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Holy Grail Arthurian legend inspired in Shroud presence in Turkey & Britain?

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posted on May, 14 2017 @ 09:46 PM
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The Peace of God to all that belong to the Light
Dear readers

About 20 years ago an interesting hypothesis was mentioned first Time, at least in the modern era, about how the Holy Shroud of Turin came brought by Templar knights to the west from Constantinople around the year 1204 AD.

The author researcher Daniel C. Scavone from
University of Southern Indiana in 1996 formulated this so interesting possible explanation of the link existing in between the Medieval legends about a hypothetical trip of Joseph of Arimathea to Britain carrying the Holy Grail and the way the Shroud of Christ was stolen during the fourth crusade from a church in Constantinople by French crusades.

Please check

www.shroud.com...

The work of this Historian became almost forgotten due to the crisis of credibility that the Shroud suffer between 1988 and 2007, due to the conflict among the STURP tests of 1978 and the non authorized C14 test of 1982 carried out in Libermory laboratory in California working in recommendation of new protocols of preservation of the relic, which both supported the authenticity, with respect the 1988 C14 tests denying it.

Please check

triablogue.blogspot.com...

Recent revelations from Statistical Analysis of Variance tests carried out over the C14 data from 1988 by experts of the Padua, Bolognia and Emilia Universities under the direction of Dr Giulio Fanti in 2007 (Reni, Atkinson, Crosilla) )and of mechanical and (FTIR and Raman) spectroscopy tests (Basso, Malfi,Tinti, Baraldi)in 2014 has showed that the relic currently stored in the Cathedral of St John the Baptist in Turin, North Italy is likely to have the age of to be genuinely the Burial cloth of the Historic Jesus of Nazareth.

Please check

www.acheiropoietos.info...

www.newgeology.us...

References:

1) a paper in the journal Vibrational Spectroscopy, July 2013, "Non-destructive dating of ancient flax textiles by means of vibrational spectroscopy" by Giulio Fanti, Pietro Baraldi, Roberto Basso, and Anna Tinti, Volume 67, pages 61-70;

2) a paper titled "A new cyclic-loads machine for the measurement of micro-mechanical properties of single flax fibers coming from the Turin Shroud" by Giulio Fanti and Pierandrea Malfi for the XXI AIMETA (Italian Association of Theoretical and Applied Mechanics) congress in 2013, and

3) the 2013 book "Il Mistero della Sindone" (The Mystery of the Shroud), written by Giulio Fanti and Saverio Gaeta in Italian.

The fact that the relic has now been showed to be an authentic first century Hebrew Shroud in this decade has open again the possibility that was for many years destestimated, after the negative results of the C14 dating of 1988, that the human blood that is on it, which has been also confirmed as authentic since 1978, be the actually blood of Christ.

Please check

www.shroud.com...

The STURP 1978 findings together with a rigorous analysis of the Arthurian literature and the finding in 1941 by Archaelogists of a Templar catecombe chapel in Sommerset England on which on a wooden panel covering a wall is painted a bearded man face that resembles the Shroud one, are the elements that Daniel C Scavone have used to support his thesis about that the Legendary Grail was nothing else than the Holy Shroud that temporally was in the South of England, very close to the place archaelogy suggest was located the also legendary city of Camelot.

Please check

shroudstory.com...

Historians have established that Joseph of Arimathea probably never traveled to the west, but his legend could be a literary creation that was based on a real fact, the presence of the Shroud he used to wrap Jesus in English soil.

The thread is open to discuss this amazing research work that link literature, with popular folklore, Archaelogy and the most modern not destructive methods of dating of ancient textiles.

Thanks for your attention

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 5/14/2017 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 14 2017 @ 09:51 PM
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a reply to: The angel of light




This fact together with a rigorous analysis of the Arthurian literature and the finding by Archaelogists of a Templar chapel in England on which on a wall is painted a face that resembles the Shroud one, are the elements that Daniel C Scavone have used to support his thesis about that the Legendary Grial was nothing else than the Holy Shroud that temporally was in the South of England, very close to the place archaelogy suggest was located the also legendary city of Camelot.


Can you say which temple you are referring to here or provide a link please??



posted on May, 14 2017 @ 10:08 PM
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a reply to: Charlyboy

Hi Dear Charlyboy,

I have finished to list some really interesting links in my edition of the opening post that would allow to verify the original references that support this Amazing hypothesis.

