NEWS: Forced Prostitution in Germany

In Germany women are facing the choice of taking a job providing "sexual services" or recieving a cut in their unemployment benefits. Under welfare reform laws, all woman under the age of 55 and out of work for over a year might face this same choice. Germany legalised prostitution in 2002 and have said that employment in brothels cannot be refused on moral grounds.



This seems pretty absurd to me. No woman should be forced to take a job in the sex industry, especially by the state. Even if the job were only acting as a phone-sex operator that's still something that many women wouldn't want to do. And I do think that many women that are facing this might have to choose a job they don't want over losing benefits.

I'm all for legalizing prostitution, but it's one profession that someone should be allowed to abstain from for at the very least moral grounds.

Related News Links:
www.theage.com .au
www.telegraphindia.com

They aren't being forced into it.
They can choose to refuse the job and look for work elsewhere, they just wont be getting money from the government while they're looking.

One year of unemployment benefits is already generous, it's more than double what they give in the US.
They should cut off benefits after one year regardless of whether they turn down a job or not.

[edit on 30-1-2005 by AceOfBase]

It does sound like an obscure way to force women to look for normal jobs. To us here in North America anyway...

I also doubt married or women other wise in a relationship will be picked but this is still pretty sick...

BUT, We here in Holland might see the same thing happen, I am on wealthfare and I am on it for longer than a year, but they will find a job for me sooner or later, if I like it or not, but I suppose If I say I am not up to a certain job, they'd look further.

But that's Holland, Germany has different policies...

Right, and how many women can't lose those benefits and will have to take a job in the "sex services" industry? I'm sure more than one single mother of two with no one to turn to and little skill will given the choice of no money or a job they really, really don't want, will take the job. That's being forced into it in my book.

And what does the US's unemployment benefits have to do with this? At all? Because I'm American and posted a story about a bad German policy I have to be shown that the US sucks compared to what's going on the article? Neat, that's a new idea on ATS!

For a time you could apply for an extension of I believe 12 weeks here. And with the unemployment rate in Germany at a sixty year high, they should get more benefits than the US (if you believe the state should be doling out money at all). No American can be forced into taking a job in the sex industries or lose their benefits either. Which is what the story is about.

Originally posted by PistolPete
Right, and how many women can't lose those benefits and will have to take a job in the "sex services" industry? I'm sure more than one single mother of two with no one to turn to and little skill will given the choice of no money or a job they really, really don't want, will take the job. That's being forced into it in my book.

And what does the US's unemployment benefits have to do with this? At all? Because I'm American and posted a story about a bad German policy I have to be shown that the US sucks compared to what's going on the article? Neat, that's a new idea on ATS!

For a time you could apply for an extension of I believe 12 weeks here. And with the unemployment rate in Germany at a sixty year high, they should get more benefits than the US (if you believe the state should be doling out money at all). No American can be forced into taking a job in the sex industries or lose their benefits either. Which is what the story is about.

....So Los Alamos is creating new life forms while living children starve and their mothers are forced to work as prostitutes....

Who wrote this script?

This title is missleading and just wrong. Get your facts straight and go away with your or a newspapers missinterpretation of things you/they aren't capable to understand.

People like SecretAgentL already believe that woman here in Germany are forced to do so, just because of your article. Wow!

That's the American/British way of disinformation I hate so much.


For those who love to understand things:
It just means that somebody who tries to hire a woman for a strip-bar can ask the "Arbeitsamt" for help. They will then sort out if there are womans who want to work in such businesses.
For sure no woman that lost her job and looks for a new one, would be forced or loose any benefit because she would refuse to work in any job like that - in fact such a woman will never be offered such a job!

Somehow this news represents the forums intellectual level. Poor!

I agree that this is a big mistake and very wrong. To begin with, I think we all know the difference between a brothel and a bar. That's pretty easy to describe verbaly. I'll spare you that!!! I think that's a horrid, lazy excuse from these legislagators. And by the way, it IS Horrible to do this to women,...but who says that men are excluded?

well shoo if you read your governments own bills you'd see it is true(the hartz IV bill), you can be forced into any job if you want even minimal benefits.

even german experts on the german constitution argue the hartz IV bill violates 10 paragraphs of the constitution.

Originally posted by namehere
even german experts on the german constitution argue the hartz IV bill violates 10 paragraphs of the constitution.

Is there any judicial review of laws that may violate the German constitution? Also how bad is the job market in Germany if a waitress can't find work in over a year?

B.

.
I think prostitution should be legal, this does bring up two troubling points.

