Why do we need a Social Security Number?

a reply to: OneGoal

"Gathering information on an individual." And to what depth...

your guess is as good as mine, but think about how many forms you fill out that request your Social Security Number.

a reply to: Stevemagegod

I could see not having your SSN memorized if you've never had a job and never filled out a loan application - though some people just aren't wired to memorize numbers easily.

That said, the need for SSN in this case could have to do with authentication (database cross-references to help ensure you are who you say you are), verification of citizenship, etc.

As for taking tests in significantly less time than allowed, I've always taken tests extremely quickly. I'm not a genius, I just read quickly and don't really have to spend much time thinking of the answers. You know it or you don't. Plus, I could never stand taking a long time to take tests. It was in the interest of my sanity to knock them out quickly and get the # out.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

I was born before 1972 and was unaware it had changed. I guess with the advent of the computer age it was easier to track numbers based on digital record rather than an analog numerical code. When I grew up it was the SS number showing where you were born and the DL showing the year of your birth. It was general knowledge back then.

a reply to: Stevemagegod

That identifies you at 1st as a living individual, takes witholding taxes from your entire lifetime of working to pay you income at either ages 60, 62, 65, 66 now or at 70. As long as that person works...the funds witheld from your lifetime of jobs goes into that acct# to pay that person.

Also, anyone can use or change their name to anything. Like I use 3...all legally, but am identified 100% by my birthname and its social security #...and that is my legal, real, birth and married name-mortage, car, credit card and bank accts.

2. Im internationally known quite well by my stage name used for 50 years in Rock and Roll...but royalties go into my legal name and S.S.#'s acct....even though "GOGGLNG" me by it will turn up a whole 1st page and 2-3 more...entirely mine-me-but royalties and trademark $$$$ goes into my real S.S.#.

3. Lastly..."MYSTERIOUSTRANGER" is my name here. And if I somehow made money here...it too would go into my real # acct.

Marriage, CPL, Marijuana, divorce, birth, death, mortgage, job apps. and passport i.d's all use your number to prove its you. And now a days...you are usually asked for just the last 4#s when asked to prove its really you for some reason.

*Simple example? Say you are "Jim Smith"....with a few million with that name worldwide....which one is you and the right "Jim Smith"???

Soon we will be asking why we need a chip inserted into our bodies.

originally posted by: Stevemagegod
So i just got done taking a big Police state exam and they wanted to know my SS number. However on the test they called it your "Personal Identification Number". This is a serious question. Why do they call it your personal identification number if it isn't even on your state issued driver's license.? I didn't know it because i almost never use it so it was kinda embarrassing but hey the state #ed up to with a big typo saying everyone needed a calculator in caps and then say we dont need it. What's the point of giving your name, house address,photo id, and phone number if that doesn't even identify you to the people who grade these tests. ? BUT im glad i wasn't the only one hahah. I thought I did well on the test lots of reading comprehension and sentence structure understanding. But i dont get how some people can take a 6 hour test and finish it in 1 hour no way they read everything and understood it. Unless they guessed. Its also easy to ignore people who laugh at ya when you dont know anyone in the room hahah. Also someone farted to and I almost wanted to be the person to yell out who the # did a silent but deadly fart? Since i didnt know it they just put 555-555-555 down.

If you're familiar with databases, you'll probably notice that pretty much every table has a key in the index that's a number that can be sorted sequentially. This is essentially the purpose of your SSN. It's a way for the federal government to maintain information on you. It was never supposed to be used as a form of identification, only as a reference number to find or store information. But, people misuse it all over the place.

There's actually a fairly solid mathematical argument that the SSN needs to go away, because the government mismanaged it. The number has a form: 3 digits, 2 digits, 4 digits. The three digits belong to certain state districts, the 2 identify the hospital you were born in, in that district, and then the 4 digits are your birth number in that hospital. Once all 10,000 in one are used up, another is created. So basically, if you have the tables memorized, simply giving your SSN can tell where you were born, and roughly when you were born.

This is actually a pretty big security issue though, because using these two facts, as well as striking out dead numbers (all numbers of the deceased are made public to prevent identity theft) you can actually match names in a phone book to local SSN's with a pretty high degree of accuracy. I read a paper on this years ago, and even tried it myself last year. I was able to get 2.5% accuracy (meaning, I could fairly easily generate a list of identifying information+correct ssn's for about 8 million people), the experts were able to get 9%. In the 90's the process was finally reformed so this can't happen to new numbers, but that doesn't do the rest of us any good.

Also, I'm a pretty fast test taker. I'm a perpetual college student (ends next year though hopefully). I take a lot of tests, they're usually designed to take 2 hours. I'm typically done in 10 minutes. My entire life, I've always been the first to finish a test. I read every question too, and I don't leave any blank. I'm just a good test taker.