If Professor Daniel Scavone is correct it might be solving two of the most enigmatic mysteries that have fascinated generations of entusiastics of the popular culture in the Western civilization showing the truth that has been behind what were considered just beautiful legends.

Arthurian literature talks us of a fair King that was determined to bring to Camelot the most sacred of all Christian relics, and following his will a knight of his court, Lancelot was sent to far lands to bring it.

Modern Historians (Littleton, Malcar, Malkova) have been established that King Arthur mythic character may have been Inspired in the Commander of the Roman legion sent to Britain, who happend to be he himself and his knights of Caucasian origin:

Scythians, Alans, and Sarmatian horse riders, mercenaries coming to serve Rome from the remote region between Georgia, Armenia, Russia, Azerbaijan and Turkey.

Please read
books.google.com...

is.muni.cz...

This is an important hint in this hypothesis since may explain the way the real Arthur, or one of his descendants, knew about the Shroud, who was for centuries kept in the city of Edessa located in that same region.

Was Lancelot a more recently developed character added to the Arthurian legend inspired in the Templar knights that traveled to Turkey from the Normand kingdoms of South England and North France during the fourth crusade? Were they tracing back much older oral traditions inherited from the Briton inhabitants of that coast?

Thanks

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 5/15/2017 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2017 @ 10:32 PM
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a reply to: The angel of light

Ahhhhh sorry I thought the post was completed.

Many thanks this will be enjoyable reading



posted on May, 15 2017 @ 02:53 AM
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Will return with more time but wanted to say thank you for your hard work and pleasant presentation.



a reply to: The angel of light




posted on May, 15 2017 @ 05:45 AM
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a reply to: The angel of light

Science says that the shroud cannot be authenticated....


www.livescience.com...
October 23, 2015 09:13am ET



Is it a medieval fake or a relic of Jesus Christ? A new analysis of DNA from the Shroud of Turin reveals that people from all over the world have touched the venerated garment. "Individuals from different ethnic groups and geographical locations came into contact with the Shroud[of Turin] either in Europe (France and Turin) or directly in their own lands of origin (Europe, northeast Africa, Caucasus, Anatolia, Middle East and India)," study lead author Gianni Barcaccia, a geneticist at the University of Padua in Italy and lead author of the new study describing the DNA analysis, said in an email. "We cannot say anything more on its origin."



posted on May, 15 2017 @ 07:14 AM
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I find the theory that the image on the shroud is that of Jacques de Molay quite compelling.



posted on May, 15 2017 @ 09:28 AM
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a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Well, with all respect it is certainly challenging, but impossible is a very strong statement, that is a highly controversial claim, perhaps politically biased as use to occur with this object.

First at all, it is always possible to move away from strong contamination factors by sampling it more scientifically, not in only one portion of of it, or perform these not invasive and not destructive tests.

The C14 of 1982 clearly ontradicts the one of 1988, a test that has been proved in 2007 was skewed due to a probable extremely contaminated sample.

Second even considering that only test with its unbelievable Variance in between one date and other, the most can be said is that does not look to have the radioactive carbon for first century.

Now to talk about why, and suggest is a medieval fake is not serious, certainly malicious and totally speculative, it is not scientific, just rumors.

Considering that:

1) This cloth has historic records supporting his existence even in times that precede the 1988 dates,
2)That was burnt in part in 3 accidental fires, splashed and stained with water,
3) exposed to smog of candles,
4) boiled in oil by skeptics,
5)touched with naked hands along centuries,
6) reweaven completely with much younger materials.
7) has bacteria living on it in tbeir own bioplastic film.
8) has certified buman blood in it and the image in it also has been established is not painted.

The logical explanation is contamination of the object that make it extremely difficult to be dated with C14.

I agree with the article you brought that it is a nightmare of contamination, and so its dating is a really complicate puzzle to solve.

Thanks

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 5/15/2017 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2017 @ 01:32 PM
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a reply to: The angel of light

These boys might know where it is.




posted on May, 18 2017 @ 01:53 PM
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a reply to: Profundity

Well, if somebody is wondering where is the actual cup used by Jesus in the last supper there is consensus among the majority of scholars that it is in the Cathedral of the city of Valencia in Spain, since the seventh century.

Please check
www.catedraldevalencia.es...

Now, the only three objects we know have human blood that is likely to be the one if Jesus Christ are the Holy Sudarium at Oviedo, Spain, the Holy blood in the napkin of Bruges Belgium and the Holy Shroud at Turin Italy.

