Unanswered Questions. The shooting of Matt Mika at the Republican Congressional baseball practice.

originally posted by: Ridhya
Is it even possible that the shooter was a distraction, and the police officers shot Mika?

I didn't mean to reply "they sure did," to this part of your comment, only the first part....although I do wonder.

a reply to: MotherMayEye
Hmm this is odd. The 2 Capitol Officers who were already there, Griner and Bailey, were not alone. There was a third officer not mentioned in most of the articles named Cabrera, and in one account, he apparently started shootig at the suspect from the dugout first, then heard the 2 Capitol Officers firing and asked if they were friendly...(?!) How would they not be aware of other officers?

Capitol Police Chief Matthew Verderosa said in a statement, “I want to commend Special Agents Crystal Griner, David Bailey, and Henry Cabrera for their heroic and appropriate response in protecting the Members and others today during their practice for the Congressional baseball game. I’m grateful that Special Agent Griner is in good condition in the hospital having been shot in the ankle."

And even more interesting, those 2 officers were not even supposed to be there, the only reason there was security on the field that day was because of Scalise!

The Capitol Police occasionally assigns an officer to attend baseball practices, on a case-by-case basis.

"There's usually a Capitol Police officer in a car in a parking lot several hundred yards away but no one on near the field like the Scalise detail was," said Matt Dinkel, the spokesman for Rep. Mike Doyle, the Democratic team's coach. "That was the situation today."

Seems convenient, what are the odds the one time an incident occurs the feds are there in advance?
And all the news here in Canada says "gunman who shot Rep Scalise", no mention of Mika, even though he was clearly the target!! And on top of that the gun control issue is being pushed again, some articles calling it an "SKS Assault Rifle", seriously, I own one in Canada, they are very outdated.

And I noticed Mika's business was in Arkansas, home of she-who-will-not-be-named....

Thinking further about Mika I would say it's impossible to shoot someone 4 - 5 times in the torso from any distance. After the 1st or 2nd hit anyone would go down if not from the impact then certainly out of common sense. I still maintain a theory of a shotgun using buckshot at close range or either a sniper at a good distance who could continue shooting Mika even after he went down.

If Scalise were one of the real targets why only shoot him once? Why not put a few more in him after he went down? (if killing was the object of the shooting).

Turns out Mika was a lobbyist for Tyson.

a reply to: MotherMayEye
Your thread here is the first that I was aware that Mike Mika was shot during that incident.
I didn't here anything about it in news reports.... but I certainly heard plenty about the woman in the security detail that was shot once in the ankle.

I find the shooting of Mika and the human trafficking angle an interesting theory that has legs. Mika worked for Congressman Tim Walberg, who introduced legislation on human trafficking last year. Walberg also visited Mika in the hospital and declined to go into detail on what they discussed.

Is it possible both Mika and Scalise were targets? Were there 2 shooters, one aiming for Scalise and the other targeting Mika?

Where was Walberg during the shooting?

Great work, MME!! As usual, you always introduce an alternate theory that gets me thinking in a sideways direction!

a reply to: Ridhya

I did not know about the third Capitol police officer. I wonder what he was doing during all the shooting?

I don't exactly understand what any of them were doing during the estimated 10 minutes of shooting. From the accounts I've read, it didn't take very long for them to bring down the gunman once they finally started shooting at him.

By the way, The Clintons have an old scandal involving Tyson Foods

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
Thinking further about Mika I would say it's impossible to shoot someone 4 - 5 times in the torso from any distance. After the 1st or 2nd hit anyone would go down if not from the impact then certainly out of common sense. I still maintain a theory of a shotgun using buckshot at close range or either a sniper at a good distance who could continue shooting Mika even after he went down.

If Scalise were one of the real targets why only shoot him once? Why not put a few more in him after he went down? (if killing was the object of the shooting).

I would like to know if Mika was hit with a rifle or a pistol. Allegedly the gunman had both but didn't switch to the pistol until the very end of the shooting.

And I also don't see how he was hit so many times in the chest and arm where he was situated. It really makes no sense.

As, I said in the OP, there are several witnesses that said they intentionally ran behind the first base dugout because it was the safest place. Others that didn't make it out of the field dove into the first base dugout.

How was Mika struck so many times while in the "safest" area from the gunfire?