To get back to your point though. The information you provide all ends up as either keys in a database, or just in tables in the database to be queried. Credit works on the same system, and because the credit bureau's often link people by name, it's relatively common for people with the same name to wind up with each others charges on their credit reports. SSN's are unique so that doesn't happen as much.

But, we should do away with SSN's. Create a new number system, and this time do it properly.

originally posted by: Tardacus
I think that your SS number is a fairly secure federal government issued ID number, the fed doesn`t issue the same number to any 2 people each person has a unique number,even people with the same names have unique numbers.

Sort of. Social Security would be secure if we kept to using it the way it was intended, but I can't tell you how many employment applications I've filled out (among other stuff) that use the SSN as a method for identification. It's pretty insecure in that regard now.

More importantly though, all numbers are issued according to a predefined pattern, which makes it pretty easy to reverse sets of numbers to the names of people. The government even provides a handy website where you can batch check names and numbers and see if they're correct.

It is extremely insecure. State ID numbers are much more secure.

SS Numbers

a reply to: Stevemagegod

It is your tax I.D. number.

Don't you know that you are a corporation.

That's why corporations can vote.

a reply to: BlueAjah

Bingo.

Given that it was a state police exam, I will guess that you are applying to become an officer and go to the academy. In the packet there should have been a FBI background permission slip type of form or a mention that one would be performed. Either way, the fact that you are taking the test will be placed in your file whether you are accepted, offered a position or you ultimately decline an offer.

The FBI can take any number of identifying informormation and spit out your file pretty quickly. Using a SS number is the fastest. Some jobs that require a background check fax over the form and receive the requests "public" information in a few days for most people. If you have had numerous jobs requiring it or obtained a standard significant file or been awarded a security clearance, the employer request could be returned in less than an hour.

All that said, good luck and watch your six when you get out there.

a reply to: Stevemagegod

"Why do we need a Social Security Number?"

So we can be tagged, taxed and managed accordingly. Humanity in its present condition is nothing more than a herd of cattle with a similar mentality to boot.

"They" are perfectly aware of this fact hence there need for such identification measures as social security/national insurance numbers which essentially amount to a brand.

a reply to: Stevemagegod

So they can add up your work credits for retirement. You'll need 55 to qualify. Averaging 2 per year. And likewise... to determine your taxable income and net wages...
Its really a cool system. Get started now asap. Early retirement is glorious.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

the ssn's never showed where you were born.

my father was born in Georgia in 1940, he didn't get a ssn until he started working in fl when 15, my mother was born in Mississippi 1944, didn't get hers until she was 22 and started working. i and my brothers where born in Florida in the 60's. i and my middle brother didn't get ours until we were teens and started working.
all five of us have ssn's that the first three are with in a couple of numbers of one another.
the first three numbers show the area where issued not where born. none of the numbers on the card are related to where born, they are for where issued.
if you read and understood the articles it plainly says that the numbers were issued from the local offices in the area you were in. ie if you were born in GA. and applied for a card in FL you got your card from Fl.

IThe 3-digit area number is assigned by geographic region.

During the initial registration in 1936 and 1937, businesses with branches throughout the country had employees return their SS-5 Application for Account Number to their national headquarters, so these SSNs carried the area number where the headquarters were located. As a result, the area numbers assigned to big cities, such as New York, Philadelphia, Boston, and Chicago, were used for workers in many other parts of the country (McKinley and Frase 1970, 373). Also, a worker could apply in person for a card in any Social Security office, and the area number would reflect that office's location, regardless of the worker's residence.

in 1972 they started issuing them from Baltimore, and were issued based on the postal zip codes of the address given on the application form. in 2007 they started issuing them randomly from the available numbers.
they never issued them based on where you were born. although they did implement a issue at birth option, it's still not done on where born, but zip code, and is still voluntary at the time or you can wait.

here is a PDF on that, warning it opens when you click it.
Social Security Numbers for Children

It was general knowledge back then.

that was / is a urban legend.

also even though off topic some, here is a interesting fact. there is no 666 series of first three numbers. i wonder why the government doesn't use that number.

It is your Federal Reserve Bank account number.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

It was what we knew because it was correct more often than not. The numbers are traced to the office that issued them. Since most people get an SS number fairly soon after birth it makes sense that the issuing office would be, or at least near to, the birthplace. There were exceptions to the rule even at the origin of the SSA. We knew that also. It may not have been a hard fast rule with the SSA, but it was no less true for the majority of us who lived it. In the end, an identifier need only be unique to an individual. Any additional information that can be derived from the number is a bonus. In the digital age we don't really need the number to do all the work. Its point and click now. One click and all the information you want is there. Throughout my career, part of which included data/document control, I watched document numbers get more and more complicated to the point of exhaustion and futility only to see them regress to simply being unique. Additional layers of information were too easily reached to necessitate complex nomenclature. Change is inevitable.