The first is obvious to most people, forcing someone to accept sex work, I think some kind of exception for sex worker [which is NOT hard to differentiate from a Bar] may be in order.

The second point which most people are BLIND to is "is it really the state's duty/obligation to provide unemployment benefits anyway?"

If you are going to endorse Socialist policies, unemployment insurance [and I am not necessarily criticizing them] shouldn't you accept the associated dictates of that same government?
.

Info on the laws allowing workers to be forced into any legal job in Germany:
en.wikipedia.org...
www.wsws.org...

Bleys

not sure, i'll look, hard to find german documents in english.

its about 10% overall unemployment, higher in the east.

Originally posted by Bleys Also how bad is the job market in Germany if a waitress can't find work in over a year?

From the article, it doesn't seem as if she was an unemployed waitress but rather an unemployed IT worker who was working as a waitress until she found a proper job.

"The waitress, an unemployed information technology professional, had said that she was willing to work in a bar at night and had worked in a cafe."

Thank you Ace.

This whole story is just weird and makes me wonder how much we don't know. If someone is offered employment at a brothel - couldn't they perform services as receptionist, maid, etc. Does it have to actually be prostitution?

I'm all for legalized prostitution but it should always be on the individuals own terms not someone elses, let alone the government.

b

[edit on 1/30/05 by Bleys]

It doesn't matter what the woman in this article is doing! The point is that in Germany, you can lose benefits by refusing to work in the sex industry as stated:

The government had considered making brothels an exception on moral grounds, but decided that it would be too difficult to distinguish them from bars. As a result, job centres must treat employers looking for a prostitute in the same way as those looking for a dental nurse.

When the waitress looked into suing the job centre, she found out that it had not broken the law. Job centres that refuse to penalise people who turn down a job by cutting their benefits face legal action from the potential employer.

This is not good for the unemployed German woman that cannot find a job in a miserable economy. Just as long as this isn't happening in the US I guess it's acceptable.

So what if this is a rare occurence? No woman should have to face this kind of choice.

The only reason why prostitution is not legal across most of the world is because most of society is so wrapped up on a Judeo-Christain ethic that prostitution is demonized in the eyes of most people.

Just goes to show you how religion does run the world.

Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo

I am on wealthfare and I am on it for longer than a year, but they will find a job for me sooner or later, if I like it or not, but I suppose If I say I am not up to a certain job, they'd look further.

And people wonder why Americans consider europeans lazy?
Ground Zero - why does the government have to fnd you a job? Are you incapable of finding one yourself? I am pretty sure from my frequent visits to Amsterdam (4-5 times a year) that they have classfieds and help wanted sections in the newspapers.
If you have been out of work for a year don't you want a job? Does it bother you to be living on other peoples money?
This is why I am so dead set against socialism.
It IMHO robs people of ambition and self reliance. And it would seem that in germany at least, it also opens the door to government control of your profession.
When the government does everything for you, you lose the abillity to do for yourself.

Originally posted by Simulacra
The only reason why prostitution is not legal across most of the world is because most of society is so wrapped up on a Judeo-Christain ethic that prostitution is demonized in the eyes of most people.

Just goes to show you how religion does run the world.

From someone who is secular all I have to say to this statement is read the following from www.hrw.org, this is why prostitution is illegal:

Campaign against the Trafficking of Women and Girls

"Trafficking in persons — the illegal and highly profitable recruitment, transport, or sale of human beings for the purpose of exploiting their labor — is a slavery-like practice that must be eliminated. The trafficking of women and children into bonded sweatshop labor, forced marriage, forced prostitution, domestic servitude, and other kinds of work is a global phenomenon. Traffickers use coercive tactics including deception, fraud, intimidation, isolation, threat and use of physical force, and/or debt bondage to control their victims. Women are typically recruited with promises of good jobs in other countries or provinces, and, lacking better options at home, agree to migrate. Through agents and brokers who arrange the travel and job placements, women are escorted to their destinations and delivered to the employers. Upon reaching their destinations, some women learn that they have been deceived about the nature of the work they will do; most have been lied to about the financial arrangements and conditions of their employment; and all find themselves in coercive and abusive situations from which escape is both difficult and dangerous."

www.hrw.org...
www.hrw.org...

Originally posted by Narnia
read the following from www.hrw.org, this is why prostitution is illegal:

That trafficing is already happeing in countries where prostitution is illegal.
I've even heard reports of women getting arrested on prostitution charges after trying to get help.

One of the reasons Germany legalized it was to "help to combat trafficking in women and cut links to organised crime."