Please check

www.atlasobscura.com...

www.ancient-origins.net...

The only one of these cloths stained with holy blood that we are certain beyond any doubt that was related with Joseph of Arimathea is the Holy Shroud, since he bought it for carry the corpse of Jesus to the Tomb.

Thanks

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 5/18/2017 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2017 @ 12:58 PM
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originally posted by: The angel of light

The only one of these cloths stained with holy blood that we are certain beyond any doubt that was related with Joseph of Arimathea is the Holy Shroud, since he bought it for carry the corpse of Jesus to the Tomb.

Thanks

The Angel of Lightness


We? Who are we?
You may need to revise your claim. As far as I understand, at this point, there is no universal agreement has been reached regarding The Shorud of Turin. Studies and debates are still going on. And there will be International Conference on the Shroud of Turin, Washington State, July 2017 . So hold your breath and in the mean time may be you should start reading this :

Shroud of Turin

And one of recent published study that cast doubt on the Shorud of Turin. I'm sure there are lot more. But I'm too exhausted to bother with non conclusive findings, ever since the shroud made it first highlight a decade ago.



The weave of the Tomb of the Shroud fabric, the new study says, casts further doubt on the Shroud of Turin as Jesus' burial cloth.

The newfound shroud was something of a patchwork of simply woven linen and wool textiles, the study found. The Shroud of Turin, by contrast, is made of a single textile woven in a complex twill pattern, a type of cloth not known to have been available in the region until medieval times, Gibson said.

Both the tomb's location and the textile offer evidence for the apparently elite status of the corpse, he added. The way the wool in the shroud was spun indicates it had been imported from elsewhere in the Mediterranean—something a wealthy Jerusalem family from this period would likely have done.




Assuming the new shroud typifies those used in Jerusalem during the time of Jesus, the researchers maintain that the Shroud of Turin could not have originated in the city.

That's perhaps a big assumption, given that there are no other known shrouds from the same place and time for comparison—though in one case clothing had been found in a Jerusalem tomb.

"There have now been only two cases of textiles discovered in Jewish burials from this period," said archaeologist Amos Kloner of Bar Ilan University. And both appear to contradict the idea that the Shroud of Turin is from Jesus-era Jerusalem.

As for the analysis of the newfound shroud, the researchers "checked their findings with the best experts, and this textile was found to be different [from the Shroud of Turin]," said Kloner, who was not involved in the new study, published today in the journal PLoS ONE.


Shroud of Turin Not Jesus', Tomb Discovery Suggests
edit on 15-6-2017 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2017 @ 02:28 PM
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a reply to: EasternShadow

I sincerely think you committed a kind of mistake, this is a serious thread about a relic that has been tested along decades and in 2014 finally a team of Scientists of three Italian Universities with centuries of prestige, Bologna U., Padova U. and Emilia U. have validated as actually coming from the first century.

The Holy Shroud has stains of actual human blood type AB that matches with the type of the Holy Sudarium of Oviedo and the Holy Napkin of Bruges.

Moreover the Holy Shroud kept in The Cathedral of St John the Baptist of Turin has the same blood stains shapes and distribution than the towel of Oviedo.

Besides that the weaven as well as the stitching of the Shroud correspond to other textiles known of that same time frame found in Masada and it is not a cheap burial cloth of it, as it is likely to be the one of the poor leper the Zionist Archaelogist you mention have found.

Please check

shroudstory.com...

Joseph of Arimathea was a prominent member of the Sanehedrin, as it was too Nicodemus, they were wealthy, so they bought in the market of Jerusalem the best quality of cloth brought from India to wrap Jesus body, after all they believed he was the actual Messiah sent by God.

Please check
shroudstory.com...

The news you are advertising means absolutely nothing with respect to Jesus and his Burial cloth. The only thing we can infer is that the leper possibly was a Farisee, since he died of that illness, if he had been Christian be should be healed by Jesus or his disciples.

Have a nice weekend!

Sorry but I am not interested to attend "Shroud" conferences arranged to discuss the burial cloth of a nobody by plotters in search of fame at expense of authenticated relics of actually somebody in History.

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 6/17/2017 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2017 @ 10:29 PM
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The peace of God to all that belong to the Light
Dear readers

There is a complete paper published about the so called Shroud Tomb found by these archelogists that were the same related to the " discovery " years ago of a other Jewish fsmy tomb if the first century that they claimed was the "actual sepulcre of Jesus".