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: MotherMayEye
Your thread here is the first that I was aware that Mike Mika was shot during that incident.
I didn't here anything about it in news reports.... but I certainly heard plenty about the woman in the security detail that was shot once in the ankle.

Hypothetically, if Mika was supposed to have died, I wonder if Scalise would have taken that sudden turn to critical condition and dominated the headlines for the next two days.

And would there be anyone willing to say they saw Mika get hit?

As it stands, Mika is alive to tell his story. His family seems to be keeping info about him very private. From what I've read, people in Congress aren't getting any info beyond what the public is getting. In reading what the witnesses say, they 'sound like' they don't want to go on record saying they saw what happened to him.

originally posted by: texasgirl
I find the shooting of Mika and the human trafficking angle an interesting theory that has legs. Mika worked for Congressman Tim Walberg, who introduced legislation on human trafficking last year. Walberg also visited Mika in the hospital and declined to go into detail on what they discussed.

Interesting! Do you have a link that talks about that visit? The last I had read was his family said no visitors or gifts.

ETA: Also, I feel like I read somewhere that Tim Walberg was not at that practice. If I did, it was probably one of the Michigan news sources I read.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

www.arkansasbusiness.com...

Walberg views Mika as a "nephew". They're pretty close


ETA: I made an error. The last time he spoke with Mika was the Monday before the shooting. It was this discussion that he declined to go into detail. My apologies. It's still interesting, though. What did they talk about?

a reply to: texasgirl

Thanks! I feel like I recall reading that now. I wonder if he actually saw Mika or just spoke with the family while at the hospital. The article doesn't really say:

Walberg told The Associated Press that he spoke with Mika's family late Wednesday when he visited George Washington University Hospital, where the 38-year-old remains in critical condition.

ETA: Ah, I see your edit now!

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Well, as usual, MME you bring us questions no one else thinks to ask which tells me you are one of the most perceptive members here.

As others and yourself have mentioned, Tyson has a questionable enough history in a variety of areas of shadiness that one of theirs being targeted is not outside the realm of the possible. When you add in where they are from and who they have ties with, that only escalates the probabilities in my mind.

I don't really have a lot to add at the moment as you've covered everything quite well and the bits I did add during our conversations prior to your posting this thread are already included.

Great thread!





ETA - I'm surprised you haven't received any flak for this thread yet, when you brought up the idea in the main thread you got pounced on right away and I absolutely expected some of that when you told me you were thinking about making this thread; maybe it's still brewing.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
"Louder than a gunshot"?
Very strange statement, don't you think?
Did he mean "louder than the other gunshots" from behind 3rd base?
This is my conspiratorial thought: Mika was targeted by a 2nd shooter who hit him at close range with buckshot.
This would explain both the loudness and the multiple wounds.
If he was involved in anything to do with the Clintons or an investigation of them it would not surprise me a bit.
Why didn't the shooter go after the person on 3rd base first since they were closest?
Even the shortstop was close than Scalise at 2nd base yet he was hit with the 2nd shot?
This is pretty strange and I hadn't really paid much attention to any details of the event.
Good thread, thought provoking as usual.

Eta: I had read the shooter's weapon was an SKS rifle - a piss-poor choice due to their lack of accuracy, especially if the rifle was not scoped. Considering where everyone else was hit compared to Mika I think they were shot by different shooters. If the FBI is handling this (while NOT calling it terrorism) then I am extremely suspicious of the whole thing.

I don't know how I missed responding to this comment.

I do think it's odd the first gunshot sounded louder and different than subsequent shots. I didn't know what to make of it.I don't know how buckshot works...I'll have to look it up.

I guess I was also thinking perhaps he could have been shot with a handgun that had a silencer.

***

And, again, how did Mike Conaway not see Mika get shot? He went directly from first base to the backside of the first base dugout upon hearing the second shot. That would have just taken a few seconds.

Keep in mind, too, that Mike Conaway is the Chairman of the House Agriculture Committee. Matt Mika is a lobbyist focused on the Agriculture Committees.

If there are any lobbying shenanigans that motivated Mika's shooting, then it stands to reason that Mike Conaway could be involved/implicated. And I don't know why Conaway acted like he wasn't sure if it was a staffer or lobbyist that was shot in the chest even days later when he gave an account to Politico Magazine. Even if he somehow did not know Matt Mika, surely he knew who had been shot in the chest, by then.

