, and finds trouble, then he tries to de-escalate. But, if he arrives on scene, and finds no trouble, he has to introduce the trouble, to move things forward.

All cops do this.

That's how they make arrests of peaceful folks.

a reply to: AMPTAH


His only option left was to escalate it? That is scary you think that way

And "he has to introduce trouble" Are you serious? I can tell you were never LEO

a reply to: Zaphod58

This officer went over the line, I agree completely with that.

Gratefully most people feel this way, including police officers.

I ran into a couple officers I work with earlier today, they were meeting with a couple of recently retired officers. All they could do is shake their heads, and say how messed up the whole incident was.

They all agreed that the detective was wrong and that it was poorly managed.

Even though it is hard to tell from the body cam video, but for the most part, police officers and medical staff are on the same team.

This is not a perfect world and sometimes we don't know and sometimes we get it wrong, even if it is someone you love. But it never is a justifiable reason to assault someone, just because you are angry or embarrassed.

This is just a real bad time for this kind of behavior. The question in my mind, and perhaps in the mind of others, is if he becomes this unhinged over a blood draw that will not be used in a criminal case against the patient, what would he do under circumstances were there were only other officers as witnesses. A recent case in Minnesota comes to mind.

That's one of the scary things about this: his superior joined him in his power-tripping binge! His superior told him to arrest the nurse if she didn't let HIM DRAW THE BLOOD HIMSELF (again, why did they need to do that?!), and worse, when that ass superior got to the scene, he squatted down and bullied and BLAMED the nurse, telling her the situation could have been resolved a bunch of different ways, but SHE made it impossible because she told them no to the request for access to the unconscious patient so they could draw blood. Wtf?!

Classic bullying, blame-shifting tactics of a person who cannot evaluate their own behavior. And these two officers are people who are entrusted with powers over civilians, and given tazers and guns.

We should all be enraged and incredibly concerned.

a reply to: norhoc

Questioning your claim is not the same as outright calling you a liar.

For somebody who deals with, or dealt with, the law I would think you'd understand that specificity in words matters a great deal.

a reply to: Ddrneville

That meme is completely asinine. Equating all police with Nazis is unfair, uncalled for and morally and ethically wrong. There are far too many honorable police, like the officer, Sgt. Steve Perez, who died trying to get to his job in Houston to help with the Hurricane Harvey rescue efforts, for me to stand by quietly and support something like this. Posting something like this only feeds into unhealthy "Us vs Them" mentality that some officers hold that blind them from doing their jobs fairly.

a reply to: Shamrock6



See you are doing it again in a passive way, and yes having learned interview techniques I also learned to really listen to what people are saying. And you are doing these passive aggressive ways of calling me a liar without saying the words, so consider yourself on the list with xcath of people I will no longer warrant with a reply.

a reply to: norhoc

Neat.

I said either you don't know what probable cause actually is, or you do and you were intentionally dishonest with your phrasing in an effort to be able to be right. If the only things that springs to mind out of that is that I'm calling you a liar, I dunno what to tell ya.

Take care.

originally posted by: roadgravel

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: roadgravel

She was detained and not arrested.

So if a police officer states you under arrest then you really aren't under arrest?

In her case she was released without any charges by the very officer who placed her in handcuffs.

But at one point she was under arrest unless the words from the officer are meaningless.

Then a person struggles or walks off and then risks "resisting arrest".

It is actually resisting a lawful arrest, detention or stop.

a reply to: windword

Stop ignoring the parts that dont fit your narrative.

41-6a-522. Person incapable of refusal.
Any person who is dead, unconscious, or in any other condition rendering the person incapable of refusal to submit to any chemical test or tests is considered to not have withdrawn the consent provided for in Subsection 41-6a-520(1), and the test or tests may be administered whether the person has been arrested or not.

One a person is arrested, can an officer just drop the arrest or does it then involve others.

originally posted by: norhoc
a reply to: AMPTAH


His only option left was to escalate it? That is scary you think that way

You just saw this with your own eyes. Captured on video. Believe what you see. Things are exactly as they appear.

And "he has to introduce trouble" Are you serious? I can tell you were never LEO

The only problem here is people trying to label the cop a "bad cop", and "a bully", etc...

Cops do this routinely. I can assure you that the cop was not angry, nor upset, etc..I see many people "interpreting" the cop's actions as having something to do with his emotional state.

This is simply an effective strategy to move things along. To appear to be angry to the victim, co-coerces the victim to submit to the authority. In reality, the cop is not angry at all. He is perfectly calm inside his mind. This is too routine for him to be mentally bothered by it. It is we bystanders who imagine all the emotions circulating about in that environment.

Ask the cop, he'll tell you, he was just doing his job.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn

They all agreed that the detective was wrong and that it was poorly managed.

This position is only taken because it was all caught on camera.

These cameras are a good thing, they allow everyone to see what actually goes on in regular policing.

It's funny, how everyone can determine easily what's wrong "in hindsight", looking back on the events with "3rd party eyes."

If more of us could see ourselves from a remote point of view, and go over our own actions this way, we'd all change our own behaviors.

All those other police officers and detectives pointing out that Officer Payne was wrong, should have body cams and look at their own interactions and review themselves before pointing fingers and Payne and Tracy. These two cops are not doing anything that is not "routine."

a reply to: AMPTAH

These two cops are not doing anything that is not "routine."

It may be routine for him, and for some in his department, but his behavior is not routine behavior for most officers. At least not with the ones that I have worked with.

I will go you one better. I have butted heads with police officers before, and I work very closely with detectives, were we didn't see eye to eye. There have been some cross words exchanged, but nothing even remotely close to this level.

Not because of body cams, which can create their own set of problems sometimes, in my line of work, but because it is totally unnecessary. To be honest, it is greatly due to the fact that we will have to work together again at some point, and working in a position that is so sensitive, lengthy in process, and may even end up in court, makes for a miserable work environment if you let emotions rule your thoughts and your actions. The job is stressful enough, you don't go adding more problems to the situation. You say what you have to say, you work it out, and if you can't, you turn it over to someone that can.

You can have bad cops, you can have good cops on a bad day, but the behavior you describe is not routine for your average officer. If he is, it should be addressed and eliminated.

Added.
We have monthly case reviews so there are several sets of 3rd party eyes that will see and and evaluate the actions of all involved in a case. Especially if it is a case were there was discord or friction among the members of the team.