These are not objective scientists they are fanatics Zionists trying to undermine the Faith of the people in Christ, they are also trying to gain fame and recognition at expense of Religion.

Here is the study that show they have found nothing conclusive at all, just bold conjectures.

www.acheiropoietos.info...

Thanks

The Angel of Lightness

edit on 6/17/2017 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2017 @ 11:16 PM
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originally posted by: The angel of light
a reply to: EasternShadow

I sincerely think you committed a kind of mistake, this is a serious thread about a relic that has been tested along decades and in 2014 finally a team of Scientists of three Italian Universities with centuries of prestige, Bologna U., Padova U. and Emilia U. have validated as actually coming from the first century.

No one argue it is coming from the first century. It's the origin and the image of the shroud that are both intensely studied and controversial. The subject of intense debate among theologians, historians and researchers.


originally posted by: The angel of light
The Holy Shroud has stains of actual human blood type AB that matches with the type of the Holy Sudarium of Oviedo and the Holy Napkin of Bruges.

Do we have verified Jesus's blood to compare with all those shrouds? We dont even know whether Jesus blood type is AB or not. Furthermore, Dr. Andrew Merriwether at State University of New York (SUNY) stated that it is almost certain that the flecks are blood, but that no definitive statements can be made about its nature or provenance, i.e., whether it is male or from the Near East. He also stated that no blood typing could be confirmed, as the DNA was badly fragmented.


originally posted by: The angel of light
Moreover the Holy Shroud kept in The Cathedral of St John the Baptist of Turin has the same blood stains shapes and distribution than the towel of Oviedo.

Skeptics also cite other forensic blood tests whose results dispute the authenticity of the Shroud, and point to the possibility that the blood could belong to a person handling the shroud, and that the apparent blood flows on the shroud are unrealistically neat.


originally posted by: The angel of light
Besides that the weaven as well as the stitching of the Shroud correspond to other textiles known of that same time frame found in Masada and it is not a cheap burial cloth of it, as it is likely to be the one of the poor leper the Zionist Archaelogist you mention have found.

Please check

shroudstory.com...
Joseph of Arimathea was a prominent member of the Sanehedrin, as it was too Nicodemus, they were wealthy, so they bought in the market of Jerusalem the best quality of cloth brought from India to wrap Jesus body, after all they believed he was the actual Messiah sent by God.

Please check
shroudstory.com...


Both samples weaven, found in Jerusalem and Masada, disapprove that the Shroud of Turin originated from Jerusalem. Let alone from India.


In 2000, fragments of a burial shroud from the 1st century were discovered in a tomb near Jerusalem, believed to have belonged to a Jewish high priest or member of the aristocracy. The shroud was composed of a simple two-way weave, unlike the complex herringbone twill of the Turin Shroud. Based on this discovery, the researchers stated that the Turin Shroud did not originate from Jesus-era Jerusalem.[103][104][105]

According to textile expert Mechthild Flury-Lemberg of Hamburg, a seam in the cloth corresponds to a fabric found at the fortress of Masada near the Dead Sea, which dated to the 1st century. The weaving pattern, 3:1 twill, is consistent with first-century Syrian design, according to the appraisal of Gilbert Raes of the Ghent Institute of Textile Technology in Belgium. Flury-Lemberg stated: "The linen cloth of the Shroud of Turin does not display any weaving or sewing techniques which would speak against its origin as a high-quality product of the textile workers of the first century."[106]

en.wikipedia.org...


originally posted by: The angel of light
The news you are advertising means absolutely nothing with respect to Jesus and his Burial cloth. The only thing we can infer is that the leper possibly was a Farisee, since he died of that illness, if he had been Christian be should be healed by Jesus or his disciples.

The burial cloth itself is a comparison evidence that the Shroud of Turin was NOT a Jerusalem 1st Century product.


originally posted by: The angel of light
Sorry but I am not interested to attend "Shroud" conferences arranged to discuss the burial cloth of a nobody by plotters in search of fame at expense of authenticated relics of actually somebody in History.

I'm not expecting you to be interested. It's seem, you are more interested in fiction fabricated by Robert de Boron. But then again this is Urban Legends and Folk Tales section. Everything is fictional. So I guess your intake on Robert de Boron's Legendary King Arthur and the Holy Grail does has some merit. I will not interrupt you anymore.


originally posted by: The angel of light
Have a nice weekend!
The Angel of Lightness

You too.

edit on 17-6-2017 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-6-2017 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)



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