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Thanks, J&C!

a reply to: Asktheanimals

I had read the shooter's weapon was an SKS rifle - a piss-poor choice due to their lack of accuracy, especially if the rifle was not scoped. Considering where everyone else was hit compared to Mika I think they were shot by different shooters.

It depends on the rifle.
My nephew has a Tula SKS from around 1950 that is pretty accurate. At the distances that the shooter was firing from he could have pulled it off... if he was a decent marksman.
I do not disagree that there may have been another shooter, the way this story is going.

a reply to: butcherguy

It just seems the first base dugout would have been blocking the shooter from even seeing Matt Mika, to me.

If you read what other witnesses who managed to get off the field say, they indicate they thought the only safe place was behind the first base dugout...and that's where Mika was shot 4 to 5 times.

ETA: Here's the diagram of the field, again, for reference:


If Mike Conaway ran from first base, out the gate, and behind the first base dugout...he either saw Mika get shot or Mika was already shot by the time he got there (and that's what he seems to claim)...and getting to that spot would have only taken him seconds.

ETA2: Same with everyone else who made it out to that area, too...they all only claim to have seen Mika lying on the ground shot in the chest, but no one claims to have seen him actually shot.

originally posted by: Ridhya
a reply to: MotherMayEye
Hmm this is odd. The 2 Capitol Officers who were already there, Griner and Bailey, were not alone. There was a third officer not mentioned in most of the articles named Cabrera, and in one account, he apparently started shootig at the suspect from the dugout first, then heard the 2 Capitol Officers firing and asked if they were friendly...(?!) How would they not be aware of other officers?

Capitol Police Chief Matthew Verderosa said in a statement, “I want to commend Special Agents Crystal Griner, David Bailey, and Henry Cabrera for their heroic and appropriate response in protecting the Members and others today during their practice for the Congressional baseball game. I’m grateful that Special Agent Griner is in good condition in the hospital having been shot in the ankle."

And even more interesting, those 2 officers were not even supposed to be there, the only reason there was security on the field that day was because of Scalise!

The Capitol Police occasionally assigns an officer to attend baseball practices, on a case-by-case basis.

"There's usually a Capitol Police officer in a car in a parking lot several hundred yards away but no one on near the field like the Scalise detail was," said Matt Dinkel, the spokesman for Rep. Mike Doyle, the Democratic team's coach. "That was the situation today."

Seems convenient, what are the odds the one time an incident occurs the feds are there in advance?
And all the news here in Canada says "gunman who shot Rep Scalise", no mention of Mika, even though he was clearly the target!! And on top of that the gun control issue is being pushed again, some articles calling it an "SKS Assault Rifle", seriously, I own one in Canada, they are very outdated.

And I noticed Mika's business was in Arkansas, home of she-who-will-not-be-named....

From what I'm reading it was Congressman Jeff Flake who yelled out "are you friendly?!!" to Cabrera. Why would he ask that? Aren't Capital Hill Police wearing uniforms?

Cabrera was an Army vet. One article states that the other two officers, the injured ones, knew they couldn't take down the shooter and thus provided cover for the Republicans to find safety. Cabrera ultimately brought the shooter down.

Oh, boy....I really hate to say this but is it possible Cabrera was a second shooter? (Just speculating)

originally posted by: texasgirl

originally posted by: Ridhya
a reply to: MotherMayEye
Hmm this is odd. The 2 Capitol Officers who were already there, Griner and Bailey, were not alone. There was a third officer not mentioned in most of the articles named Cabrera, and in one account, he apparently started shootig at the suspect from the dugout first, then heard the 2 Capitol Officers firing and asked if they were friendly...(?!) How would they not be aware of other officers?

Capitol Police Chief Matthew Verderosa said in a statement, “I want to commend Special Agents Crystal Griner, David Bailey, and Henry Cabrera for their heroic and appropriate response in protecting the Members and others today during their practice for the Congressional baseball game. I’m grateful that Special Agent Griner is in good condition in the hospital having been shot in the ankle."

And even more interesting, those 2 officers were not even supposed to be there, the only reason there was security on the field that day was because of Scalise!

The Capitol Police occasionally assigns an officer to attend baseball practices, on a case-by-case basis.

"There's usually a Capitol Police officer in a car in a parking lot several hundred yards away but no one on near the field like the Scalise detail was," said Matt Dinkel, the spokesman for Rep. Mike Doyle, the Democratic team's coach. "That was the situation today."

Seems convenient, what are the odds the one time an incident occurs the feds are there in advance?
And all the news here in Canada says "gunman who shot Rep Scalise", no mention of Mika, even though he was clearly the target!! And on top of that the gun control issue is being pushed again, some articles calling it an "SKS Assault Rifle", seriously, I own one in Canada, they are very outdated.

And I noticed Mika's business was in Arkansas, home of she-who-will-not-be-named....

From what I'm reading it was Congressman Jeff Flake who yelled out "are you friendly?!!" to Cabrera. Why would he ask that? Aren't Capital Hill Police wearing uniforms?

Cabrera was an Army vet. One article states that the other two officers, the injured ones, knew they couldn't take down the shooter and thus provided cover for the Republicans to find safety. Cabrera ultimately brought the shooter down.

Oh, boy....I really hate to say this but is it possible Cabrera was a second shooter? (Just speculating)

www.cbsnews.com...

originally posted by: texasgirl

originally posted by: Ridhya
a reply to: MotherMayEye
Hmm this is odd. The 2 Capitol Officers who were already there, Griner and Bailey, were not alone. There was a third officer not mentioned in most of the articles named Cabrera, and in one account, he apparently started shootig at the suspect from the dugout first, then heard the 2 Capitol Officers firing and asked if they were friendly...(?!) How would they not be aware of other officers?

Capitol Police Chief Matthew Verderosa said in a statement, “I want to commend Special Agents Crystal Griner, David Bailey, and Henry Cabrera for their heroic and appropriate response in protecting the Members and others today during their practice for the Congressional baseball game. I’m grateful that Special Agent Griner is in good condition in the hospital having been shot in the ankle."

And even more interesting, those 2 officers were not even supposed to be there, the only reason there was security on the field that day was because of Scalise!

The Capitol Police occasionally assigns an officer to attend baseball practices, on a case-by-case basis.

"There's usually a Capitol Police officer in a car in a parking lot several hundred yards away but no one on near the field like the Scalise detail was," said Matt Dinkel, the spokesman for Rep. Mike Doyle, the Democratic team's coach. "That was the situation today."

Seems convenient, what are the odds the one time an incident occurs the feds are there in advance?
And all the news here in Canada says "gunman who shot Rep Scalise", no mention of Mika, even though he was clearly the target!! And on top of that the gun control issue is being pushed again, some articles calling it an "SKS Assault Rifle", seriously, I own one in Canada, they are very outdated.

And I noticed Mika's business was in Arkansas, home of she-who-will-not-be-named....

From what I'm reading it was Congressman Jeff Flake who yelled out "are you friendly?!!" to Cabrera. Why would he ask that? Aren't Capital Hill Police wearing uniforms?

Cabrera was an Army vet. One article states that the other two officers, the injured ones, knew they couldn't take down the shooter and thus provided cover for the Republicans to find safety. Cabrera ultimately brought the shooter down.

Oh, boy....I really hate to say this but is it possible Cabrera was a second shooter? (Just speculating)

Very interesting thoughts. Will you link to what you are reading?

Conaway says this and I want to compare Flake's account:

The only security on the field when the shooting broke out — Griner and Bailey, who are Scalise’s security detail — were the first to exchange gunfire with Hodgkinson, who Conaway said kept shooting toward the first base dugout where people were hiding.

“At some point in this exchange, a ricochet or a bullet that went through a tire hit special agent Griner in the ankle, so she’s down,” he said, also recalling seeing an injured person lying on the ground between the two officers.

Bailey continued to engage the shooter and was then joined by several Alexandria police, he said.

“Shots ring out and (the shooter) goes down,” he said, noting the gunman switched from shooting with a rifle to a pistol. “I don’t know exactly who shot him. He goes down. I went over to see him, they rolled him over to his stomach, put handcuffs on him, and I saw the rifle on the ground a ways away, his pistol on the ground.”

Once police had the shooter secured, Conaway said he made his way over to check on Mika, who had been shot in the chest and sustained the worst injury. Barth was shot in the calf.

ETA: I see your link now!

a reply to: MotherMayEye

It's the CBS news link in above post...